Ragnarok Announcement

[WorldConqueror]

Much like NPO called Polaris brothers for so long

Oh hey, you missed the point too. Congrats.

For once I'm not shouting nasty things from under my bridge, I was saying that it was interesting that it was now, at this time of tension, when the MHA-RoK relationship starts being touted as 'brotherly'. It has never been spoken of in this way before, there has been no indications of them getting closer, and yet here it is. It may be completely coincidental, it may not be. I'm not making a judgement about that, just stating an observation. Geddit?

[Bob Janova]

I think it's a personal Crush thing, not an alliance relations thing – although 'Aqua brothers' as you pointed out yourself is a well known theme.

[camerontech]

Wow my post couldn't be more misunderstood if I typed it in Latin... I believe we will soon see some additional information regarding this matter.

But by all means bring on the opposing opinions!

So, are you suggesting then that there's information yet to be released that will enlighten us on this subject? If that's the case I would release it sooner rather than later, or else the opposing opinions will just get louder and more believable.

[Lazarus Grant]

If you discount all the people in Ragnarok (including yourself), SF and Hoo's various social circles as well, then you can discount ADI members. Personally, I believe that just because someone has a bias doesn't mean you can't make a good point, and you made absolutely no effort to address ss's points.

Neither side of the argument really makes sense. Why would Hoo 'unsay' that line and then come to OWF? Well, perhaps as damage limitation, if the real logs were already being circulated and he thought that the extra exposure of the rest of the log was less damaging than having the 'running you from the game' line out there and unchallanged. Why would Warbuck add that line before circulating the logs? Perhaps, in a fit of pique, he wanted to make Hoo look a little worse – though the unchallenged part of the logs already does that, so he would have had to be not thinking rationally to think it was a good idea.

Both sides are roughly equally plausible, and people are going to believe the person they like the best in that sort of situation. The really amusing thing of course is that it doesn't matter – what Hoo definitely said about IRON and CDT being enemies of RoK and that not looking likely to change is much more interesting than a line that was either said or fabricated in a moment of anger.

Bob Janova's argument is the most rational. Rather than choosing sides, he has determined that RoK and ADI perspectives are both biased and that this issue doesn't really matter.

My bias, of course, is that Warbuck didn't fake the logs. Anyone who knows Warbuck knows that his specialty is not computers and he would not know how to fake logs (no offense to Warbuck). This is also revealed in the logs that Hoo released at the beginning of the thread and lends credibility to Warbuck's statements.

If I had made comments in a moment of anger about wiping out an alliance and they appeared on the OWF, I would want them to disappear too. I see this as damage control on the part of either Hoo and/or Hoo's friends. No one has come out with a truly logical scenario for why Warbuck would want to fake anything.

[Cobalt]

Has anyone considered that warbuck wasnt the one who changed it? Anyone who he leaked the logs to could have added it in order to make the logs seem more important. (although resorting to hacking claims does in my mind put more suspicion on warbuck)

Wow, someone thinking rationally and considering realistic scenarios ("zomg they hacked my irc logs!!!!!" doesn't quite cut it). Somehow I get the feeling this is what happened.

Really, the only thing we do know is that Warbuck had to have leaked the logs initially, as it seems Hoo sure as heck wouldn't have disseminated that conversation out of the goodness of his heart, regardless of "the line"s existence.

[GoldenAura]

Anyone who was good at editing would know not to add a space before that last line.

Then again the "faked these logs should be ashamed" could be reflected to events in the recent past.

[Krack]

Bob Janova's argument is the most rational. Rather than choosing sides, he has determined that RoK and ADI perspectives are both biased and that this issue doesn't really matter.

If someone faked logs to try and make Hoo look bad, it matters.

If Hoo falsely accused someone of faking logs to mask comments he wished hadn't been made public, it matters.

One of these two things is true, so following the basic rules of If-Then statements, the issue matters.

Now, the important question is, of course: Is anyone on either side willing to do anything about it other than point fingers? My guess is "no".

/no dog in the fight

[DragonMage018]

Even Londo from Athens can fake logs... Why can't you?

[Lusitan]

I'll correct that one. NATO wasn't chased out, we left. It was the day you came to me and said RoK was leaving because the bloc was too much of a NATO bloc, at least by reputation. I offered a solution that we would leave, so that the remaining members (including RoK, as you agreed to stay, at least a while) could build up its own identity. I have no idea what happened after we left or if there was any attempt to control CDT by RoK.

In my honest opinion there were two big mistakes whose consequences ended up chaining for CDT 2008. First was letting Ragnarok in - this one we couldn't have foreseen - second was letting BDC in.

[Van Hoo III]

So, are you suggesting then that there's information yet to be released that will enlighten us on this subject? If that's the case I would release it sooner rather than later, or else the opposing opinions will just get louder and more believable.

Warbuck approached us and wanted to know how he could fix this and improve his relationship with Ragnarok. He spoke to a few of our members in private and they advised him that it would go a long way in our eyes if he'd admit to what he knows and stop lying about it. He agreed to do so and then had me brought into the channel. We ironed everything out in regard to past miscommunication and I told him we can re-new our treaty if he just comes clean about his dishonesty. He agreed to do so in public several days ago.

Warbuck maintains that he himself did not fake the logs, but that he knew they were edited. He admitted that he did not bother to check them when I approached him due to his anger with me personally. He has since continued to tell his alliance that he told the truth and that the logs are indeed real.

Since Warbuck never went public, I have no choice but to do so for him and end this.

Screenshots of our conversations:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs5.jpg <--- admission that the logs are fake.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs6.jpg <--- further admission and showing us the rough draft of his future OWF post.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs7.jpg <--- full disclosure.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[von Metternich]

Warbuck approached us and wanted to know how he could fix this and improve his relationship with Ragnarok. He spoke to a few of our members in private and they advised him that it would go a long way in our eyes if he'd admit to what he knows and stop lying about it. He agreed to do so and then had me brought into the channel. We ironed everything out in regard to past miscommunication and I told him we can re-new our treaty if he just comes clean about his dishonesty. He agreed to do so in public several days ago.

Warbuck maintains that he himself did not fake the logs, but that he knew they were edited. He admitted that he did not bother to check them when I approached them due to his anger with me personally. He has since continued to tell his alliance that he told the truth and that the logs are indeed real.

Since Warbuck never went public, I have no choice but to do so for him and end this.

Screenshots of our conversations:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs5.jpg <--- admission that the logs are fake.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs6.jpg <--- further admission and shwoing us the rough draft of his future OWF post.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs7.jpg <--- full disclosure.

w00t w00t

[SpiderJerusalem]

Warbuck approached us and wanted to know how he could fix this and improve his relationship with Ragnarok. He spoke to a few of our members in private and they advised him that it would go a long way in our eyes if he'd admit to what he knows and stop lying about it. He agreed to do so and then had me brought into the channel. We ironed everything out in regard to past miscommunication and I told him we can re-new our treaty if he just comes clean about his dishonesty. He agreed to do so in public several days ago.

Warbuck maintains that he himself did not fake the logs, but that he knew they were edited. He admitted that he did not bother to check them when I approached him due to his anger with me personally. He has since continued to tell his alliance that he told the truth and that the logs are indeed real.

Since Warbuck never went public, I have no choice but to do so for him and end this.

Screenshots of our conversations:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs5.jpg <--- admission that the logs are fake.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs6.jpg <--- further admission and showing us the rough draft of his future OWF post.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs7.jpg <--- full disclosure.

So, where are the critics now?

Game, set and match

[KaitlinK]

Warbuck approached us and wanted to know how he could fix this and improve his relationship with Ragnarok. He spoke to a few of our members in private and they advised him that it would go a long way in our eyes if he'd admit to what he knows and stop lying about it. He agreed to do so and then had me brought into the channel. We ironed everything out in regard to past miscommunication and I told him we can re-new our treaty if he just comes clean about his dishonesty. He agreed to do so in public several days ago.

Warbuck maintains that he himself did not fake the logs, but that he knew they were edited. He admitted that he did not bother to check them when I approached him due to his anger with me personally. He has since continued to tell his alliance that he told the truth and that the logs are indeed real.

Since Warbuck never went public, I have no choice but to do so for him and end this.

Screenshots of our conversations:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs5.jpg <--- admission that the logs are fake.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs6.jpg <--- further admission and showing us the rough draft of his future OWF post.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x213/Ka...arbucklogs7.jpg <--- full disclosure.

Its ADI's membership I feel bad for. They came on here and vigorously supported their leader Warbuck because they believed him.

[camerontech]

The truth will set you free...

Although it took long enough.

[Chief Savage Man]

Glad to see this resolved.

[KaitlinK]

The truth will set you free...

Although it took long enough.

We wanted to give Warbuck EVERY oppertunity and the time to come clean on his own, that was 5 days ago. It is regretable that he lacked the integrity to do so after he assured us he would.

[wolverines1]

We wanted to give Warbuck EVERY oppertunity and the time to come clean on his own, that was 5 days ago. It is regretable that he lacked the integrity to do so after he assured us he would.

Understandable. But what next?

[Locke]

The story+logs

May want to edit that into the OP for easy reference and such.

[Van Hoo III]

Understandable. But what next?

As far as RoK goes, we are done with ADI as long as Warbuck calls the shots. Everyone who believed it, used it as a rallying cry, or are allies to ADI will believe what they want and make up their own minds. We, however, are vindicated.

May want to edit that into the OP for easy reference and such.

Good idea. Done.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[wickedj]

Guess someone wasnt ready to play in the big kids sandbox.. ah well that'll teach ya

Also, Hoo update your sig...its kind of PAST christmas

[steodonn]

Understandable. But what next?

Hoo is innocent and don't trust ADI mostly Warbuck

[Valtamdraugr]

In the words of a wise man from another plane of existence...

"Est Sularus Oth Mithas." - My honor is my life.

There is a place in the afterlife for oath-breakers and once the word is tarnished, it is very difficult, sometimes impossible, to redeem its luster.

I choose to stand by the word of Hoo as it is an extension of his honor. Again, it is proven to me to be an erstwhile endeavor.

Hotter than fire between bad friends

burns affection for five days;

but it dies down when the sixth day comes,

and all that friendship goes to the bad.

-Hávamál

o/ Hoo

edit:spelling

Edited January 4, 2010 by Valtamdraugr

[von Metternich]

nvm. check Warbuck's post below.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Famzy

[John Warbuck]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/j...pg?t=1262644556

That is all I have to say....

Edited January 4, 2010 by John Warbuck

[von Metternich]

***WARNING! WARNING***

TWIST IN THE PLOT