Commisar Gaunt Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 As I said the only case that could try to be made for spying would be Athens accepting info on TPF. Not that most would consider that a valid CB but, it is far more than TPF ever did to Athens. TPF helped to facilitate the creation of an alliance meant to spy on and destabilize both Athens and RoK. I'm pretty sure that counts for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The issue is the sides are set, there is no one to be swayed in this arena, and everyone is going to do their best to rip on the people who are on the other side. Not entirely correct. With every baiting post and thread you produce, you lose some of your previous aurora with certain niche of CN rulers. You worked hard for it, dunno why you are wasting it so easily. Why the thread, seriously? You have nothing to gain with this poking of TPF's allies any longer, only to lose. As such my previous question, are you a bit nervous now,..I mean TPF's allies are taking some time,...could be some shady business you didn't foresee,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 MK has never spied on another alliance in the sense I am talking about (as in infiltrating another alliances private forums)So you are saying that if MK were to place spies in NPO when they are at war, but stop right before the war does, NPO would be unable to use that as a CB? Good thing The TPF never placed spies in Athens. OH SNAP!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramaus Katan Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 One of the things that gets me is folks trying to say this is 'Karma', and that they are just like the 'hegemony'.Karma was a loose alliance of alliances for war-time purposes...against something that annoyed the crud out of many of them for a long time. Nothing more. And not all of the alliances who fought with them considered themselves a part of Karma. Same with the hegemony that is spoken of. So just drop the bs, k? Agreeing with this. Also, Karma was named in order to imply that the atrocities of the hegemony were being repaid. So Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) OWF is always like that. I don't agree with that. Most of the time people are up in the air, like we had before this kicked off. The sides don't end up as obvious as they are in this conversation until a war kicks off. Edited December 30, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bros Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Good thing The TPF never placed spies in Athens. OH SNAP!. They attempted to, which is still a valid CB by the precedents set in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alter Leader Nabla Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 They attempted to, which is still a valid CB by the precedents set in the past. the precedents you claimed to be wrong? BAZINGA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterana Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm not mad. In fact my feelings are mostly humour at watching karma supporters all run around like headless chickens furiously trying to defend each other from legitimate criticism. You all know that CB is rubbish, but either hate TPF too much to care or have to keep up the lies to support your allies. The only negative emotion is seeing what this farce is doing to TPF. If TPF had really spied in cahoots with ZH, then why aren't you also hitting ZH? They are the ones who apparently actually did the deed? Just as guilty, so explain why they're getting off scott free. Are any karma apologists going to answer my question from page 2 or 3? I bolded it so you can read it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 They attempted to, which is still a valid CB by the precedents set in the past. And what happened to the actual spies? Thats right they are under the protection of Athens. If you gotta kill one you gotta kill the other as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 They attempted to, which is still a valid CB by the precedents set in the past. Really think before you post stuff like that lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bros Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) the precedents you claimed to be wrong?BAZINGA When were these precedents claimed to be wrong? Spying is spying whether you succeed or not Edited December 30, 2009 by bros2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 When were these precedents claimed to be wrong?Spying is spying whether you succeed or not Good thing we agree, now go declare on ZH, the actual spies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strykewolf Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Are any karma apologists going to answer my question from page 2 or 3? I bolded it so you can read it easier. The answer is that there is no 'Karma'. Thus, you'll likely recieve no answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DictatatorDan Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 As far as I read, this thread has loads of FAIL in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commisar Gaunt Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Are any karma apologists going to answer my question from page 2 or 3? I bolded it so you can read it easier. ZH was created to spy and destabilize, but as we've found out recently after the falling out between ZH and mhawk that goal was mostly abandoned by ZH. In an attempt to come clean, ZH revealed their origins to Athens. As they gave up their original goal in destabilizing and weakening Athens or RoK, they were able to help Athens and RoK identify who wanted them to come to such harm in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 They attempted to, which is still a valid CB by the precedents set in the past. I would agree that their actions would warrant a war if they carried out the operation recently during peacetime. However, this operation occurred six months ago during a seemingly endless war. It was also discontinued as soon as the war was over. This does not warrant a war. Does this mean it was the right thing to do? No, but steps should have been taken to contact TPF about the issue before declaring war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Are any karma apologists going to answer my question from page 2 or 3? I bolded it so you can read it easier. I don't see what the "apologists" of a war-time coalition from a long-gone conflict have to do with this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustakrakish II Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Thank you sir! This was exactly what I was going to say, but now I no longer need to. Karma existed in the war, and now it exists only in the mind of the sore losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I don't see what the "apologists" of a war-time coalition from a long-gone conflict have to do with this discussion. You would say that CoaLUEtion sympathiser! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterana Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 ZH was created to spy and destabilize, but as we've found out recently after the falling out between ZH and mhawk that goal was mostly abandoned by ZH. In an attempt to come clean, ZH revealed their origins to Athens. As they gave up their original goal in destabilizing and weakening Athens or RoK, they were able to help Athens and RoK identify who wanted them to come to such harm in the first place. So, you do have actual evidence that TPF continued the program after ZH dropped it before the war was over, and continued to try to 'hurt' Athens while under surrender terms and beyond? Good, a link to it would be nice. Otherwise, ZH are just as involved, and just as guilty as TPF, whether they 'came clean' or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bros Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Good thing we agree, now go declare on ZH, the actual spies. They were not the spies. They were founded for the sole purpose of spying on Athens. They were to report to TPF. TPF came up with the idea to spy, therefore they are responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 ZH was created to spy and destabilize, but as we've found out recently after the falling out between ZH and mhawk that goal was mostly abandoned by ZH. In an attempt to come clean, ZH revealed their origins to Athens. As they gave up their original goal in destabilizing and weakening Athens or RoK, they were able to help Athens and RoK identify who wanted them to come to such harm in the first place. And there in lies the load of bull, this was made up to attack TPF, other wise you would be in the same boat. Cowards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 It's pleasing to know that you would consider it acceptable for a foreign entity to introduce agents within The Sasori Initiative with express orders to destabilise the alliance and disperse sensitive information. Why are you starting a whole new scenerio? None of that happened. No one claims it did. Not even Athens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alter Leader Nabla Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 When were these precedents claimed to be wrong?Spying is spying whether you succeed or not They attempted to, which is still a valid CB by the precedents set in the past. bolded, italicized and underlined the different components of the sentence sothat you can see that nowhere you said "Spying is spying whether you succeed or not" or even implied it. God damn it, there's really a linguistic problem with you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 They were not the spies.They were founded for the sole purpose of spying on Athens. They were to report to TPF. TPF came up with the idea to spy, therefore they are responsible. Keep telling yourself that. Obviously this discussion cannot be continued if you wont even recognise ZH as partners in crime. Good day to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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