Dark Fist's reponse to NSO

[llamavore]

thanks for clarifying. now allow me.

Point 1 is neither here nor there. Meaningless fluff to pump yourselves up. No issue there.

point 1 addressed the idea that dragging things out is a sign of weakness and desire to avoid, and specifically in this context, the method of alledged dragging it out was the allowing RIA members to vote on the terms, which I was implying was in fact allowing the cat to play with the prey item, and that there were other motivations for such action than delaying something bad. so that point directly addresses ivan's implications about why delta talked about that option.

Point 2 is entirely wrong. Ivan was saying that the voting process by RIA about the 1v1 war could open the window for another alliance to attack NSO and do their dirty work for them during this delay. That is, attack and take down the NSO being the "dirty work".

as I pointed out in my first point (before "point 1"), delta provided the option of rushing the terms and doing them himself, which he would not do if he was trying to drag things out. This was of course obvious but Ivan either ignored it or failed to comprehend it. In any case it was the first thing I addressed.

because of that, the only way there could be a delay is if Ivan acquiesced to it, in which case it could not be considered unfair or 'dirty,' and because he was provided the option of rushing it, there is no evidence we intended to stall and have someone else surprise DoW in a war you dont consent to. All that leaves is a war which we would both as alliances consent to, so it couldn't possibly be dirty. if you think that anyone fighting you at all is dirty, then you shouldn't agree to it, but in this case Ivan is agreeing to it so you can't call it dirty. hence, the validity of "point 2." Ivan's agreeing to it and he has the option to rush it, so he has no grounds calling it dirty, and I think he knows it.

The last comment of yours mkes no sense at all. I didn't see Ivan claiming to be a victim of anything. He was goading Delta over the "delay" a vote causes much like most people here have been goading the NSO over various wars and challenges the past day and a half.

keep in mind that my points all build on eachother. delta provided the option of quick terms by himself, or slower terms voted by members, based evidently on Ivan's preference. Ivan then tried to make it look like delta wanted to delay things and to that end completely ignored delta's offer to rush things. So, Ivan is contriving a scenario, completely out of his own imagination, where his alliance is the victim. He further expresses this posture by insinuating that someone else might do our 'dirty work,' all in the context of a war he agreed to and that he could determine the timing of. if it's all up to him, how is it dirty? it's not.

and, at the same time as he portrays him and his alliance as the victims, he tries to insinuate that those victimizing him are 'copping out' and 'dragging things out' and lack the 'intestinal fortitude' (to victimize him?). He is simultaneously daring delta to fight him and trying to make him too ashamed to fight. So he's basically spinning the quote in two different directions that contradict eachother. I really shouldn't be pointing this out because it's a small mercy when liars are bad liars. but there you have it. thanks for clarifying, I don't think I could have guessed where you went wrong, but it appears to be the point where you fail to see that the voting process was presented as an option that Ivan could deny, thus he couldn't complain as if it were a delay forced on him, but his entire post was pretty much based on pretending it was being forced on him as some dirty non-existent tactic.

now all this aside, it's possible Ivan just failed to comprehend that the delay was optional, not required. but I find that unlikely, and the phrasing of my original response was designed to account for that possibility somewhat.

[Tygaland]

thanks for clarifying. now allow me.

point 1 addressed the idea that dragging things out is a sign of weakness and desire to avoid, and specifically in this context, the method of alledged dragging it out was the allowing RIA members to vote on the terms, which I was implying was in fact allowing the cat to play with the prey item, and that there were other motivations for such action than delaying something bad. so that point directly addresses ivan's implications about why delta talked about that option.

I well aware what you meant. I said it was just fluff and I had no issue with it.

as I pointed out in my first point (before "point 1"), delta provided the option of rushing the terms and doing them himself, which he would not do if he was trying to drag things out. This was of course obvious but Ivan either ignored it or failed to comprehend it. In any case it was the first thing I addressed.

because of that, the only way there could be a delay is if Ivan acquiesced to it, in which case it could not be considered unfair or 'dirty,' and because he was provided the option of rushing it, there is no evidence we intended to stall and have someone else surprise DoW in a war you dont consent to. All that leaves is a war which we would both as alliances consent to, so it couldn't possibly be dirty. if you think that anyone fighting you at all is dirty, then you shouldn't agree to it, but in this case Ivan is agreeing to it so you can't call it dirty. hence, the validity of "point 2." Ivan's agreeing to it and he has the option to rush it, so he has no grounds calling it dirty, and I think he knows it.

The delay is RIA voting whether or not to accept the acceptance of the challenge they threw down to NSO. Ivan was merely pointing out the possibility that the delay could open the door for someone else to attack them and do the "dirty work" for RIA. I guess if you are going to get all technical and upset over banter then the 1v1 battle may be a trying time for you.

keep in mind that my points all build on eachother. delta provided the option of quick terms by himself, or slower terms voted by members, based evidently on Ivan's preference. Ivan then tried to make it look like delta wanted to delay things and to that end completely ignored delta's offer to rush things. So, Ivan is contriving a scenario, completely out of his own imagination, where his alliance is the victim. He further expresses this posture by insinuating that someone else might do our 'dirty work,' all in the context of a war he agreed to and that he could determine the timing of. if it's all up to him, how is it dirty? it's not.

What? When did Ivan reject immediate discussions to set the ground rules in place for the 1v1? He invited RIA to speak to his people about it immediately. Delta said RIA had to vote and that is what is happening. I still don;t think you have any idea what Ivan was actually saying.

and, at the same time as he portrays him and his alliance as the victims, he tries to insinuate that those victimizing him are 'copping out' and 'dragging things out' and lack the 'intestinal fortitude' (to victimize him?). He is simultaneously daring delta to fight him and trying to make him too ashamed to fight. So he's basically spinning the quote in two different directions that contradict eachother. I really shouldn't be pointing this out because it's a small mercy when liars are bad liars. but there you have it. thanks for clarifying, I don't think I could have guessed where you went wrong, but it appears to be the point where you fail to see that the voting process was presented as an option that Ivan could deny, thus he couldn't complain as if it were a delay forced on him, but his entire post was pretty much based on pretending it was being forced on him as some dirty non-existent tactic.

Where has Ivan claimed to be a victim? Are you making this up as you go along? Ivan accepted RIA's challenge and invited RIA to discuss the ground rules with his people. Delta said RIA had to vote as they were a democratic alliance. Ivan gave him some ribbing about the delay and how it left the door open for someone else to jump in and do his "dirty work". I really do not see what you are getting at, most of what you say appears to be a figment of your imagination.

now all this aside, it's possible Ivan just failed to comprehend that the delay was optional, not required. but I find that unlikely, and the phrasing of my original response was designed to account for that possibility somewhat.

Again, where did Ivan demand RIA vote on it? The option on whether to vote is RIA's not NSO's.

[Puppet Master]

Where did I say it would be voted down? I said that RIA's going to war with NSO via the challenge they threw out to NSO relies on the vote going in favour of such action.

I already addressed that post, perhaps you should scroll back and read it. I never stated you called Ivan a coward, I said he had been called a coward for challenging smaller alliances to 1v1 wars. Perhaps it is you who is too busy trying to appear clever when you should probably be reading posts a little more closely.

As for examples of Ivan being labelled a coward, I got tired after only page 6 of this thread and found these. I'm sure you can read on for more if you are so inclined:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2049069

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2049108

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2049135

If you can also point out where I have bashed RIA (I wasn't aware posting a comment that is accurate in relation to the RIA Charter was bashing) and where I have put words in your mouth, I'd much appreciate it.

I never said anything about you thinking it would get voted down... I posted part of the RIA charter so that people could see for themselves and simply made a comment based upon what others in RIA have said that they dont think it will be voted down. If anything I saved you the trouble of looking up the charter, so your welcome.

No i was not trying to appear cleaver. I wasn't trying to appear clever, i was merely trying to save my name from being slandered. You made that comment about others called Ivan a cowered after QUOTING me, even though I had nothing to do with any of that business and I was simply trying to show my personal support for RIA in this matter. Since it seems you have plenty of other posts of OTHERS calling him a coward, may I ask why you did not use one of them instead. If you actually read my posts earlier in this discussion you will find that I did have respect for Ivan and I kept asking him to display the apology so NSO could come out on top in this matter.

More or less Tyga. I am more than willing to look like a fool for comments I made, however i am not willing to take blame or have the assumption i did something i did not say or do. So for future reference, leave the slander of my name to me. As many of others will tell, I do it quite well B) .

EDIT: Spelling, was/wasn't <-- see i can self assassinate myself so well i dont even know i am doing it!

Edited December 24, 2009 by Puppet Master

[JWConner]

I figured it is a trap....but i am not sure who is setting a trap for whom.....

This issue has just crossed a total of 100 pages in three different threads.....and i am still not sure who is trapping whom......

Actually, me and rab are doing all the trapping. We're sneaky that way.

[Tygaland]

I never said anything about you thinking it would get voted down... I posted part of the RIA charter so that people could see for themselves and simply made a comment based upon what others in RIA have said that they dont think it will be voted down. If anything I saved you the trouble of looking up the charter, so your welcome.

I wasn't going to look it up seeing as Delta already said they were voting. The whole vote passing to go to war thing was kind of assumed on my part.

No i was not trying to appear cleaver. I wasn't trying to appear clever, i was merely trying to save my name from being slandered. You made that comment about others called Ivan a cowered after QUOTING me, even though I had nothing to do with any of that business and I was simply trying to show my personal support for RIA in this matter.

Yes, you praised Delta for throwing down the challenge to NSO. I merely commented how it was odd that when Ivan challenged smaller alliances people called him a coward. If I was accusing you directly I'd have said so. The only reason I quoted your post was because you raised the topic that I was responding to.

Since it seems you have plenty of other posts of OTHERS calling him a coward, may I ask why you did not use one of them instead. If you actually read my posts earlier in this discussion you will find that I did have respect for Ivan and I kept asking him to display the apology so NSO could come out on top in this matter.

Because it was you praising Delta for the actions Ivan has been condemned for. That is why I quoted your post. I think you are trying too hard to be offended here.

More or less Tyga. I am more than willing to look like a fool for comments I made, however i am not willing to take blame or have the assumption i did something i did not say or do. So for future reference, leave the slander of my name to me. As many of others will tell, I do it quite well B) .

Yet, this is the third time in this post alone you have accused me of something I did not so despite me telling you this twice before this post. I did not say you called Ivan a coward and if you can quote me accusing you of it then please do so. A general reply to your comment mentioning that Ivan had been labelled a coward for doing what you praised Delta for is not accusing you personally of calling Ivan a coward. It is a mere statement of fact as the links I provided showed.

[Hunterman1043]

Wow people are still posting walls of text... Just let this die.... All this did was disappoint me.

[Captain Flinders]

Good on you DF.

[rabonnobar]

Actually, me and rab are doing all the trapping. We're sneaky that way.

Shhhh.. He's joking people, he becomes quite the comedian when he lacks sleep. Conner, my friend, time to hit the sack I think.

[Tygaland]

Shhhh.. He's joking people, he becomes quite the comedian when he lacks sleep. Conner, my friend, time to hit the sack I think.

Hmm...Rabonackbar?

[rabonnobar]

Hmm...Rabonackbar?

Never heard that one before, lol.

[Puppet Master]

Shhhh.. He's joking people, he becomes quite the comedian when he lacks sleep. Conner, my friend, time to hit the sack I think.

Im pretty sure i need to hit the sack because im pretty sure I just had a rather large back and forth with Tyga over something that was only semi a big deal to me but lack of sleep compounded it in my head.

Wow people are still posting walls of text... Just let this die.... All this did was disappoint me.

A war between RIA and NSO is disappointing....? Hmm you have high standards my friend . Though idk how much more can be said about this, other than people speculating on what the terms of the war will be like and who will come out on top. So to jump the gun on that!

Puppet sees it coming out to be a 12 day war with white peace at the end, free use of nukes and spys (the works), and in the end RIA coming out on top.

[Tromp]

Well, this was a total waste of time.

It is funny to see the NSO trying so hard to get a bad $@! image. So far they've achieved the opposite.

They should rename themselves No Spine Order.

[monkeybum]

As an orthadox jew, I appreciate this christmas present!

I like all the parties involved, but hey planet Bob has been too quiet lately.

Edited December 24, 2009 by monkeybum

[Poyplemonkeys]

NSO prepared for war... we could only assume that You have until update is a threat. In fact why are we arguing that. You did threaten DF, stop denying it. And we rallied to support our black sphere brothers

heh, make sure you get some cruise missiles in early, just in case

[SWAT128]

All I ask is that our little one versus one war be held off till January first so I have time to play with my Christmas stuff.

[ikMark]

No way that I am going to read all 16 pages of this crap. Too lazy.

What bothers me most: The evidence-no evidence story aside, Sith has claimed to have a reason to DoW now twice.. first with the CSN thing, and now this. And still, they haven't attacked a single alliance. Either grow some balls, or shut up with the whole 'that's a CB'-attitude!

Looks like a typical example of a paper tiger to me.

Edited December 24, 2009 by ikMark

[JWConner]

Shhhh.. He's joking people, he becomes quite the comedian when he lacks sleep. Conner, my friend, time to hit the sack I think.

/me puts the proverbial cat back in the bag...

And I have slept, I just woke up nice and early to [ooc: work] my Christmas Eve half-day

rab

[Kindom of Goon]

This whole thing is stupid.

[MCRABT]

My my this is rather boring NO U threads suck.

[Haflinger]

Is this just going to keep going like this for a few days and then everyone is going to be chill or are we all going to duke it out again? It's getting a little tough to wait.

It's going to keep on going around and around in circles for months because everyone loves to hear themselves speak.

147 users are reading this topic. That's a lot. I wonder how many the DoW will get?

That's a trick question, as we all know it doesn't exist.

You know, if DF was doing this to any other alliance you all would be outraged. I've lost some respect for some leaders as a result of this situation.

At least something positive has come out of this insanity. Well other than me busting a couple guts.

We believe there was sufficient evidence to warrant an announcement.

Which was?

Look, I didn't see any evidence in that announcement either. If you want to restate it, please try, but it really reads like "We think youwish is a complete !@#$%^&. OBVIOUSLY it was him."

I think it was universally agreed upon that DF's initial topic was horribly stupid.

Alas, no it wasn't. They had quite a bit of support in there actually.

So I will say this Moldavi, if your own allies believed this situation could result in war, then why are you calling us idiots for thinking that as well? Are STA idiots? Are NpO idiots?

Everyone believed this situation could result in war, as you were pretty obviously campaigning in your thread to have NSO attacked.

When people post "X must be destroyed" it's not much of a stretch to imagine X being involved in a war.

Alright, you can accuse me of wanting to see NSO rolled or not being involved in this or whatever. But in the 3 years I've been playing this game, 'you have until update' has always meant that you're either going to comply with the demands or go to war.

If that makes me crazy, then fine. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

I'm not even going to insult anyone in this post. If I'm wrong and someone has used that line without the advent of war, then show me and I'll be perfectly content.

I have an interesting reference.

[17:00] <+electron_sponge> Unless you identify the source of that I suggest you get your alliance to peace mode.

[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> These logs were confirmed by Moo.

[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> That the post existed, I mean.

[17:01] <+electron_sponge> I don't care who they were confirmed by

[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> That and the password checks out.

[17:01] <+electron_sponge> Source

[17:01] <+electron_sponge> now

[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I can gladly state that I honestly don't know the source.

[17:02] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Cornelius and I have yet to be on at the same time since he recieved the logs.

[17:02] <+electron_sponge> you have until update to get me the name

[17:02] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Or you'll do what?

[17:02] <+electron_sponge> because this isn't some hair splitting BS

[17:02] <+electron_sponge> this is real-deal espionage

[17:02] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> As is your harboring of Chickenzilla.

[17:02] <+electron_sponge> oh the $%&@ it is

[17:03] <+electron_sponge> tick tick tick Ardus

[17:03] <+electron_sponge> you might want to get talking to whoever it is you talk to

[17:03] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I'd say you've lost your mind if you think you can touch Viridia.

Apart from noting the obvious comedy of GOD appearing to rely on Dilber for support, I think the peace mode remark is an obvious threat.

Timing stuff with update? Not so much. Although I wasn't able to find any other references to that phrase on these forums.

I find it truly baffling how such a basic concept that is integral to just about every alliance, the idea that the leader decides when war is declared, is so often misunderstood, deliberately or not.

I'm pretty much used to this, since apparently nowadays I get sent around to threaten people with war from entire blocs, and I don't even lead one alliance.

What bothers me most: The evidence-no evidence story aside, Sith has claimed to have a reason to DoW now twice.. first with the CSN thing, and now this.

Actually, they said the exact opposite. Also they're apparently going to war.

[steodonn]

All I ask is that our little one versus one war be held off till January first so I have time to play with my Christmas stuff.

1v1 is no fun

I was hopeing for a global war

[kriekfreak]

Well, this was a total waste of time.

It is funny to see the NSO trying so hard to get a bad $@! image. So far they've achieved the opposite.

They should rename themselves No Spine Order.

Lol that is a good one.

Viva la No Spine Order. Cause they are full of sith (deliberate typo).

[Mongrel]

This catfight is way to long and far too much of a tease for me, can some one let me know if they ever start taking their clothes off and making out?

[foxodi]

This catfight is way to long and far too much of a tease for me, can some one let me know if they ever start taking their clothes off and making out?

Everyone knows foreplay is important

[Kevin McDonald]

Wow. This is childish.

Boycott these threads.