Countdown to Athens Rep Payment

[Bob Janova]

So the upshot of this is that no visible reparations are being paid because you're buying donations for KoN nations? That seems a satisfactory outcome if it's a reasonable number (i.e. one that KoN agreed to without coercion), although it's interesting that you've chosen a method of paying reps that can't be traced and therefore allows threads like this to keep a head of steam.

[Tygaland]

So the upshot of this is that no visible reparations are being paid because you're buying donations for KoN nations? That seems a satisfactory outcome if it's a reasonable number (i.e. one that KoN agreed to without coercion), although it's interesting that you've chosen a method of paying reps that can't be traced and therefore allows threads like this to keep a head of steam.

So, Athens agree to a reps sum and method of payment with KoN on KoN's terms (sending reps directly would be much easier for Athens) and yet people still try and create another consiracy out of it?

This discussion will continue regardless as most of the complainants have no real interest in the issue at hand outside of attempts at cheap point scoring off Athens.

[Bob Janova]

I'm not really sure how saying it's a satisfactory outcome is creating a conspiracy. It is a predictable result of using donations to pay the reps that people will continue to speculate and try to score cheap points, and I think it's interesting that Athens/FoB have chosen a method which leaves them open to such sniping. I'm not doubting that they are actually paying them or that they chose this method in order to pay less than they 'should' or whatever you think the conspiracy that's being created here is.

[rsoxbronco1]

I'm not really sure how saying it's a satisfactory outcome is creating a conspiracy. It is a predictable result of using donations to pay the reps that people will continue to speculate and try to score cheap points, and I think it's interesting that Athens/FoB have chosen a method which leaves them open to such sniping. I'm not doubting that they are actually paying them or that they chose this method in order to pay less than they 'should' or whatever you think the conspiracy that's being created here is.

I'm sure Ni will be happy to let people know if they don't get reps. Problem solved.

[Tygaland]

I'm not really sure how saying it's a satisfactory outcome is creating a conspiracy. It is a predictable result of using donations to pay the reps that people will continue to speculate and try to score cheap points, and I think it's interesting that Athens/FoB have chosen a method which leaves them open to such sniping. I'm not doubting that they are actually paying them or that they chose this method in order to pay less than they 'should' or whatever you think the conspiracy that's being created here is.

I don't think Athens or FoB chose this method, KoN did. At least, according to my sources.

[Ragashingo]

I'm sure Ni will be happy to let people know if they don't get reps. Problem solved.

Hmm. Why keep the amount and kind of payments a secret? It seems a bit immature to me the way you're dancing around and taunting people with the undisclosed agreement.

[Tygaland]

Hmm. Why keep the amount and kind of payments a secret? It seems a bit immature to me the way you're dancing around and taunting people with the undisclosed agreement.

I am enjoying Athens' pied piper routine actually

[rsoxbronco1]

Hmm. Why keep the amount and kind of payments a secret? It seems a bit immature to me the way you're dancing around and taunting people with the undisclosed agreement.

It's way more entertaining this way. Ni was going to post the announcement a couple days ago, but they haven't yet. We're not dancing around it, we're waiting for Ni. If they decide they don't want to announce it, I will.

[wickedj]

It's way more entertaining this way. Ni was going to post the announcement a couple days ago, but they haven't yet. We're not dancing around it, we're waiting for Ni. If they decide they don't want to announce it, I will.

you shouldnt announce it, i enjoy coming to this thread to see all the fake outrage

[Alicia]

Hmm. Why keep the amount and kind of payments a secret?

Because it is incredibly funny for those who do know what is happening.

[Ragashingo]

It's way more entertaining this way. Ni was going to post the announcement a couple days ago, but they haven't yet. We're not dancing around it, we're waiting for Ni. If they decide they don't want to announce it, I will.

Ah, good to know. Perhaps you said that earlier and I missed it?

[rsoxbronco1]

Ah, good to know. Perhaps you said that earlier and I missed it?

Not directly. Most of the details have been alluded to, but we haven't made any them public.

[Ragashingo]

Not directly. Most of the details have been alluded to, but we haven't made any them public.

Well then I suppose the only thing I can do here is urge you to be more direct next time.

You won't be deprived of your entertainment. Those you have taunted with this small secret of yours will continue to post foolishness no matter what you do. You gain nothing from your immaturity except the frowns of those like me who would rather see an alliance strive to build up a good reputation than to linger with fools so that they can pick the very low hanging fruit.

[rsoxbronco1]

Well then I suppose the only thing I can do here is urge you to be more direct next time.

You won't be deprived of your entertainment. Those you have taunted with this small secret of yours will continue to post foolishness no matter what you do. You gain nothing from your immaturity except the frowns of those like me who would rather see an alliance strive to build up a good reputation than to linger with fools so that they can pick the very low hanging fruit.

I already said that Ni was going to be announcing and that if they don't, I will.

[Ragashingo]

I already said that Ni was going to be announcing and that if they don't, I will.

Thats good. But being clear at some point in the future doesn't change what's already been done.

[rsoxbronco1]

Thats good. But being clear at some point in the future doesn't change what's already been done.

I'm still not getting your point. Are you saying that because we aren't telling you the reps there's been some sort of damage done to Athens? I think we took care of damaging ourselves when we raided Ni, not when we refused to post the reps just because a bunch of people put on frowny faces and told us we were being bad people for not bringing them into the loop.

[Ragashingo]

I'm still not getting your point. Are you saying that because we aren't telling you the reps there's been some sort of damage done to Athens? I think we took care of damaging ourselves when we raided Ni, not when we refused to post the reps just because a bunch of people put on frowny faces and told us we were being bad people for not bringing them into the loop.

No. I'm saying that parading about telling people that you refuse tell them the reps was immature, as was highlighting the people you did tell just to be antagonistic.

Do the frowny faced people have any right to know the reps? No.

Has mocking them for entertainment value helped Athen's reputation? Not in my eyes.

Would it be a good idea to let people know the reps as a way of showing Athen's sincerity for your promise to make amends to Ni? Absolutely.

Did ya'll squander an opportunity to generate some positive PR with the people that do matter? I think so.

[rsoxbronco1]

No. I'm saying that parading about telling people that you refuse tell them the reps was immature, as was highlighting the people you did tell just to be antagonistic.

Do the frowny faced people have any right to know the reps? No.

Has mocking them for entertainment value helped Athen's reputation? Not in my eyes.

Would it be a good idea to let people know the reps as a way of showing Athen's sincerity for your promise to make amends to Ni? Absolutely.

Did ya'll squander an opportunity to generate some positive PR with the people that do matter? I think so.

The people who matter...like who? We've dealt with the situation and you'll know the details by next week.

[Ragashingo]

The people who matter...like who? We've dealt with the situation and you'll know the details by next week.

I'm not concerned with the details, there will be plenty of time to criticize or praise them later. I'm concerned with the way your alliance is portraying itself. Ya'll could have stood high and told us up front that the plan was for Ni to post the details. Instead ya'll stooped down to mock the frowny faces.

[Tick1]

I'm not concerned with the details, there will be plenty of time to criticize or praise them later. I'm concerned with the way your alliance is portraying itself. Ya'll could have stood high and told us up front that the plan was for Ni to post the details. Instead ya'll stooped down to mock the frowny faces.

When did we plan to open this thread? We never planned to include any group into our discussion until the plans were final. You act like you should be informed on a settlement that has nothing to do with yourself. It's like your asking what someone's mortgage is on their house. It's none of your business.

When will people be more self-dependent and stop expecting the world to hand them everything. The information is at your fingertips, so please find it out yourself.

[Bob]

KoN! wanted donation deals, so that is what is being done.

Silly Athens and FoB, doing what the alliance wants you to do with absolutely no complaints from them.

[Ragashingo]

When did we plan to open this thread? We never planned to include any group into our discussion until the plans were final. You act like you should be informed on a settlement that has nothing to do with yourself. It's like your asking what someone's mortgage is on their house. It's none of your business.

When will people be more self-dependent and stop expecting the world to hand them everything. The information is at your fingertips, so please find it out yourself.

The extent of the blame does not fall on those who opened the thread and asked for answers. Athens had every right to ignore the thread. But they responded, and I think some of their responses were not of the caliber they could have been.

On the larger issue, I think it would have been in Athen's best interest to inform others of their plans. For better or worse a significant amount of people / alliances stood up for Ni. Athens promised them it would make the situation right. By keeping their actions hidden Athens invites those alliance to doubt their sincerity. While an open policy in this matter would not driven away all the foolish commenters, it would have kept that doubt to a minimum. I for one think Athens will be vindicated in the end, I just don't see any reason for allowing that doubt to come creeping in.

[Caesar833]

The extent of the blame does not fall on those who opened the thread and asked for answers. Athens had every right to ignore the thread. But they responded, and I think some of their responses were not of the caliber they could have been.

On the larger issue, I think it would have been in Athen's best interest to inform others of their plans. For better or worse a significant amount of people / alliances stood up for Ni. Athens promised them it would make the situation right. By keeping their actions hidden Athens invites those alliance to doubt their sincerity. While an open policy in this matter would not driven away all the foolish commenters, it would have kept that doubt to a minimum. I for one think Athens will be vindicated in the end, I just don't see any reason for allowing that doubt to come creeping in.

This all sounds about right to me. This subject continued because some people did not know if Athens were paying reps after all or not. If someone just announced the plan when it was made then the questions would not need to be asked

[Tick1]

The extent of the blame does not fall on those who opened the thread and asked for answers. Athens had every right to ignore the thread. But they responded, and I think some of their responses were not of the caliber they could have been.

On the larger issue, I think it would have been in Athen's best interest to inform others of their plans. For better or worse a significant amount of people / alliances stood up for Ni. Athens promised them it would make the situation right. By keeping their actions hidden Athens invites those alliance to doubt their sincerity. While an open policy in this matter would not driven away all the foolish commenters, it would have kept that doubt to a minimum. I for one think Athens will be vindicated in the end, I just don't see any reason for allowing that doubt to come creeping in.

Not to say this out of spite or anything, but last I checked you weren't in Athens or FoB. So why should you inform us indirectly? Their are other methods of doing this, but instead you persist on telling people how to handle their own problems. So may I ask, would you please write up a financial plan the would accommodate the Knights of Ni's! every need. Since you seem to be the most qualified. I'd also like for you to write up a statement expressing how you'd have handled the situation regarding after we started discussing reparations. Failure to do so will just further your mindless babbling. If you have no actual solution to solve any issue that has taken place, why point out our error?

I'd also like to take the time to point out as I have in many threads and posts. The Federation of Buccaneers did partake in this event, so please don't solely blame Athens.

Edit: Spelling

Edited December 8, 2009 by Tick1

[Ragashingo]

Not do say this out of spite or anything, but last I checked you weren't in Athens or FoB. So why should you inform us indirectly? Their are other methods of doing this, but instead you persist on telling people how to handle their own problems.

I'm not quote sure what you are asking here. Why did I get involved? Because I like Athens but I often feel they do things without thinking them through. Why did I choose this venue to address the concerns I had? Well, because I like the public debate of issues. It's why I've stuck around for over three years.

If I've missed something let me know.

So may I ask, would you please write up a financial plan the would accommodate the Knights of Ni's! every need. Since you seem to be the most qualified. I'd also like for you to write up a statement expressing how you'd have handled the situation regarding after we started discussing reparations. Failure to do so will just further your mindless babbling. If you have no actual solution to solve any issue that has taken place, why point out our error?

No, I will not write up a financial plan. My focus was never on the financial aspect of all this and I'm certainly not qualified to handle alliance scale financial issues. Heck I used to routinely bill lock myself while carrying out tech selling not all that long ago despite being around for longer than most here. Furthermore, I don't think there is any need for me to provide financial suggestions. I said it back when Athens first promised to make things right, and I've said it in this topic: I think Athens will (or has done?) the right thing. Really my point here in these lasts few replies is that I didn't like the way they were unnecessarily feeding the trolls. I think it was unbecoming and that they can do better.

I do resent the comment about mindless babbling as I don't think I am guilty of it. I did provide a solution, just not a solution to the financial problem because it was unnecessary for me to do so. Both because I believe that problem to already be solved and because I was not attempting to address it in the first place. My solution was to the behavior problem that I have been speaking about. The solution was to state clearly what was going on and to ignore those people who were going to post foolish comments no matter what ya'll said or did.

I'd also like to take the time to point out as I have in many threads and many post. The Federation of Buccaneers did partake in this event, so please don't solely blame Athens.

That was never my intent. I spoke mainly of Athens because I know them better and because I was mainly replying to someone from Athens. Feel free to assume I was also speaking of FoB in my posts where it is appropriate.

P.S. Sorry about the 10 minutes thing. I tried but I felt you were sincere and didn't want to rush my reply.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Ragashingo