Countdown to Athens Rep Payment

[rsoxbronco1]

I actually have thought through our policy of not publicly announcing the reps before Ni. They said they would make an announcement and I'm not going to preempt them.

[Lord Fingolfin]

Well thats no fun! Reveal the secrets of the boring unimportant reps that people are fussing over. This whole thing is mind numbingly stupid . The fact of the matter is that this thread serves no purpose, nobody is going to go roll Athens for not paying reps. People need to stop posturing, the point has been made.

[Shinpah]

Not to say this out of spite or anything, but last I checked you weren't in Athens or FoB. So why should you inform us indirectly? Their are other methods of doing this, but instead you persist on telling people how to handle their own problems. So may I ask, would you please write up a financial plan the would accommodate the Knights of Ni's! every need. Since you seem to be the most qualified. I'd also like for you to write up a statement expressing how you'd have handled the situation regarding after we started discussing reparations. Failure to do so will just further your mindless babbling. If you have no actual solution to solve any issue that has taken place, why point out our error?

I'd also like to take the time to point out as I have in many threads and posts. The Federation of Buccaneers did partake in this event, so please don't solely blame Athens.

Edit: Spelling

Tick1, I feel that you're pushing the whole "stay out of our business" line a little too hard.

The impartial or even favorable series of constructive criticisms that Ragashingo is offering in regards to alliance transparency are acceptable and don't require the harshness that you've returned. While Rsox and him may be free to disagree over the impact that Athens' reaction to Bilrow's washing machine-esque thread and the transparency of Athens in this event has caused, I can't assert that you're being terribly open minded about this.

[rsoxbronco1]

Well thats no fun! Reveal the secrets of the boring unimportant reps that people are fussing over. This whole thing is mind numbingly stupid . The fact of the matter is that this thread serves no purpose, nobody is going to go roll Athens for not paying reps. People need to stop posturing, the point has been made.

It would be really silly, especially since we are paying reps.

[lakerzz8]

The extent of the blame does not fall on those who opened the thread and asked for answers. Athens had every right to ignore the thread. But they responded, and I think some of their responses were not of the caliber they could have been.

On the larger issue, I think it would have been in Athen's best interest to inform others of their plans. For better or worse a significant amount of people / alliances stood up for Ni. Athens promised them it would make the situation right. By keeping their actions hidden Athens invites those alliance to doubt their sincerity. While an open policy in this matter would not driven away all the foolish commenters, it would have kept that doubt to a minimum. I for one think Athens will be vindicated in the end, I just don't see any reason for allowing that doubt to come creeping in.

To be fair, knowing the reparation agreement was as easy as asking Rsox what they were over IRC. If any alliances (I'm assuming their leaders) were doubting Athens' sincerity in paying reps they would have already contacted them in private and found out the truth about the reps. The only people not being made aware of the reps are the general membership of alliances who in most cases don't have much say regarding what their alliance does politically.

And even regular members would have been informed had they PM'd Rsox or messaged him in private via other means. The information was easily attainable even though it was not completely public.

Edited December 8, 2009 by lakerzz8

[Necromancer V4L]

-snip- reps paid has been:

*Updated daily till Reps Start being Paid.

So, since reps have started to be paid, does this mean you are done updating this thread daily?

[Tick1]

I'm not quote sure what you are asking here. Why did I get involved? Because I like Athens but I often feel they do things without thinking them through. Why did I choose this venue to address the concerns I had? Well, because I like the public debate of issues. It's why I've stuck around for over three years.

If I've missed something let me know.

From what I've read throughout this thread the debate seemed to end about five pages or so back. The only reason I don't grasp what you are getting at is because you could have always reached us in private, but you insisted on contacting us publicly. From what I remember Bob Janova was quite happy with the information I provided him. So if the knowledge is out there why do you people insist on being fed from a silver spoon?

No, I will not write up a financial plan. My focus was never on the financial aspect of all this and I'm certainly not qualified to handle alliance scale financial issues. Heck I used to routinely bill lock myself while carrying out tech selling not all that long ago despite being around for longer than most here. Furthermore, I don't think there is any need for me to provide financial suggestions. I said it back when Athens first promised to make things right, and I've said it in this topic: I think Athens will (or has done?) the right thing. Really my point here in these lasts few replies is that I didn't like the way they were unnecessarily feeding the trolls. I think it was unbecoming and that they can do better.

I do resent the comment about mindless babbling as I don't think I am guilty of it. I did provide a solution, just not a solution to the financial problem because it was unnecessary for me to do so. Both because I believe that problem to already be solved and because I was not attempting to address it in the first place. My solution was to the behavior problem that I have been speaking about. The solution was to state clearly what was going on and to ignore those people who were going to post foolish comments no matter what ya'll said or did.

While living above the expectations of people is a great standard, it has come to my attention that we've been perceived as less than what you believe we are. So in order to live up to the public's eye I feel we deemed it necessary to feed these people and their hunger for a "PR" bonus this week. Could there have been a better method taken? Yes. Can we change that method taken after its been taken? No. I feel someone should learn when to take their loses and leave. Further dragging this topic out when the damage has already been done, seems like complete nonsense in my opinion, but people continue to ask the same questions for multiple pages. So how am I supposed to answer the same question for ten pages when the answer is on the first page? Once again I will quote myself, "So if the knowledge is out there why do you people insist on being fed from a silver spoon?"

That was never my intent. I spoke mainly of Athens because I know them better and because I was mainly replying to someone from Athens. Feel free to assume I was also speaking of FoB in my posts where it is appropriate.

P.S. Sorry about the 10 minutes thing. I tried but I felt you were sincere and didn't want to rush my reply.

I appreciate your sincerity, I just feel that people only blame Athens for this situation seeing as they only post about Athens. Now why would this bother me? Well people also believe the Federation of Buccaneers have been let off the "hook" when it comes to paying back reparations and that Athens will be the only alliance partaking in these events. Seeing that this far from true it tends too annoy me.

Thank you for your post and please don't be afraid to contact anyone that may be able to provide you with information.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Tick1

[Tick1]

Tick1, I feel that you're pushing the whole "stay out of our business" line a little too hard.

The impartial or even favorable series of constructive criticisms that Ragashingo is offering in regards to alliance transparency are acceptable and don't require the harshness that you've returned. While Rsox and him may be free to disagree over the impact that Athens' reaction to Bilrow's washing machine-esque thread and the transparency of Athens in this event has caused, I can't assert that you're being terribly open minded about this.

Shinpah, I may have pushed that line little too hard, but I still stand on my point that it is not something that needs to be talked about publicly. If they really wish to know what is going on by all means contact me through the twenty methods that have been provided. I know plenty of people from Athens that have the information and that would be willing to share their knowledge with them. I myself will be more than willing to share with them the method that we are taking and I can express what has taken a long time to gather. I will however not post it publicly seeing as it is not my business to do so.

Edit: Word Usage

Edited December 8, 2009 by Tick1

[Iotupa]

While I feel a lot of headaches and time could have been saved by and for Athens if they had been more forthcoming, rather than evasive, it appears they have indeed reached an agreement, confirmed in private by both Athens and the Knights of Ni!. As such, I wish all involved alliances well, and take my leave.

[Tygaland]

While I feel a lot of headaches and time could have been saved by and for Athens if they had been more forthcoming, rather than evasive, it appears they have indeed reached an agreement, confirmed in private by both Athens and the Knights of Ni!. As such, I wish all involved alliances well, and take my leave.

Yeah, they told us that days ago. Glad to see you have caught up.

[Iotupa]

Yeah, they told us that days ago. Glad to see you have caught up.

Yes, they did tell us that days ago and then no aid started going out. Glad to see you're still being a pompous prick, though.

[Tygaland]

Yes, they did tell us that days ago and then no aid started going out. Glad to see you're still being a pompous prick, though.

Me being pompous? I thought it was you shooting your mouth off over things you had no clue about, not me.

[Iotupa]

Me being pompous? I thought it was you shooting your mouth off over things you had no clue about, not me.

Yes, because asking questions is shooting my mouth off.

[Tygaland]

Yes, because asking questions is shooting my mouth off.

Asking questions and ignoring the answers only to repeat the question is, yes.

[Iotupa]

Asking questions and ignoring the answers only to repeat the question is, yes.

If you could show me where I did that in this thread, that would be great. Otherwise, you can shut your mouth just as easily as I can.

[Tick1]

If you could show me where I did that in this thread, that would be great. Otherwise, you can shut your mouth just as easily as I can.

Would it be possible to get confirmation from Athens regarding NPO paying their reps instead of Athens paying them?

Athens discusses reparations with Knights of Ni! While debating the amount that should be given X# of post take place.

Londo, could you address the rumor that NPO will be paying the reparations instead of Athens?

The money that NPO owes Athens is still considered Athens money, is it not? Then why would you assume this is coming out of NPO's pocket?

I may be mistaken, but I believe that is what he was referring to. Athens has now said an agreement has been reached but has yet to begin sending the aid.

You further emphasize that we are not going to pay reparations. Even though an agreement has been reached. Discussing the best possible methods of buying donations does take time, but then again I don;t think you can grasp that concept.

I'm not sure what releasing to the public the reparations total has to do with Athens ability to start sending their reparations. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point here.

You further emphasize that we are not going to pay reparations. Even though an agreement has been reached. Discussing the best possible methods of buying donations does take time, but then again I don;t think you can grasp that concept.

OK, it appears you did mean what I thought you meant. What does releasing the figure have to do with Athens internal ability to begin sending the reparations? Surely they've told themselves what they negotiated with the Knights of Ni!?

Typing Knights of Ni! at the end of a question makes one appear far more excited about the question than one truly is.

You further emphasize that we are not going to pay reparations. Even though an agreement has been reached. Discussing the best possible methods of buying donations does take time, but then again I don;t think you can grasp that concept.

Are you folks looking for any bank help? I'm willing to freelance, I know a thing or two about speedy bank work.

You emphasize that you can do the job better than any Athens member possibly can, but fail to offer any real solution to the problem. Which is once again not helping the situation only irritating the parties involved.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but there are only 37 members in the Knights of Ni!, and it has now been approximately 43 hours since an agreement was reached, according to Athens, and yet nothing has been sent out. I understand time is needed to set things up, but you have literally had more than an hour per nation in the Knights of Ni! to arrange the reparations payments. Surely it can not take this long to begin sending. You have had plenty of time to set up a number of what appear to be both internal and external technology deals in this time, so I would think you would have had time to set up your reparations payments.

You further emphasize that we are not going to pay reparations. Even though an agreement has been reached. Discussing the best possible methods of buying donations does take time, but then again I don;t think you can grasp that concept.

No, I will not refrain from posting. The fact that you have a large number of aid slots to choose from means that you should have had aid flowing out immediately after the agreement was reached. During all of the time that the Knights of Ni! were "inactive" during your negotiations, you could have been planning what nations would be sending, as well.

You further emphasize that we are not going to pay reparations. Even though an agreement has been reached. Discussing the best possible methods of buying donations does take time, but then again I don;t think you can grasp that concept. .

I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of someone like you than a hypocrite.

I got you covered Tygaland.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Tick1

[Tygaland]

Thanks!

It was established very early on that Athens were discussing a reps figure and payment plan with KoN! It was also established early on that Athens were going to pay the reps from their own pocket and that they would commence paying once an agreement on the sum to be paid and how it was to be paid was reached with KoN!

Yet Brookbank and Co. continued making the same inane comments throughout despite this information being readliy available. Their motivation, therefore, was not to help KoN get a "fair deal" or to keep Athens honest. It was to smear Athens and create scandal where none existed. It is highly amusing to see Mr.Brookbank now trying to smear those that stood firm in the face of his illogical crusade.

Resolution to the satisfaction of all parties involved was reached despite the actions of Brookbank and other assorted rabble-rousers, not because of them.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Tygaland

[Iotupa]

Give us a few moments to discuss the reparations

The money owed to Athens still comes out of Athens pocket.

What? Aids?

What? Aids?

Once again.

Once again.

It couldn't be.

Once again.

I got you covered Tygaland.

Your whole post is a jumbled mess of idiocy. After each of those questions were answered I stopped asking them. It's not my fault I had to ask a couple of times before Athens actually answered.

EDIT: And some of those weren't even questions! Did you miss the day they told everyone what a question was in school?

EDIT 2: Half of those weren't even directed at Athens! You are really bad at this.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Jonathan Brookbank

[Tick1]

Your whole post is a jumbled mess of idiocy. After each of those questions were answered I stopped asking them. It's not my fault I had to ask a couple of times before Athens actually answered.

So now you want me to point out the answers?

[Iotupa]

So now you want me to point out the answers?

Can you even read at all?

[Tick1]

Can you even read at all?

I can read just fine, but I've lost all patience with you. I'm sorry your demand are just to overwhelming and I don't have enough care in the world. I may look like a jerk right now, but you farther inflate this thread with nonsense and mumbo jumbo!. So please don't hold your breath on my next reply.

[Iotupa]

I can read just fine, but I've lost all patience with you. I'm sorry your demand are just to overwhelming and I don't have enough care in the world. I may look like a jerk right now, but you farther inflate this thread with nonsense and mumbo jumbo!. So please don't hold your breath on my next reply.

Apparently you can't read or write properly. It would probably be better for you if you just let someone who could handle both reading and writing talk to me for you. Or just not talk to me at all. I'll leave that one up to you.

[Fronz]

Apparently you can't read or write properly. It would probably be better for you if you just let someone who could handle both reading and writing talk to me for you. Or just not talk to me at all. I'll leave that one up to you.

why of course! this is clearly not an ad hominem attack. carry on soldier, you have won the battle. well done, sir.

[Iotupa]

Thanks!

It was established very early on that Athens were discussing a reps figure and payment plan with KoN! It was also established early on that Athens were going to pay the reps from their own pocket and that they would commence paying once an agreement on the sum to be paid and how it was to be paid was reached with KoN!

Yet Brookbank and Co. continued making the same inane comments throughout despite this information being readliy available. Their motivation, therefore, was not to help KoN get a "fair deal" or to keep Athens honest. It was to smear Athens and create scandal where none existed. It is highly amusing to see Mr.Brookbank now trying to smear those that stood firm in the face of his illogical crusade.

Resolution to the satisfaction of all parties involved was reached despite the actions of Brookbank and other assorted rabble-rousers, not because of them.

I'm starting to wonder if you read this thread at all. After Athens answered the two questions, the two questions being 1) Are you going to pay the reps? and 2) Are you going to pay the reps with your own nations? I stopped asking the questions. The rest of my time in this thread was spent pointing out that people are ignorant for ignoring the message simply because of who brought the message forward, not "making the same inane comments throughout." And I'm not trying to smear anyone, I was trying to leave. You are the one who continued with the "holier than thou" style and I defended myself against your ignorant post.

why of course! this is clearly not an ad hominem attack. carry on soldier, you have won the battle. well done, sir.

I am seriously questioning whether he can or just didn't read at all what I posted or what he posted. His post has absolutely no relation at all to what the conversation was at hand and his response to my saying that made absolutely no sense at all, either. If he CAN read, then he should work on comprehending and not just looking at the words.

[Tick1]

Post edited, please revert back to here

Pardon my grammar, next time I'll write an essay and revise it fifteen times before I post. (Oh wait, were you not complain about time in the whole thread?)

Edited December 9, 2009 by Tick1