Quite Possibly an Endorsement

[KillerKoel]

flattery will get you everywhere.

It hasn't gotten me a blumpkin yet though.

[Stetson76]

And things get more interesting. I'm still convinced PEACE are in the wrong here, and this certainly isn't helping their case any.

Okay, I'll do it again.

Previous version of the PEACE treaty:

Article II: Senators

Member alliances agree to support Poseidon member alliances' Purple Senate candidates, to refrain from putting forth their own candidates, and to take all steps necessary to this end.

Current version of the PEACE treaty:

Article II: Senators

Member alliances recognize the need to work cooperatively in matters regarding the Purple Senate to ensure the interests of all signatories and Pegasus members. As such, any member alliance with fifty (50) purple members, or more, is eligible for Purple Senate seat rotation. Also PEACE only signatories shall be given a spot in the senate rotation upon request on the Purple Unity forums. Provided that they have spent 6 months in PEACE, have a minimum of 50 purple nations, 60% of their alliance on purple and are not vetoed by a majority of Poseidon in doing so.

Do you see the difference? Since no one has seen fit to acknowledge they're disingenuousness the last two times I've pointed this out I'll assume you can't.

The first version says only members of Poseidon will be supported for the purple senate. The second version says PEACE only signatories will be included in the rotation.

It's really not hard to see that the story being told by Stickmen that we changed to the treaty to exclude them is in fact exactly the opposite.

The entire concept of trying to 'control' senate seats is ridiculous. If you have the support of the people in the sphere, ie; those who make up the trades and whose opinion matters most. Then you deserve the seats. Nobody should threaten others for senate seats. It's such a ridiculous concept, and is completely outdated. I support SLCB in their right to elect whomever they goddamn please.

No one is trying to control senate seats. Purple Unity has said from day one that Stickmen have every right in the world to run and win a seat. The only issue has been their methods.

We support their right to elect anyone they can as well. We also reserve the right to elect whomever we can. The difference is we try and respect other alliance's wishes when they specifically ask not to be involved.

[Molleh]

Okay, I'll do it again.

Previous version of the PEACE treaty:

Current version of the PEACE treaty:

Do you see the difference? Since no one has seen fit to acknowledge they're disingenuousness the last two times I've pointed this out I'll assume you can't.

The first version says only members of Poseidon will be supported for the purple senate. The second version says PEACE only signatories will be included in the rotation.

It's really not hard to see that the story being told by Stickmen that we changed to the treaty to exclude them is in fact exactly the opposite.

No one is trying to control senate seats. Purple Unity has said from day one that Stickmen have every right in the world to run and win a seat. The only issue has been their methods.

We support their right to elect anyone they can as well. We also reserve the right to elect whomever we can. The difference is we try and respect other alliance's wishes when they specifically ask not to be involved.

Sure, we'd need to wait six months though. I'm impatient.

Our methods are more successful.

[Jingoist]

No one is trying to control senate seats. Purple Unity has said from day one that Stickmen have every right in the world to run and win a seat. The only issue has been their methods.

We support their right to elect anyone they can as well. We also reserve the right to elect whomever we can. The difference is we try and respect other alliance's wishes when they specifically ask not to be involved.

so we have the right to run a candidate but we aren't allowed to do what it takes to actually get them elected?

what are we supposed to do click our heels together three times and wish real hard for people to vote for him?

what a joke. we have to message people to vote for him otherwise they won't.

don't like it? delete the message. block the sender if you like. but rest assured we're going to do what we please to get our candidate elected whether you like it or not.

it's really very simple.

[Stetson76]

so we have the right to run a candidate but we aren't allowed to do what it takes to actually get them elected?

what are we supposed to do click our heels together three times and wish real hard for people to vote for him?

what a joke. we have to message people to vote for him otherwise they won't.

Right, that's what it's all about.

So, granting the request of Avalon who doesn't vote for anyone specific hurts your plans how?

[The AUT]

The entire concept of trying to 'control' senate seats is ridiculous. If you have the support of the people in the sphere, ie; those who make up the trades and whose opinion matters most. Then you deserve the seats. Nobody should threaten others for senate seats. It's such a ridiculous concept, and is completely outdated. I support SLCB in their right to elect whomever they goddamn please.

And so it's also their right to message PEACE signatories and exploit some uninformed voters to do so as well? There's clearly something more behind this. Way to throw away in credibility you may have had as to actually reading what this thread was really about.

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

And so it's also their right to message PEACE signatories and exploit some uninformed voters to do so as well? There's clearly something more behind this. Way to throw away in credibility you may have had as to actually reading what this thread was really about.

No should ever exploit uninformed voters by telling them what is good or bad. Doing that tends to get people in office!

[spearo]

The first version says only members of Poseidon will be supported for the purple senate. The second version says PEACE only signatories will be included in the rotation.

It's really not hard to see that the story being told by Stickmen that we changed to the treaty to exclude them is in fact exactly the opposite.

As you guys said earlier PEACE changed the treaty to allow M*A*S*H and SNAFU to have a senator just conveniently it still locked Stickmen out of the senate rotation.

[Locke]

As you guys said earlier PEACE changed the treaty to allow M*A*S*H and SNAFU to have a senator just conveniently it still locked Stickmen out of the senate rotation.

It had nothing to do with Stickmen, it was proposed before you even made known your intent to move to the sphere. And again, if you wanted changes made, you could simply ask. If that would have been a stumbling block for you, you could have simply brought up the matter in the Q&A thread for inclusion which, might I add, you never actually made. All of this could have been cleared up then quite easily. And there's also precedent for larger alliances bequeathing their seat to smaller ones, if you had made friends with your spheremates instead of doing things that you knew (and if not then certainly by now) would antagonize and annoy. You could have very easily made a smooth transition to purple, and really not with a great deal of effort. It's just that you seem to have chosen the exact opposite, in fact going out of your way to do so.

[Stetson76]

I should have left a long time ago, but the ignorance of that last post has done it.

The treaty ammendment stipulates a majority of nations being on the sphere. Surprise, surprise for a sphere economic treaty.

If the Stickmen were serious about being on purple the "limitations" would have not been an issue just like they're not for us.

[Shovel]

I should have left a long time ago, but the ignorance of that last post has done it.

The treaty ammendment stipulates a majority of nations being on the sphere. Surprise, surprise for a sphere economic treaty.

If the Stickmen were serious about being on purple the "limitations" would have not been an issue just like they're not for us.

Ignorance? You do realise how stupid your post is?

The 50% limitation is and was not an issue, the issue was having 50 members on purple when at the time iFOK and SLCB didn't even have 50 members and FCO only just had over 50 members. And the whole having to be a member of PEACE for 6 months.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Shovel

[Jingoist]

Right, that's what it's all about.

So, granting the request of Avalon who doesn't vote for anyone specific hurts your plans how?

you're speaking for avalon now?

[Blacky]

No one is trying to control senate seats. Purple Unity has said from day one that Stickmen have every right in the world to run and win a seat. The only issue has been their methods.

Essentially what you're saying is "we support their rights to win a seat, but we have a problem with their methods for winning a seat". That is beyond contradictory. You either support their right or you don't. It's that easy.

[Kryievla]

Essentially what you're saying is "we support their rights to win a seat, but we have a problem with their methods for winning a seat". That is beyond contradictory. You either support their right or you don't. It's that easy.

Just because you support the right of a person to do a thing, does not mean ANY and ALL methods to accomplish a goal are automatically supported too. Jeez.

[Haflinger]

Essentially what you're saying is "we support their rights to win a seat, but we have a problem with their methods for winning a seat". That is beyond contradictory. You either support their right or you don't. It's that easy.

Do you support the methods that noWedge used to hold onto a purple senate seat?

[Sulmar]

Did this really need another thread to argue over the same points?

Let me lay it out for you. Stickmen, you are making a big deal out of the fact that PEACE controls the senate and that you have the right to try and undermine them (which you do), but you cannot say that it wouldn't have been easier to just stay clear of Purple when it is obvious that they would be suspicious of you. Any other color would have been easier to integrate into, and free senate is prevalent in most color spheres. Thus, it is obvious that you went to Purple for the almost sole purpose of creating conflict amongst the other alliances there. You can stop trying to pretend otherwise now. Take pride in your workings, it has obviously created some major issues.

On a side note, I find the way you messaged other alliance's members to vote for you own when you knew that they had their own senate thing going distasteful at best. Your argument about how they should check to make sure it was really true is to me an attempt to place the blame on the on the unknowing members of the other alliances when it is your fault for sending it in the first place. It should be a common courtesy that other alliances do not send out messages in an explicit attempt to manipulate them into voting for your alliance.

[Neo Uruk]

Purple has more small alliances than pretty much any of the spheres outside of Blue and Black. Aqua's nation number advantage is based on the large number of large alliances that are resident there.

Our big four alliances - Legion, UPN, Invicta, M*A*S*H - combine for 955 nations. MHA and RoK are 932 nations. There are plenty more alliances on Aqua that are comparable in size to UPN and Invicta.

There are some alliances that have less than twenty members but are still recognized. Just a heads up that not everyone not in a huge alliance outside of Purple is None.

This is one of the reasons why Purple unity is so remarkable, because it involves a ton of alliances that quite frankly the Stickmen have never heard of but which the rest of us know and talk to.

So, we should work on getting PWNAGE into the spotlight then?

Which results in ludicrous proposals like the one they made to get government members from every single Purple unity alliance online at the same time at a time that was convenient for their governments to be available. For the record, that list currently is:

This list really doesn't have that many small alliances, just saying. If you wanted people to participate in purple sphere, a good start is opening up the senate to allow more competition.

Otherwise, that many alliances having gov on at the same time isn't very impressive (unless nobody in gov lives in the same time zone)

And that's not even mentioning all the other small alliances on Purple who aren't directly involved in Purple unity but are a part of the Purple community nevertheless, like OMFG and Avalon, who they clearly do not know either.

You've only named two, and I doubt I'd really like spending too much time with Avalon considering that I don't get along well with moralists.

Frankly, FCO struck me as making up the majority of the better parts of Stickmen. More active, more intelligent. Liked you guys generally.

You have good vibes on first impression

We tried that, but FOK said no.

Apparently you're the "sensible" leader whose diplomacy never fails, no?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Unavailable Contact

[Starfox101]

I once again voted for Ruyter. He's simply the best.

[Jingoist]

I once again voted for Ruyter. He's simply the best.

would you say that he's better than all the rest?

[Starfox101]

would you say that he's better than all the rest?

Well I mean, saying that isn't saying much. He deserves higher praise. Savior of the Purple sphere, perhaps.

[porksaber]

Just wanted to stop by this thread to mention a few things that come to mind:

1) 28 pages and Haf's still not gettin it.

2) This thread delivers.

3) Vote for Michiel de Ruyter for purple senate!

4) Nothing much to mention here

5) Here either

6) Vote for Michiel de Ruyter for purple senate!

7) Sulmar, it's all good clean fun till we come to your sphere right?

[Molleh]

Just wanted to stop by this thread to mention a few things that come to mind:

1) 28 pages and Haf's still not gettin it.

2) This thread delivers.

3) Vote for Michiel de Ruyter for purple senate!

4) Nothing much to mention here

5) Here either

6) Vote for Michiel de Ruyter for purple senate!

7) Sulmar, it's all good clean fun till we come to your sphere right?

Porksaber always delivers. Could I get a pizza as well? Pineapple as a topping plz.

[Jingoist]

Well I mean, saying that isn't saying much. He deserves higher praise. Savior of the Purple sphere, perhaps.

man I like the way that rolls off the tongue.

[Deadshot]

Allow me to preface this response by saying that my comments are my own and do not reflect the official policy of the NSO.

I don't care for Stickmen too much. I have/had a lot of friends within other purple alliances that are in PEACE/Poseidon/Pegasus. I will try to be as unbias as possible.

That said, this whole situation is a joke. A complete and utter joke. I was in Purple high gov when Stickmen first came to Purple. It is true, some wanted to open you with open arms, others were cautious but open, others wanted war in the event that Stickmen tried anything funny. I was one of them. Not because I hate you guys, but I like war.

When Stickmen decided to mass message purple, I thought "good for them". Why? Because no alliance should have to join a bloc in order to get a senate seat if that's what they wish. Also, if the 1500 or whatever members of PEACE can't beat out a stickmen candidate, then the problem lies with Purple, not stickmen. Furthermore, likening the senate campaign by Stickmen to NSO's recruitment of neutral alliances is laughable at best. If Unity is what Purple strives for and an outside force can come in and disrupt the utopia with a message, then that again, shows poorly on the communication and execution of Purple's own campaign. It's a delete button and it is there for a reason.

After I left purple, I received messages for trade circles from purple nations that were unsolicited. I reside in a brown alliance and here I was the target of mass messaging by purple alliances. I hit the delete button. It worked well.

Stickmen on the other hand, does not show a grasp of public diplomacy by their goading announcements, etc. Is that really a problem though? Nope, it is well within their right as sovereign alliances to conduct their matters as they see fit. Just as it is Purple Unity's right to shun them and move them into a corner of the sphere as outcasts, or to play nicely.

Also, the guise of not infringing on sovereign rights within Purple Unity is ridiculous. Pegasus members get turned down for treaties they wish to sign for reasons such as "no treaties outside of purple". This is probably because it is technically a protectorate bloc but who knows.

In conclusion, Purple should not have even responded to this thread. I have no idea why any of you even bothered. From my viewpoint, it's another verbal victory for Stickmen. The King, nay, God of Purple Stumpy needs to step in and decide who runs for senate. Either that or find a Noah among the sphere and start over.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Wentworth the Brave

[Sulmar]

I'd be fine with you coming to my sphere as long as you don't start messaging my members. White has a free senate.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Sulmar