New Frontier Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 In working with KaitlinK I never discovered anything that really lived up to the hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Frontier Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 You respect someone for something they did over three years ago. That's cool. Check his AA. Some of us actually work with Ivan now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 You respect someone for something they did over three years ago. That's cool. And stuff he did 6 years ago too. Is that a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Frawley. Not sure if he's still considered among the best, but he had a hugely inflated reputation as the head of the Pacifican bank for a really long time. I'd say potato, but everyone already knows he's potato. To those saying Philo, I'll give you that he's been !@#$ while being innactive these last two years or so, but the man has serious potential when he is active. His performance during GW2 on the PR and diplomatic relations front was good all around. I mean remember, his performance there got him recognized to the point where he was promoted from a lowly councilor to IO, as a fairly new member. He was the shining story of meritocracy in the NPO. Shortly following that he had RL issues come up that caused him to take a leave from the game that doesn't seem as though will end anytime soon. I'll probably post more as I think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Frawley. Not sure if he's still considered among the best, but he had a hugely inflated reputation as the head of the Pacifican bank for a really long time.I'd say potato, but everyone already knows he's potato. To those saying Philo, I'll give you that he's been !@#$ while being innactive these last two years or so, but the man has serious potential when he is active. His performance during GW2 on the PR and diplomatic relations front was good all around. I mean remember, his performance there got him recognized to the point where he was promoted from a lowly councilor to IO, as a fairly new member. He was the shining story of meritocracy in the NPO. Shortly following that he had RL issues come up that caused him to take a leave from the game that doesn't seem as though will end anytime soon. I'll probably post more as I think of it. No he wasn't. Dilber was pushing hard for Philo's appointment to IO. You werent in #council then when he was approved for the promotion. Nor were you involved in any of the discussions. I was, and can tell you that it was not Moo's idea to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hard not to just name enemies only in a topic like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 And stuff he did 6 years ago too.Is that a problem? Aww, don't get all upset now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Aww, don't get all upset now. I'm really not, I just don't see why the time since badass accomplishments should diminish an individual in any way. I guess you're trying to be provocative, or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 No he wasn't. Dilber was pushing hard for Philo's appointment to IO. You werent in #council then when he was approved for the promotion. Nor were you involved in any of the discussions. I was, and can tell you that it was not Moo's idea to begin with. Did Dilber have any previous affiliation with Philo prior to him joining NPO/making the effort? Dilber recognizing effort and pushing for a promotion because of it does not necessarily make my statement incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Did Dilber have any previous affiliation with Philo prior to him joining NPO/making the effort?Dilber recognizing effort and pushing for a promotion because of it does not necessarily make my statement incorrect. No, he did not. But Philo did was an excellent salesman. If it was about recognized effort, Rebel Virginia would have made IO instead of Umbrae. The last War Council RV went ahead and made up the squads by hand, without the help of a parser. That's effort and dedication that you don't see. More or less ever. And philo was a colossal dick to those who couldn't serve his purposes. Edit: So yeah, halting structure aside, Philosopher made IO not because of effort or meritocratic principles, but because he caught Dilber's eye. Am I the only one who remembers Philosopher's "recruit me" thread, by the way? Edited October 5, 2009 by Chron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 3 posts before yours... 3 posts. People around here... But you didn't make a case for your argument. You basically just said you didn't like his posting style but didn't give any evidence on why he is overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Despite his faults, Philosopher was possibly the finest diplomat I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Despite his faults, Philosopher was possibly the finest diplomat I've ever seen. They were legion, though. Im not denying the talent he did possess, but that didnt excuse some of the things he did, and the general contempt he often had for others. An extremely specialized individual, yes, but not nearly as deserving of credit as many others give him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homura Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Am I the only one who remembers Philosopher's "recruit me" thread, by the way? That thread was absolutely hilarious. But I think we've all done something ridiculous at one time or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 But you didn't make a case for your argument. You basically just said you didn't like his posting style but didn't give any evidence on why he is overrated. It's pretty hard to just procure 'evidence' of how someone is over-rated.. It's a completely subjective argument. I made as much of a case as I could and had time to, and it was simply ignored by elborrador at the same time he asks someone to try and put a case together... I don't really want to start a big argument about it all, but I just figured I'd point it out to him. And I think you're letting your personal emotions get in the way of rationality (which by the way is why I mentioned you as over-rated too, as far as FA with people you like goes, you're great.. But you're terrible at arguing especially with people you don't like) because my post definitely didn't only mention posting style and I know you really like Grub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 No, he did not. But Philo did was an excellent salesman. If it was about recognized effort, Rebel Virginia would have made IO instead of Umbrae. The last War Council RV went ahead and made up the squads by hand, without the help of a parser. That's effort and dedication that you don't see. More or less ever. And philo was a colossal dick to those who couldn't serve his purposes. Edit: So yeah, halting structure aside, Philosopher made IO not because of effort or meritocratic principles, but because he caught Dilber's eye. Am I the only one who remembers Philosopher's "recruit me" thread, by the way? Oh yeah, I agree for sure that RV should have gotten IO before Umbrae. But I think it's unfair to shortchange Philo's achievements that caught Dilber's eye just because RV didn't have someone at the top pulling for him when he deserved it. At the time Philo got promoted, he was the example of meritocracy working. By the time Anthony, myself, and the others left, it was already fading. By the time Umbrae was promoted? That was pretty much the sign it was dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 It's pretty hard to just procure 'evidence' of how someone is over-rated.. It's a completely subjective argument. I made as much of a case as I could and had time to, and it was simply ignored by elborrador at the same time he asks someone to try and put a case together... I don't really want to start a big argument about it all, but I just figured I'd point it out to him. And I think you're letting your personal emotions get in the way of rationality (which by the way is why I mentioned you as over-rated too, as far as FA with people you like goes, you're great.. But you're terrible at arguing especially with people you don't like) because my post definitely didn't only mention posting style and I know you really like Grub. I watched him move up the ranks of 2 alliances. I watched him in the NAAC, where yes, I put him at the MoD position which baffled everyone. And I didn't do it because he was pretty, I did it because when you put a goal in front of him he finds a way to attain it. And god forbid you tick him off. In Polar he started out as a grunt and worked his way up through leadership and is now the Emperor of the NpO. FFS do you think that is easy to do? You don't become Protector of the NAAC and then Emperor of the NpO by sitting on your rear doing nothing. You do it through hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 At the time Philo got promoted, he was the example of meritocracy working. By the time Anthony, myself, and the others left, it was already fading. By the time Umbrae was promoted? That was pretty much the sign it was dead. Then we'll agree to disagree on this point. I just happen to believe Philo's appointment was the first example of favoritism/cronyism at work, regardless of his own talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I watched him move up the ranks of 2 alliances. I watched him in the NAAC, where yes, I put him at the MoD position which baffled everyone. And I didn't do it because he was pretty, I did it because when you put a goal in front of him he finds a way to attain it. And god forbid you tick him off. In Polar he started out as a grunt and worked his way up through leadership and is now the Emperor of the NpO. FFS do you think that is easy to do? You don't become Protector of the NAAC and then Emperor of the NpO by sitting on your rear doing nothing. You do it through hard work. Airme I think on one of your radio broadcasts we asked the what was then emperor, Electron Sponge, about AlmightyGrub. ES said that AG has worked his way up ever since coming from the NAAC being just a member and semi-trusted to arguably one of the best emperors Polaris has ever had. On top of it, he worked his way up. It's not like they saw he was the most competent and said, "hey AG you lead!" It got passed down to him because he was the best fit for Emperor in the NpO. That's taking nothing, and making it into something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I watched him move up the ranks of 2 alliances. I watched him in the NAAC, where yes, I put him at the MoD position which baffled everyone. And I didn't do it because he was pretty, I did it because when you put a goal in front of him he finds a way to attain it. And god forbid you tick him off. In Polar he started out as a grunt and worked his way up through leadership and is now the Emperor of the NpO. FFS do you think that is easy to do? You don't become Protector of the NAAC and then Emperor of the NpO by sitting on your rear doing nothing. You do it through hard work. I knew of all of that, and I didn't say he did nothing or that he didn't work hard. In fact, I said pretty much the opposite, that he was a good leader. I just don't think he deserves all the credit he seems to get lately for Polar's stellar performance as of late, and I think people forget that he was one of the reasons Polar alienated themselves in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I knew of all of that, and I didn't say he did nothing or that he didn't work hard. In fact, I said pretty much the opposite, that he was a good leader. I just don't think he deserves all the credit he seems to get lately for Polar's stellar performance as of late, and I think people forget that he was one of the reasons Polar alienated themselves in the first place. Of course he doesn't deserve all the credit, all polar government deserve the credit for what Polar did and is doing, nearly all Polaris members deserve the credit too. But without a leader like Grub we could have failed. And if you really think that Grub is one of the reasons of the SPW I just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I knew of all of that, and I didn't say he did nothing or that he didn't work hard. In fact, I said pretty much the opposite, that he was a good leader. I just don't think he deserves all the credit he seems to get lately for Polar's stellar performance as of late, and I think people forget that he was one of the reasons Polar alienated themselves in the first place. No one is giving him full credit for anything. A successful alliance is run by a successful government. A leader is only as good as the people he surrounds himself with. No matter what anyone says, it's always a group effort to make an alliance a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 You facepalm a lot though and I'm beginning to wonder if it's maybe just you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I'd actually agree with those that listed Van Hoo. He had near hero worship status for a while but in dealings with him, especially during the period where MK and Rok weren't getting along, I was underwhelmed. He also got a lot of credit for growing Rok, but that credit always discounted the fact that the alliance grew by mergers, not actual nation building. To me, there's a difference between capturing and importing someone else's alliance growth and actually building it yourself. Growing through mergers has always seemed to me to be the easy way. Well having served under VanHoo from the time Rok was still a relatively small alliance, I can't argue that Rok's growth was basically "The Easy Way" as you put it. Also having witnessed the quick growth of Nemesis, I can't argue that he was worshiped as a hero. I can however tell you that in his prime as a leader, he was very accessible, fair minded, and considerate. So from the outside looking in, I can see how people would have thought of him as overrated, but internally, he was an excellent leader. I guess the only way I can contradict you is to point out that he was relatively unknown when Rok first formed, and the majority of the government and vocal members in the alliance had been around from the early days, so I believe that says quite a bit about his leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) I've had something of a backstage pass to Polaris under AlmightyGrub over the past year and a half. If you have any faith in my judgment, believe me when I say he deserves all the credit he gets and then some. I don't expect that to be immediately obvious without viewing the inner workings of our alliance or knowing Grub personally. Of course it has been a team effort. We all contributed what we could, from the Emperor to the member, and there has never been any desire to divvy up the credit, but if there was you can be sure Grub would have come out with plenty of it. It took a strong and steady hand to ease Polaris back into the global community from the state we were left in, to calm short-sighted internal interests, to ease the fears of foreign alliances, to always try to see the world objectively even in the most emotionally charged circumstances, to maintain old talent and find new talent, to juggle being both a sovereign leader and a team player, and all the while to keep everyone united and in high spirits while there wasn't really a lot to be cheerful about. It'd be a shame to discount all of that because of a few negative impressions you got from him before he was Emperor, but not to worry he never cared much for recognition so I don't think he'll lose sleep over it. Edited October 6, 2009 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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