VE congratulates im317 and Eledan!

[sethb]

I wouldn't pay any attention to the spy, Desperado, Sol.

[Dylan Carter]

Probably in poor taste and shouldn't have been posted here, but I thought it was funny. I think a lot of the posts in this thread simply show that far too many of the people in this game's community are just looking for something to be offended by.

[King Srqt]

That's what I thought, which is why I was a bit puzzled by people claiming you guys were going to hit IS.

I don't think anyone said they were going to hit IS, I at least know that I did not. I said they were willing to support CG which they were seeing as though they supported TJO in our decision to support CG and pledged assistance if we were hit based on said support.

They did not try and dissuade us from helping them and were ready to fight if that is what helping them came to. I would classify that as being ready to back up CG wouldn't you?

And that whole situation really shows how much character VE does have since they were willing to support our decision to help CG even if they do not especially like them.

[deth2munkies]

Tch. This thing happens all the time behind closed doors, but it's never supposed to be displayed publicly. All those who are claiming "holier than thou" status can't deny that they've mocked or laughed at the mockery of other alliances behind closed doors. The concept isn't new nor particularly terrible, it's just not something that you announce publicly.

[Haflinger]

I don't think anyone said they were going to hit IS, I at least know that I did not. I said they were willing to support CG which they were seeing as though they supported TJO in our decision to support CG and pledged assistance if we were hit based on said support.

Yeah, not you. The usual suspects, you know - people who like to talk, once again proving their lack of usefulness.

For an alliance like VE or Invicta to hit IS directly would have been stupidly massive overkill, which would have been justified possibly in other circumstances, but not in these ones.

[Eledan]

Tch. This thing happens all the time behind closed doors, but it's never supposed to be displayed publicly. All those who are claiming "holier than thou" status can't deny that they've mocked or laughed at the mockery of other alliances behind closed doors. The concept isn't new nor particularly terrible, it's just not something that you announce publicly.

This is true. I'd like to say for my part that I never expected or wanted this to go public. It was a joke between friends that started on our community forums. Personally, I just saw a thread and an opportunity to aid some of my comrades in VE so I took it. I don't dislike CG, or most of their members. Most of VE knew though that some of the top gov members were a bit unstable and probably weren't going to last that long. So we had this little fun. I didn't expect to win and I probably didn't even want to win. Most of the people in this pool probably just saw an opportunity to have fun and help out their fellow members.

Say what you will about posting this on the OWF, it was a bad idea and should not have been done. (goldie). However, this has become just a reason to try to slander all of VE for poking a little fun at past animosity. Take it for what you will but it has nothing to do with the entente at large.

[Goldie]

yes, i was dumb, etc etc.

[Daimos]

I admire VE officials and OP in admitting posting this to the public was a mistake.

Good job on damage control.

[RyanGDI]

Very interesting indeed.

Glad to see that this is what composes the coalition that invaded our alliance, only to say that the circumstances were only "unfortunate" and "un-necessary" and seemingly regretful. I wouldn't be surprised if similar circumstances had happened for our war.

While my feelings for CG may be mixed based on their actions, this is just distasteful from who are supposed to be one of the leading alliances in this game. These actions only go forth to show how the minds of the people who control a good chunk of CN's political and physical firepower react to situations. Congrats.

(And by the way...about Viridian government trying to cover this up: if this was a betting pool, how did people learn about this and become involved? It was obviously over a public/membership IRC channel, or forums. Regardless, it had to have been a place where VE government would have been able to see it. For you to stand by and allow your members/government to act with this level of indecency only shows that you support it, one degree or another.)

Edited August 27, 2009 by RyanGDI

[King Srqt]

(And by the way...about Viridian government trying to cover this up: if this was a betting pool, how did people learn about this and become involved? It was obviously over a public/membership IRC channel, or forums. Regardless, it had to have been a place where VE government would have been able to see it. For you to stand by and allow your members/government to act with this level of indecency only shows that you support it, one degree or another.)

(to reference back to an earlier post) Do you think the American Government supports the KKK?

[RyanGDI]

(to reference back to an earlier post) Do you think the American Government supports the KKK?

In all reality, personal agendas of government included...who knows? By the way, you forgot (OOC) tags.

[Locke]

In all reality, personal agendas of government included...who knows? By the way, you forgot (OOC) tags.

By the way, you forgot that this is an OOC forum. And that he's right.

[RyanGDI]

By the way, you forgot that this is an OOC forum. And that he's right.

Mmmkay, right. My apologies on that much.

[Bill Wallace]

(And by the way...about Viridian government trying to cover this up: if this was a betting pool, how did people learn about this and become involved? It was obviously over a public/membership IRC channel, or forums. Regardless, it had to have been a place where VE government would have been able to see it. For you to stand by and allow your members/government to act with this level of indecency only shows that you support it, one degree or another.)

Have you read the whole thread? No one is trying to cover anything up. The bet was posted on our forums. There actually was a post in that thread from one government member who stated that it wasn't a good idea. But, VE allows a lot of latitude to it's membership on what they can post, but that doesn't mean government agrees with everything that any Tom, Dick, or Harry puts up there. Besides, you should see some of the stuff Hellscream has posted on our forums. He's crossed the line so many times, I've lost count. Most of it's funny, some of it isn't, but he's pushed the envelope more than anyone in VE.

[RyanGDI]

Have you read the whole thread? No one is trying to cover anything up. The bet was posted on our forums. There actually was a post in that thread from one government member who stated that it wasn't a good idea. But, VE allows a lot of latitude to it's membership on what they can post, but that doesn't mean government agrees with everything that any Tom, Dick, or Harry puts up there. Besides, you should see some of the stuff Hellscream has posted on our forums. He's crossed the line so many times, I've lost count. Most of it's funny, some of it isn't, but he's pushed the envelope more than anyone in VE.

Actually, I only read the first 7 pages for lulz. I figured the rest was just repeats of the same stuff.

At the very least, VE needs to be more careful about what threads get posted on here in regards to alliance/member affairs. Not actual posts (since those are opinions/arguments of individuals), but topics themselves. Not in the name of censorship, but to prevent things like these from causing controversy. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with Hellscream through, since I don't know him well.

[lakerzz8]

Based on Fran's and Hell Scream's assumptions that every single member dictates the whole alliance's policy. I take it that all of NPO is angry and upset with VE and something will be done about this? (Nothing against NPO, but seeing as how they are both your members, according to their own rules, they make up the NPO culture and represent the NPO in every single thing they say and do).

[Eledan]

Very interesting indeed.

Glad to see that this is what composes the coalition that invaded our alliance, only to say that the circumstances were only "unfortunate" and "un-necessary" and seemingly regretful. I wouldn't be surprised if similar circumstances had happened for our war.

While my feelings for CG may be mixed based on their actions, this is just distasteful from who are supposed to be one of the leading alliances in this game. These actions only go forth to show how the minds of the people who control a good chunk of CN's political and physical firepower react to situations. Congrats.

(And by the way...about Viridian government trying to cover this up: if this was a betting pool, how did people learn about this and become involved? It was obviously over a public/membership IRC channel, or forums. Regardless, it had to have been a place where VE government would have been able to see it. For you to stand by and allow your members/government to act with this level of indecency only shows that you support it, one degree or another.)

Please don't try to relate this to your situation. The war with GDI was based solely on you jockeying for war. We tried to resolve the issue and you did not cooperate. This event has nothing to do with the other.

And for the NPO members trying to paint us as evil dictators of the world, I would like to say that I've taken two nukes to protect your nations and reduced a rogue to nothing to help you. True this was not supposed to be public and was not government sanctioned, but dislike is allowed in this game. Most of VE does not like Fran or HS. Anyone in VE can tell you that and they could tell you themselves. The feeling is mutual. When a new alliance is started that has both of them as leading government members our opinion of them is not going to be high. The NPO and countless other alliances hold grudges against alliances based on their leadership. Granted, most things such as this stay private. However, of course a !@#$storm erupts when something like this goes public. I'm glad that everyone who dislikes us for whatever reason got more moral firepower. If this event changed your feeling towards VE from either a good opinion or a neutral opinion to a bad one please message me on IRC or PM. I want to sort out what exactly you have a problem with and see if it can be mended. I am only a VE member, but I would sincerely like to try to right any falsities out there.

[Il Impero Romano]

It's pretty rare you see me liking an Impero post. This is one of those times.

Careful, don't let it become a habit

Oh, please. I destroyed my nation for the Viridian Entente. I lost over 90% of my NS in your wars and took 16 nukes. I expected no reparations and received none. My nation is still feeling the effects. I left because my conscience no longer permitted me to remain in Viridia, *after* all the hard fighting was done. I took on three of MCXA's government simultaneously- two of their Chancellors and their Minister of Finances. I fought them by myself as there was no backup until Nueva Vida arrived. And guess what? NV pitched in because I asked them to! They even switched targets from IRON! I then went on to fight so many Pacificans I lost count, including Moo, Bilrow and Mary. I ZIed Bilrow and Moo, and did everything I could in the war. Stop trying to make me out to be a traitor to the Entente, because really, I'm not.

Strangely enough, I don't enjoy being the centre of drama in Cyber Nations because I get grief for it. You think I enjoy the hate-filled queries I get all the time on IRC? The aggression on these forums? Drama just seems to follow me, for example I never expected the Popcorn War to get so much publicity.

Yes, those fifteen highly active members constitute part of VE's culture. Every single member does.

Francesca, you know I have no personal issue with you and never have, but come on...

Your nation was destroyed not for us, but for the goal to which you worked towards for so long, the destruction of Pacifica. You fought like every other nation of VE, and those of so many other alliances, and its important you do not think for a second your individual efforts are not appreciated. However, consider what you are saying. It may be hard to bare, but you CMing the last bit of infra on an opposing leader is possible only because others got them there, and its no different then firing a missile at any other nation. Therefore, you do not deserve any more recognition for your effort then any other nation because of it. Hundreds of other Viridians took on 6 nations at a time as well, in many cases all above their strength level. Furthermore, NV did not make a decision because you asked them to...I wont go into detail obviously, but they decided their course of action before you spoke with them about it (believe me, I was there).

If you actually think these things to be true, then I think I finally see why you have so many out there who have so much distaste for you. Now don't get me wrong, I still like you just fine, as I'm not bothered by things that don't concern me. But perhaps you may want to take a step back and consider why statements like the one I quoted above and things like implying that you forced IS to their knees single-handedly by forcing them to sign humiliating terms and pay reparations make people cringe in embarrassment for you. Then, consider for a moment why some members of our active base dislike you so much...you will find the answers are one in the same.

You know that our government would never, ever, ever, condone something like this OP. For you to say otherwise is an outright lie. You know that this is a just plain stupid move by goldie and the members of the betting pool alone, not Virdia, and because you know me you know that I have thoroughly let him know about it...and once again for you to say otherwise is an outright lie. You spent enough time in our alliance and communicating with our leaders to understand what we value and grasp the ideals we strive for as an alliance, and you know none of them are displayed here. Yes, much of our members dislike you personally for the way you acted over the aid incident, your manner of leaving, and the general attitude you showed day to day as exemplified above, but your negative sentiment towards our alliance as a whole pains me to see.

I understand this world is more interesting with something to rail against, a cause to fight for if you will. However, finding a cause while one is not there will only make one look bad, and nothing more. From the moment I saw you say you left VE because your "conscience would not let you stay after the terms that were offered to NPO", after telling me a while ago that you were leaving to found an alliance with some friends (i.e. CG), I feared there was a deeper reasoning in your words beyond their face value. Fighting for the underdog, while interesting and morally satisfying, only is appropriate when there is something to fight against. The former alliances of Karma/NPO Front/Whatever have not given cause, despite the fact that it would give you something to do, to be seen as "oppressors" of anything. Remember, if one spends their time fighting for a cause that does not exist, they are not satisfying their sense of morality, but are satisfying their egos instead. I sincerely hope your comments and actions as of late are not indicative of that.

Finally, I would like to offer you an apology on behalf of Virdia's membership. While this classless act was in no way officially sanctioned, nor did it involve government members of any kind (and as you were a former member you know that Dep is not a gov spot, plus goldies appointment to Dep was last week), the OP violates the code of honor that we try to instill in our members and as such I feel you are owed an apology on behalf of us all. The only thing that I ask is you see this for what it is, a few people being stupid, and not let it reflect on our alliance as a whole.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Il Impero Romano

[Rickyman1984]

Was this blown out of propotion? Maybe. But that apology was a very classy and honorable way to resolve this.

o/ VE

[Duluoz]

Quite honestly I laughed.

BUT I AM STILL OUTRAGED. Outraged at the fact that this pool wasn't open to the rest of us, of course. I demand more pools of this nature in the future that we can all participate in. Next alliance should be those TYR guys. I for one don't think they stand a chance in hell.

Posts like this are the real reason Goldie posted this thread. As you can see from his response in CG's disbandment notice, the man has a very serious gambling problem:

anyone in for a pool? i have 3 weeks of this current alliance lasting, and then this person will probably join some citadel alliance as its the only bridge she pretty much has left untouched.

Goldie has started literally dozens of pools on the VE forums and he rarely wins. He's taken out a third mortgage on his nation and some loan sharks are looking for him. Evidently he now wants to expand his pools to people outside the alliance in hopes of bigger payoffs.

We ask that everyone refrain from enabling his addiction while we get him the treatment he needs.

[Goldie]

ILL HAVE THE MONEY I PROMISE IVE GOT SOME BACK COLLECTIONS COMING IN DONT BREAK MY LEGS

ill say it again, i was dumb, and im sorry. momentary lapse of judgement gave me some of the laughs i was looking for, but brought some undesired crap that others have had to deal with in here.

i apologize to hs because i still love him and he still loves me and deserves an apology, and i apologize to crimson guard as a whole, who had members i genuinely liked like hs and tiger.

[Ephriam Grey]

This is pretty funny, coming from one of the architects of the ideological purges of the past.

Which just goes to show how broad VE's community is.

[scythegfx]

Better kept private.

Good idea for next time: If no one wins the pool, then CG(or alliance poll is made for) gets the entire pool.

[SpacingOutMan]

ILL HAVE THE MONEY I PROMISE IVE GOT SOME BACK COLLECTIONS COMING IN DONT BREAK MY LEGS

ill say it again, i was dumb, and im sorry. momentary lapse of judgement gave me some of the laughs i was looking for, but brought some undesired crap that others have had to deal with in here.

i apologize to hs because i still love him and he still loves me and deserves an apology, and i apologize to crimson guard as a whole, who had members i genuinely liked like hs and tiger.

Don't apologize. People just like getting their panties in a bunch for no reason.

[Chalaskan]

Parliament is the Government. Positions listed there are not position within the parliament.

Thanks for the 2, bro!

Aww, yeah.

Your welcome, you should learn from someone who has been down your pathvvvv

Heck, I'm certainly a scoundrel. However, Hellscream, I hope you do know we're not -all- laughing at you. I don't keep up on politics much, I'm not even sure why/when you left Viridia, but you were a good warrior and brother-in-arms while you were here - Francesca was the same, in my book.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that way. Don't categorize us all by the actions of a few - regardless of how tasteful or distasteful they may be. VE is a very broad community, that opens its doors to competent people from all corners of Planet Bob. Just because some of us are gambling on the misfortunes of others doesn't mean that all of us are.

Goldie's not really a veteran of VE leadership - he's one of our rising stars, and from what I know of him, he's a good soldier and officer. Admittedly he ****ed up here, but I don't believe his intent was to mock you (I'm afraid I can't say the same thing for all Viridians, we both know there's some deep tensions here).

My apologizes, mate.

I respect a man that has learned from his past. Well said Ephriam

This is pretty funny, coming from one of the architects of the ideological purges of the past.

We all mature, holding a past as a grudge for so long does no good. I'm sure you have made mistakes IC and OOC tremendously at one point in your life. Doesn't mean you are still that person.