The Moldavi Doctrine

[Krunk the Great]

Oh, but we have to have secrets up our sleeves around every corner Miasma, didn't you know that?

[Bleda]

For an announcement stating what everyone else should already know Ivan sure did get all the kiddie's diapers in a bunch.

[mmansfield68]

For an announcement stating what everyone else should already know Ivan sure did get all the kiddie's diapers in a bunch.

Ivan is CyberNations. This is the Ivan Moldavi Show - and I love it!

[Heft]

This is one of the worst thing to ever happen in CyberNations.

Nothing comes close.

This totally regard treaties as if they never exist.

You're awesome.

It's good to see that the kool-aid Ivan is serving over in his compound is having such a strong effect on his people. They genuinely seem to think that there is kind of righteousness to this announcement. Congrats, Ivan. It's unfortunate for you though, that the world at large is not as star struck as your loyal following. You're going to have to work just a bit harder if you wish to become the old Ivan once again.

For this announcement I rate your:

1) power lust - 7/10 - You really really like attention, don't you?

2) originality - 1/10 - Seriously? A document that says you can attack whoever you see fit when you see necessary? This is soooo 2 years ago.

3) relevance - 2/10 - The only reason you didn't get a one here is because you're Ivan. Congrats on that, I guess.

Now I see a 10/30 overall score here. Fear not, though. If this were baseball, you'd be a top slugger.

First, Kool-Aid is a pretty awesome beverage. Secondly, I give your reading comprehension skills a 3/10, mostly based on the bolded portion.

Of course it doesn't. Didn't you read the damn thing?

Try harder to what? Looks like the perfect opportunity to assert your sovereignty, show all the people that think this is all a bunch of hot air.

No, not this time? Wars don't come too often you know. Not in this glorious age of Pax Karmanica.

If the Jedi believe GDI are being unjustly attacked then they are free to rise up in their defense. Of course, that would require you to actually take action, something I understand the Jedi have a certain degree of difficulty with.

[Corinan]

Of course, that would require you to actually take action, something I understand the Jedi have a certain degree of difficulty with.

C'mon Heft, that's not fair. They take action all the time. Popping up in every NSO related thread to make snide comments counts as action, right?

[Hoping]

C'mon Heft, that's not fair. They take action all the time. Popping up in every NSO related thread to make snide comments counts as action, right?

Keep trying to provoke us please. Its funny.

Sal has it right. What happens now that there is a DoW? Do you take your chance? Will you post saying you don't invoke the doctrine if you decide not too?

[TehChron]

Keep trying to provoke us please. Its funny.

Sal has it right. What happens now that there is a DoW? Do you take your chance? Will you post saying you don't invoke the doctrine if you decide not too?

Well, I personally think GDI has it coming.

Therefore, to be just would be coming in on VE's side and curbstomping them. To be fair, though, wed have to ask VE if they wanted our help first.

[Daverice]

I think if NSO really wanted to exercise this Doctrine in respect to VE/GDI, they'd declare on Ryan for hanging his alliance out to dry and being a shoddy leader.

But I'm sure there would be complaints about that too. Some people just can't be pleased.

*shakes fist at Chron*

Edited August 14, 2009 by Daverice

[Sal Paradise]

If the Jedi believe GDI are being unjustly attacked then they are free to rise up in their defense. Of course, that would require you to actually take action, something I understand the Jedi have a certain degree of difficulty with.

Who said anything about the attack being unjust? This doctrine asserts the right to bandwagon in on aggressive wars as well.

C'mon Heft, that's not fair. They take action all the time. Popping up in every NSO related thread to make snide comments counts as action, right?

My apologies. How rude of me to drag my inactive self into this action-packed announcement. I think I do a pretty good job of avoiding all the nonstop NSO action going on in your weekly wars on coherent prose. You know those ones about peace being a lie and colour unity being evil, etc. Just too much world changing excitement going on there for this lethargic little Jedi. I'm surprised the rest of planet Bob hasn't been begging you guys to slow down. So much upheaval lately.

[Heft]

Who said anything about the attack being unjust? This doctrine asserts the right to bandwagon in on aggressive wars as well.

Again, if you feel the need to support VE's cause through direct military action then that's your decision to make. We clearly don't and acting like you're making some sort of a point here is just ignorant.

[Sal Paradise]

Again, if you feel the need to support VE's cause through direct military action then that's your decision to make. We clearly don't and acting like you're making some sort of a point here is just ignorant.

Acting like I'm making a point is ignorant? What the hell does that even mean?

[TehChron]

Acting like I'm making a point is ignorant? What the hell does that even mean?

He was saying you were arguing from a position of ignorance, and your point was without merit.

[Sal Paradise]

He was saying you were arguing from a position of ignorance, and your point was without merit.

I thought he was saying I wasn't making a point but acting like I was.

As a matter of fact, he was right about the former and wrong about the latter.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Sal Paradise

[TehChron]

I thought he was saying I wasn't making a point but acting like I was.

As a matter of fact, he was right about the former and wrong about the latter.

Well...

/leshrug

[Wing Chun Stunna]

First, Kool-Aid is a pretty awesome beverage. Secondly, I give your reading comprehension skills a 3/10, mostly based on the bolded portion.

Just because my interpretation is not what the kool-aid package says at sith HQ, does not make me illiterate.

[TehChron]

Just because my interpretation is not what the kool-aid package says at sith HQ, does not make me illiterate.

Actually, you're right.

Your being illiterate has nothing to do with how it was written in the English language at all whatsoever.

[Tygaland]

Who said anything about the attack being unjust? This doctrine asserts the right to bandwagon in on aggressive wars as well.

Seeing as the introduction to the Moldavi Doctrine 2.0 states that the doctrine itself is to make known to the Cyberverse their naturally possessed "right to act justly in the interests of themselves, their friends, and their allies" it may well be that the NSO does not believe this conflict impacts the interests of the themselves, their friends or their allies. Therefore the doctrine is not enacted in this case.

I'm pretty sure inane badgering by the likes of yourself will not coerce them into abandoning the principles of the doctrine no matter how hard you try.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Keep trying to provoke us please. Its funny.

Sal has it right. What happens now that there is a DoW? Do you take your chance? Will you post saying you don't invoke the doctrine if you decide not too?

Wait, you think we are trying to provoke you? How is that even possible in this context? Have members of the NSO come into Jedi threads repeatedly with extraneous commentary that doesn't concern them? No. I believe the provocateur in this instance is very clear.

As to the other commentary regarding the new VE conflict against GDI, I personally find it to be a Just war. If other alliances think differently and seek harm to VE because of it then we will assess our potential action accordingly.

To clarify, this is not some pronouncement of NSO involvement in the VE/GDI conflict. It is not even a statement of support for either party or confirmation of any discussion on our part towards either party. It is a statement that we will honor the Doctrine and act in accordance with it if and when we deem it necessary.

[Gn0xious Jr]

As to the other commentary regarding the new VE conflict against GDI, I personally find it to be a Just war. If other alliances think differently and seek harm to VE because of it then we will assess our potential action accordingly.

To clarify, this is not some pronouncement of NSO involvement in the VE/GDI conflict. It is not even a statement of support for either party or confirmation of any discussion on our part towards either party. It is a statement that we will honor the Doctrine and act in accordance with it if and when we deem it necessary.

Ivan, I'm shocked...

How dare you declare a doctrine that basically says NSO will assess future conflicts and determine IF there will be action in the interests of NSO, her friends, or her allies (or his o.O)

How do you, from there, have the stomach to come in here and say that you WILL assess or are assessing current conflicts to determine if any potential action is necessary?

This out of line, even for NSO. Please stop making sense!

[PrideAssassin]

We are heroes.

The Dark Lord is rarely so subtle as you seem to believe. The history of the NSO to date would also seem to say that we are, as an alliance, not usually very subtle. But if you'd like to accord us even more impressive attributes than we actually have, I suppose I shouldn't stop you.

Cacophony can mask subtlety though. Misdirection. Bomb an empty building in one half of town, rob a bank in the other while everyone is tied up. To illustrate.

[Pmac627]

It's not a treaty, so of course nobody else signed it.

However several alliance leaders posted their agreement with it in principle in the thread. You'd know that if you read it.

This is true. It is not a treaty. However, it has been kindly referred to as an oAoDP in this thread by many people, so it worked as a familiar term. And perhaps referring to it as a treaty, as opposed to a doctrine, was poor choice of words.

My answers and posts do not in any way have to reflect every thing that has been said in this thread. Otherwise, this would be one really long post. Yes, leaders have posted in agreement, but posting in agreement means nothing to the politics of CN or really the real world. Therefore, I see no need to acknowledge their remarks. They will be all in support of it until it comes to bite them in the $@!, then they will hate it.

NSO doesn't have much to back up this... doctrine. They will enter wars they have no part in a few times, until they piss someone bigger off, then they will be the third order to get reduced to a fraction of its size. The original Moldavi Doctrine had a little bit more weight to it because there were limitations and expectations written into it. This new one is as useful as the Monroe Doctrine, which in principle sounded great, but it only "worked" because at that point, the European powers weren't in a position to actually cause much trouble. When they did, USA yelled at them and did nothing.

Condescending posts like "Go sit in a corner and think about what you have done" just show you have no real idea of what the document says and will lead to. That or you want to make yourself look cool like you are "one of the guys" in NSO. My argument is in support of what hormones said in the beginning of the discussion, which he was hit with lots of idiotic comments like the above. It might work well for awhile, but eventually it will screw NSO over and probably her allies too. CN is cyclical by choice of the players. People will allow it to go on for only so long. Mandate of Heaven, baby.

A translation of the treaty without the fluff.

NSO sees the uselessness of signing an ODP or OAP or TOAD or oAoDP, etc. because why officially say you can do something when you are just gunna do it. Oh snap! Thats what this is!

Article I

NSO can help anyone in a defensive war and vice versa.

Article II

NSO can help anyone in an offensive war and vice versa.

Article III

If the NSO finds out about anything thats gunna happen, they can tell those in danger and vice versa.

Article IV

It doesn't die out until everyone decides they can do the same.

Article V

NSO will only use this in "Just" conflicts, which it decides what is "Just". This is not vice-versa.

Article VI

NSO will say "here we come" before doing something.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Pmac627

[Ivan Moldavi]

This is true. It is not a treaty. However, it has been kindly referred to as an oAoDP in this thread by many people, so it worked as a familiar term. And perhaps referring to it as a treaty, as opposed to a doctrine, was poor choice of words.

My answers and posts do not in any way have to reflect every thing that has been said in this thread. Otherwise, this would be one really long post. Yes, leaders have posted in agreement, but posting in agreement means nothing to the politics of CN or really the real world. Therefore, I see no need to acknowledge their remarks. They will be all in support of it until it comes to bite them in the $@!, then they will hate it.

NSO doesn't have much to back up this... doctrine. They will enter wars they have no part in a few times, until they piss someone bigger off, then they will be the third order to get reduced to a fraction of its size. The original Moldavi Doctrine had a little bit more weight to it because there were limitations and expectations written into it. This new one is as useful as the Monroe Doctrine, which in principle sounded great, but it only "worked" because at that point, the European powers weren't in a position to actually cause much trouble. When they did, USA yelled at them and did nothing.

Condescending posts like "Go sit in a corner and think about what you have done" just show you have no real idea of what the document says and will lead to. That or you want to make yourself look cool like you are "one of the guys" in NSO. My argument is in support of what hormones said in the beginning of the discussion, which he was hit with lots of idiotic comments like the above. It might work well for awhile, but eventually it will screw NSO over and probably her allies too. CN is cyclical by choice of the players. People will allow it to go on for only so long. Mandate of Heaven, baby.

A translation of the treaty without the fluff.

Your "translation" is fairly accurate.

Plus, you make some valid points.

You see, while my ego is incredibly large and my hubris knows no bounds, ultimately, I am a realist. I know that the NSO isn't necessarily in a position to be the "world police" or to effectively dictate terms to the Cyberverse at large via this Doctrine. Such presumption on your part is accurate but misguided, as that has never been the point.

What is true, however, is that while we may not be militarily capable of steering a large conflict we are sizable enough to perhaps tip the scales towards one party or another in a major conflict. 100 fresh nations do not a global war make, but they might amount to the final deathblow just the same.

This, of course, is from the perspective that the NSO is "inconsequential" and otherwise a non-factor in regards to the global diplomatic superstructure, with no influence whatsoever. We all know that is true, right?

Edited August 15, 2009 by Ivan Moldavi

[Pmac627]

You see, while my ego is incredibly large and my hubris knows no bounds, ultimately, I am a realist. I know that the NSO isn't necessarily in a position to be the "world police" or to effectively dictate terms to the Cyberverse at large via this Doctrine. Such presumption on your part is accurate but misguided, as that has never been the point.

What is true, however, is that while we may not be militarily capable of steering a large conflict we are sizable enough to perhaps tip the scales towards one party or another in a major conflict. 100 fresh nations do not a global war make, but they might amount to the final deathblow just the same.

Ego large? Well, its hard to not let an ego grow in this game. Many have ones far too big. Yours is rightly driven to a very large size due to many factors, including your previous successes and the amount of people who love you IC. You follow ideology, one which you have headed up yourself in this game, to the T. I'm still impressed at your ability to manipulate the game throughout its 3+ years. As I am sure you will take it, this was in fact meant as a compliment. My "translation" was not 100% based on what the print reads, but mixed with a hint of the inevitable. A fool believes history repeats itself. It does not. Every instance in history is never the same. We focus on the similarities and ignore the differences which generally far outweigh them. Unlike most history, there are key links between your previous alliances and NSO that lead me to believe that eventually, it will end for the worse. Then again, in this game, what doesn't?

NSO has as much a chance to tip the balance or start a global war as Ether does. We are 1/10 the size, but just as able to spark a conflict. Perhaps I am being too hopeful in to believing that you will agree that after all is said and done, every war in CN was started by 1 nation, 1 ruler. It doesn't take more than 100 nations to start a global war. It takes more than 100 nations to make a war global. Anyway, I'm slipping in and out of IC/OCC dialogs in this post, so I will finish.

I am impressed that the only response I got was that of the author himself. Perhaps we will get an opportunity to discuss ideologies and viewpoints on IRC sometime.

[Taishaku]

This is the stupidest non-doctrine ever. Might as well call it the "Redundant Claim of Independence" doctrine.

[Ivan Moldavi]

This is the stupidest non-doctrine ever. Might as well call it the "Redundant Claim of Independence" doctrine.

Thank you for your input. It will be properly reviewed and filed with the rest of the rubbish.