Statement of Friendship

[scythegfx]

HeinousOne, I'm starting to like you more and more.

But I doubt Karma would allow such a thing.

[Ejayrazz]

Perhaps that is why Invicta felt the need to do this. Due to the conditions of all that happened they wanted it clear they were still friends even though they did not stick it out like TPF and were able to get out of the war with little after cost. That might appear to some that they were looking to distance themselves from NPO.

So while it might be more convincing to see TPF make this, that would be because they don't have to make a thread like this due to their situation. So to me that seems a strange issue for people to have. What is the point in stating the obvious?

I understand where you are coming from with this, real friends would stick it through together throughout the war - with this assertion of yours, I agree entirely. However, making a thread over friendship isn't something redundant giving the mitigating circumstances of NPOs' state. I agree with Invicta if it feels the need to produce such words of encouragement to their allies, but I also agree with Heinous when he states if it was 'true', they would have stuck through the war longer. If I comprehend this correctly, I understand both, but I agree more so with Heinous. Don't speak, act. What I do not agree with is people mindlessly attacking the thread merely for attention or calling Invicta unnecessary names in which are meant to get them pissed off (Not you Henous), which doesn't really add to anything. But one thing I do not call them is illogical - if they wish to support an ally verbally, all the power to them.

I approve of your thought and style in this last page, Heinous.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[He Who Has No Name]

Please note that in accordance with NPO's terms of surrender, this statement does not constitute an official treaty.

If you actually expect anybody to believe that ----, I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

Invicta... The utter stupidity of associating, at this time, in this manner, with the alliance you've chosen to do so with... it just stuns me. The weapons grade stupid is spreading. This would have been a "brilliant move" three months ago. Have you been ASLEEP for the last few months or something? Do you guys take long strolls in marked quicksand areas, too?

Invicta, what you've just announced is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, asinine posturing were you even close to anything that could be considered a smart idea. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Sequoia Throne]

If you actually expect anybody to believe that ----, I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

Invicta... The utter stupidity of associating, at this time, in this manner, with the alliance you've chosen to do so with... it just stuns me. The weapons grade stupid is spreading. This would have been a "brilliant move" three months ago. Have you been ASLEEP for the last few months or something? Do you guys take long strolls in marked quicksand areas, too?

Invicta, what you've just announced is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, asinine posturing were you even close to anything that could be considered a smart idea. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Lessons on intelligence and diplomacy from none other than FAN... Now I know Invicta has made the smart choice here.

[Zeta Defender]

Perhaps Invicta will give us a show of their friendship and move some nations to the NPO AA to help with payments? Now That would be a showing of friendship that no one could deny.

Honestly I don't think Karma would be that stupid to fall for it. Considering they attacked Pansy after peace occurred for reps he sent during the war it seems unlikely them to allow this.

[BamaBuc]

If you actually expect anybody to believe that ----, I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

Invicta... The utter stupidity of associating, at this time, in this manner, with the alliance you've chosen to do so with... it just stuns me. The weapons grade stupid is spreading. This would have been a "brilliant move" three months ago. Have you been ASLEEP for the last few months or something? Do you guys take long strolls in marked quicksand areas, too?

Invicta, what you've just announced is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, asinine posturing were you even close to anything that could be considered a smart idea. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Has it crossed your mind that Invicta knows this and doesn't care? That politics weren't the motivation here? That they did this out of friendship? They know NPO isn't the cool kid anymore, but they did this anyway.

-Bama

[scythegfx]

If you actually expect anybody to believe that ----, I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

Invicta... The utter stupidity of associating, at this time, in this manner, with the alliance you've chosen to do so with... it just stuns me. The weapons grade stupid is spreading. This would have been a "brilliant move" three months ago. Have you been ASLEEP for the last few months or something? Do you guys take long strolls in marked quicksand areas, too?

Invicta, what you've just announced is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, asinine posturing were you even close to anything that could be considered a smart idea. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thank you Principal.

But really I think that NPO is just a puppy who lost It's way. So we want to be here for that puppy to guide it back in a positive direction =)

[George the Great]

I thought I'd just like to comment on the !@#$@#$ hypocrisy of the Karma people in this announcement, the sorts of people who commended sticking up for your friends, especially when inconvenient. How can you go from supporting people like STA and Nueva Vida for backing Polar in the War of the Coalition, or perhaps IAA for fighting to the death for their allies against NPO, to jeering and mocking Invicta for having the sheer balls required to make this sort of announcement? I didn't really have an opinion on Invicta before, they were never on my radar, but I respect them enormously for this. There is such a thing as gracious victory, why don't we set the Pacificans an example, and demonstrate to them exactly what they did wrong?

Might I ask you what we fought for, brothers?

It's one thing to stick by an ally when it's inconvenient. Like when an ally is inconveniently targeted by a far larger alliance/group of alliances and is being attacked. It's another thing when your ally conveniently targets a far smaller alliance and attacks them, during peace negotiations, no less. It's not a matter of convenience at that point, it's a matter of conscience. Granted, if you knew about what your ally was doing and you had absolutely no problem with it, then you damn well better stick by their side because you're just as much to blame. If you didn't know what exactly was going on/weren't informed by your ally and you merely found out ex post facto, then are they really your friend?

[scythegfx]

We had nothing to do with the Ordo Verde Peace Talks, they didnt concern us.

[King Adam Olivier]

A day in Planet Bob's history that will not be forgotten. ~Hath Said The King~

King Adam Olivier

[Archon]

First and most important, Invicta.

Second, I want to comment on this 'change' and 'acting humble' rubbish I've been reading in this thread. I'll use myself. Pre this war, concerning the 18 alliance that fought and defeated NPO, I was barely aware of half of them (GOD, The International, RnR to name a few), indifferent towards others (Athens for one), and actually liked a couple (VE and =LOST=). Now, thanks only to this war, and not just the smashing of our alliance and harsh reps but also the attitude from members of those alliances, and constant spewing forth of venom and bile aimed at us and our allies, treatment of allies like Echelon, not to mention levels of arrogance that puts what we supposedly display to shame, both during the war and after, I have fostered a healthy anger and hate towards all of them. I sincerely hope to see each and every one of them crushed over the next 12 to 24 months. Not necessarily at our hands either.

That attitude wasn't born out of arrogance, I used to be one of the mildest tempered forgiving people in the game, but that has changed big time, thanks only to the attitudes and actions of karma members. I don't know if any other NPO members have gone down the same road as I have, but if any of you expect me in sackcloth and ashes begging for forgiveness, forget it. It ain't gonna happen. I despise you all to much to even consider it (you as in alliances, not individuals).

Maybe when the arrogance and hate on your side fades, mine will too. Who knows. Won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, as the attitudes displayed from some of you in this thread, a thread simply reaffirming a close friendship between two allies that had their treaty cancelled by force by outsiders, has shown me no matter what happens, no matter what we do, no matter how hard we try, there will always be those that will never let go of their hatred. So give me one good reason why I should, and please don't mention being humble, it will just make me laugh again.

Congratulations. You just captured the emotion and feeling of each and every member in each and every alliance that beat you on the field of combat, except for the part where they were beaten down far worse and typically (in terms of proportionality oh god Azaghul's topic all over again) faced worse terms and reparations, let alone viceroys and the like. Your dear alliance fostered and bred the hate and derision you now face and took pleasure in it at that. This has been said in many different ways by many people who are far more prepared to speak than I. But then again, I'm speaking to feeling and emotion, which is of course rarely rooted in fact.

If you didn't want to be treated that way, your alliance shouldn't have treated everyone else that way. But you did, and this is the result. This feels just like 2006 and 2007, except that the NPO is once again on the receiving end, instead of giving it for years. And while I know (from experience) that it sucks a lot to be taking it, maybe if you all hadn't given it so much you wouldn't be in this position.

Someone will eventually man up, and there are leaders of course who do not take part in this. I, for once, really could care less about this announcement beyond the fact that I can respect Invicta for the move. I'm no stranger to political moves that seem "retarded" or otherwise ill conceived (charging into the noCB war comes to mind), but those moves were done out of friendship. This is what has driven Invicta, and I can respect that.

So I guess what it all comes down to is this: when you sit here and face down the venom of hundreds of rulers who loathe you for everything that you have done, instead of wasting your time calling them hypocrites, regardless of how justified that claim may be, perhaps you should reflect on your own damn past and think about what you did over the last few years to cause those comments to be flung at you. You aren't saints, and you never were. You openly "played the bad guys," and you brought this upon yourselves. To expect those who have finally triumphed over to you be the "better men" after enduring years of your abuse is rather naive. The war was a punitive one, and you paid for your actions in the fires of warfare. But that has not washed away the past few years, and to do that you would be wise to follow the example of many other alliances who have had to overcome similar positions.

And lastly, if you're unaware that MK members are free to speak their minds then you should get out from whatever rock you live underneath. If you want an "official position" you can feel free to contact me and I'll be more than happy to let you know. While I do not personally approve of their word choice or approach to this thread, I would not stop them from saying it, for it is how they feel. You would do well to remember that, as a mediator, I tried my best with Crymson to stop this war. It was only once the NPO unleashed their armies that the whole dynamic changed, for I didn't take kindly to a PIAT partner of mine attacking an alliance MDoAPed to a C&G member. For that alone I waged this war, not any ill will I fostered. Given my interactions with NPO leadership and other notable NPO members, I think they would find that to be a true statement.

[Francesca]

It's one thing to stick by an ally when it's inconvenient. Like when an ally is inconveniently targeted by a far larger alliance/group of alliances and is being attacked. It's another thing when your ally conveniently targets a far smaller alliance and attacks them, during peace negotiations, no less. It's not a matter of convenience at that point, it's a matter of conscience. Granted, if you knew about what your ally was doing and you had absolutely no problem with it, then you damn well better stick by their side because you're just as much to blame. If you didn't know what exactly was going on/weren't informed by your ally and you merely found out ex post facto, then are they really your friend?

To be honest, I don't quite get your point, but I will endeavour to answer you:

There were astronomical levels of tension between Karma and the Hegemony in the period leading up to the Declaration of War on Ordo Verde. The war could have broken out half a dozen different ways, with DE for example, it just needed a spark. The Hegemony lost the war. The casus belli wasn't therefore too relevant in assessing whether or not it was honourable to stand by NPO in the conflict, it was just a way to open the war.

[Brotherington]

Thank you.

Dont know.

Not caring is when you is MK thread and totally ignore it,...you dont even read it, dont even give it a second look, miles aways from posting in it.

Thats not caring.

Going in packs in it and posting how you "don't care", and trying to post witty little one liners which only sound funny in your head, is caring a bit ya know. Whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, shame for some childish remarks, but overall a positive thread for a positive message. True friendship is a precious thing and not that common. We celebrate ours knowing that.

Im going to reply to this because it took me so long to make any sense of it.

I didn't read this thread untill someone linked me to it, I thought NPO and invicta were terrible alliances which ought to disband before I read this thread and my mind hasn't changed. I don't see any "packs" of MK posts in the first 10 pages, the fact you consider the smattering of comments indicative of major interest makes me lament NPOs internal activity.

[Bob Janova]

Invicta... The utter stupidity of associating, at this time, in this manner, with the alliance you've chosen to do so with... it just stuns me. [etc]

Invicta have been associated with NPO for a long time (as it says in the OP). While posting this thread now was possibly a mistake (the reaction was fairly predictable), they haven't associated 'at this time', they've just not dropped NPO – which whatever your opinion on NPO deserves some credit.

[He Who Has No Name]

they've just not dropped NPO – which whatever your opinion on NPO deserves some credit.

...we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

Lessons on intelligence and diplomacy from none other than FAN

And which one of us is under surrender terms right now, partner? Would be wise to check your own shoes right now before you run your mouth about what somebody else stepped in once upon a time.

[shavar]

Once again INVICTA steps up and shows what a true friend is all about . I am proud to say I am a FRIEND of INVICTA and they have done nothing to make me change my mind on that.

o/INVICTA

We just need to hand out a little Purple love .. You cant go wronge with that.

[Locke]

If you actually expect anybody to believe that ----, I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

Invicta... The utter stupidity of associating, at this time, in this manner, with the alliance you've chosen to do so with... it just stuns me. The weapons grade stupid is spreading. This would have been a "brilliant move" three months ago. Have you been ASLEEP for the last few months or something? Do you guys take long strolls in marked quicksand areas, too?

Invicta, what you've just announced is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, asinine posturing were you even close to anything that could be considered a smart idea. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

3 months ago this wouldn't have mattered. We're not trying to make any "brilliant move," that really doesn't matter to us.

[scythegfx]

Im going to reply to this because it took me so long to make any sense of it.

I didn't read this thread untill someone linked me to it, I thought NPO and invicta were terrible alliances which ought to disband before I read this thread and my mind hasn't changed. I don't see any "packs" of MK posts in the first 10 pages, the fact you consider the smattering of comments indicative of major interest makes me lament NPOs internal activity.

Any reason why we're such a terrible alliance? I'm quite interested to see whst we've done that was so horrible?

[der_ko]

Any reason why we're such a terrible alliance? I'm quite interested to see whst we've done that was so horrible?

It could be because after 3 years just about everyone except you has figured out how the NPO plays this game. The NPO doesn't have any friends, they don't care about you or anyone else. They never did and they never will. If you serve a purpose they'll string you along, but the second you no longer matter, or it's inconvenient to keep you around, they will throw you out with the rest of the garbage.

Before the NPO was defeated in the war there was a point in attaching yourself to the them. You'd be safe as long as you were an obedient little dog and you could even bark at the bad people NPO told you about, but today the NPO is a pariah to most of CN. It's truly mind boggling how you can be so naive and stupid.

Edited August 8, 2009 by der_ko

[Ivellios]

pshh just people spreading hate, dont worry about it.

Hail Invicta and NPO 0/

[Sequoia Throne]

pshh just people spreading hate, dont worry about it.

Hail Invicta and NPO 0/

Ah we're used to it, in fact, we thrive on it.

[HeinousOne]

Ah we're used to it, in fact, we thrive on it.

Up until this war anyways.

[scythegfx]

It could be because after 3 years just about everyone except you has figured out how the NPO plays this game. The NPO doesn't have any friends, they don't care about you or anyone else. They never did and they never will. If you serve a purpose they'll string you along, but the second you no longer matter, or it's inconvenient to keep you around, they will throw you out with the rest of the garbage.

Before the NPO was defeated in the war there was a point in attaching yourself to the them. You'd be safe as long as you were an obedient little dog and you could even bark at the bad people NPO told you about, but today the NPO is a pariah to most of CN. It's truly mind boggling how you can be so naive and stupid.

I'm sorry that you think we're a horrible alliance because we believe in forgiveness and sticking by the people who treat us well.

If NPO were to ever screw us over, then I'll concede that you were right, but I honestly do believe that the NPO will not do so, and will stick by us as we stuck by them.

If friendship is stupid, Well then I guess you can call me Rain Man.

[Ogaden]

Invicta is a great alliance and stand up guys, and were fearless warriors in the war.

[Doitzel]

Perhaps that is why Invicta felt the need to do this. Due to the conditions of all that happened they wanted it clear they were still friends even though they did not stick it out like TPF and were able to get out of the war with little after cost. That might appear to some that they were looking to distance themselves from NPO.

So while it might be more convincing to see TPF make this, that would be because they don't have to make a thread like this due to their situation. So to me that seems a strange issue for people to have. What is the point in stating the obvious?

Because words only retain power when they enunciate truth. It's difficult to determine whether those expressed here do, given the extremely limited manner in which this supposed friendship was demonstrated substantively.