At Long Last, the End of the Karma War

[King DrunkWino]

You'd be surprised.

Remind me to punch you later.

[TitoXV]

[OOC}This reminds me of WWII, if NPO is like the German, TPF is like the Japan... they are the last one who surrendered...[/OOC}

o/ one of the bravest Alliances... TPF

Edited August 5, 2009 by TitoXV

[Tron Paul]

Well, they stayed through the duration of the war while "some" of NPO's other allies bailed out or stepped back and watched the war from the sidelines. "Some" honored their treaties when they knew this wasn't a winning war.

I feel the true test of loyalty and honor comes when you have to make the decision to back up your friends in a losing war. In a losing war you soon find out who your true friends are. Some people are only your friends when it is convenient for them.

Look, here's the thing. They weren't entering the war honorably in defense of their allies. They only entered the war because of constant whining by Mushroom Kingdoom, the Karma Forces, and the New Pacific Order. The entire hegemony caused great celebrations across the world by announcing that they would not defend New Pacific Order.

Really, by finally entering the war and renouncing their previous stance TPF was just trying to save their image.

[Canik]

My best wishes for TPF. You have been a good ally to FEAR, and fought honorably.

o/ TPF

[Lucas Perry]

Congrats, TPF.

Here's to you growing and continuing to build friendships with those closest to you.

[Ogaden]

Look, here's the thing. They weren't entering the war honorably in defense of their allies. They only entered the war because of constant whining by Mushroom Kingdoom, the Karma Forces, and the New Pacific Order. The entire hegemony caused great celebrations across the world by announcing that they would not defend New Pacific Order.

Really, by finally entering the war and renouncing their previous stance TPF was just trying to save their image.

bigwoody ran around to everyone in Q and 1V and essentially said we were going to bail on the war, and leave everyone out to dry.

Coming from a member of One Vision, this was a serious allegation, which is why most of our allies didn't enter the war on that fateful day.

It did teach us a valuable lesson about the intentions of our adversaries and the lengths they would go to in order to destroy us, and took full advantage of the chaos and lack of communication on our side. Suffice it to say, this wasn't true, though it DID earn bigwoody a white peace. The 'Coalition of Cowards' is an incorrect label, the 'Coalition of the Deceived' would be a better one. Once they learned the truth all our allies came out to help us, but the damage was done, and the 'hegemony' as you love to refer to our allies, was dead.

Protip: don't ally with bigwoody

Edited August 5, 2009 by James Dahl

[Un4Gvn1]

I'm glad to see this finally. Congrats to peace guys. It has been a great honor fighting beside you.

Yes, it was an honor to have y'all standing with us.

Oh how the times have changed, Guffey! I am glad to call you friend.

[Archon]

Look, here's the thing. They weren't entering the war honorably in defense of their allies. They only entered the war because of constant whining by Mushroom Kingdoom, the Karma Forces, and the New Pacific Order. The entire hegemony caused great celebrations across the world by announcing that they would not defend New Pacific Order.

Really, by finally entering the war and renouncing their previous stance TPF was just trying to save their image.

Is there a reason you singled out MK there?

[Sal Paradise]

bigwoody ran around to everyone in Q and 1V and essentially said we were going to bail on the war, and leave everyone out to dry.

Coming from a member of One Vision, this was a serious allegation, which is why most of our allies didn't enter the war on that fateful day.

It did teach us a valuable lesson about the intentions of our adversaries and the lengths they would go to in order to destroy us, and took full advantage of the chaos and lack of communication on our side. Suffice it to say, this wasn't true, though it DID earn bigwoody a white peace. The 'Coalition of Cowards' is an incorrect label, the 'Coalition of the Deceived' would be a better one. Once they learned the truth all our allies came out to help us, but the damage was done, and the 'hegemony' as you love to refer to our allies, was dead.

Pretty damn well hilarious if you ask me.

[Tygaland]

bigwoody ran around to everyone in Q and 1V and essentially said we were going to bail on the war, and leave everyone out to dry.

Coming from a member of One Vision, this was a serious allegation, which is why most of our allies didn't enter the war on that fateful day.

It did teach us a valuable lesson about the intentions of our adversaries and the lengths they would go to in order to destroy us, and took full advantage of the chaos and lack of communication on our side.

Suffice it to say, this wasn't true, though it DID earn bigwoody a white peace.

Protip: don't ally with bigwoody

For the record, TORN did have to pay reps for damages done to OV in their attacks. I'm not condoning what they did or didn't do, just clearing up the erroneous assertion that they got "white peace".

Another aspect of this is how stupid Continuum/1V alliances were when they posted their cancellation of treaties with the NPO and fled the war without even speaking to the NPO to verify what happened.

The panic and knee-jerk reaction to cancel was purely the doing of those alliances that cancelled and nothing to do with Karma at all. If your chain of events is true (there are a few differing versions floating around) then alliances that cancelled on the NPO without even contacting the NPO for their version of events did themselves a great disservice and deserved the ridicule they received for those actions. If they were true allies of the NPO they'd have spoken to the NPO before running for the hills.

[Essenia]

Is there a reason you singled out MK there?

MK was easily the most vocal Karma alliace, both when you consider the activity level of general memberbase and the fact that you had the role of 'Voice of Karma'.

[Strykewolf]

Good to see this, now folks can focus on rebuilding.

And with this, the engagements between Blackhorse and Avalon have ceased. ((Been gone a couple days so yeah, I'm late))

They busted a few nuke-cherries with us. And the 13 received, from Avalon, were interesting. And they were a valuable lesson for several of our smallers on why to have a warchest and why to listen to the ones above them. It hurt...a lot...but we bounced

Well met on the battlefield. Let's not do this again.

o7 Avalon

o7 TPF (though we didn't fight you directly)

[Deadshot]

MAIM KILL BURN

And for all of you who people cleaning your rifles in preparation for PC, I chuckle. As someone who has been involved with Pink Sphere for ages and stood in the halls of PWN as an alliance leader, I must clarify one thing: You may not like PC's style, you may not like their views, and you may not like what they've done, but they don't care. Loved by their allies and hated by the rest of CN, they are [OOC] "playing the game" [/OOC]. No comments about "honor" and the NAP and white peace are going to stop them.

No but a coalition of people sick of their !@#$ will. Remember the Karma War? NPO and company were just OOC: "playing the game too" /OOC. Kudos to them and yourself for not caring if people hate you. I for one have had people hate me before ever speaking to me as well and I couldn't care less either. That's how it is for my opinion of PC. I don't hate them persay, but from what I have seen of them, I don't like them either.

As for internet Superheroes, I have seen enough to think your all a bunch of blowhards, children who go around causing trouble for the lulz and cry when they finally get caught.

'Coalition of the Deceived'

I am glad that you see that James.

o/ TPF on achieving a well earned peace. May you pay reps off quickly and rise from the ashes to shine brighter than before.

[Guffey]

Yes, it was an honor to have y'all standing with us.

Oh how the times have changed, Guffey! I am glad to call you friend.

indeed they have. I am glad i can call u a friend as well.

o/ TPF

o/ Avalon

[ChairmanHal]

bigwoody ran around to everyone in Q and 1V and essentially said we were going to bail on the war, and leave everyone out to dry.

Coming from a member of One Vision, this was a serious allegation, which is why most of our allies didn't enter the war on that fateful day.

It did teach us a valuable lesson about the intentions of our adversaries and the lengths they would go to in order to destroy us, and took full advantage of the chaos and lack of communication on our side. Suffice it to say, this wasn't true, though it DID earn bigwoody a white peace. The 'Coalition of Cowards' is an incorrect label, the 'Coalition of the Deceived' would be a better one. Once they learned the truth all our allies came out to help us, but the damage was done, and the 'hegemony' as you love to refer to our allies, was dead.

Protip: don't ally with bigwoody

This follows with the sequence of events related to me by someone we'll call a "reliable source"...

OOC: ...who may be out of the country at the moment.

I have not heard bigwoody's side of this however, so I am not rushing to judgment.

It should also be pointed out that there was never any serious consideration given that I'm aware of terminating the Continuum or voting to throw NPO out of Q (though that would have been ironic...), so Valhalla and the other members at the time were obligated by treaty to enter the war regardless of whatever other treaties were canceled.

[Tygaland]

This follows with the sequence of events related to me by someone we'll call a "reliable source"...

OOC: ...who may be out of the country at the moment.

I have not heard bigwoody's side of this however, so I am not rushing to judgment.

It should also be pointed out that there was never any serious consideration given that I'm aware of terminating the Continuum or voting to throw NPO out of Q (though that would have been ironic...), so Valhalla and the other members at the time were obligated by treaty to enter the war regardless of whatever other treaties were canceled.

Assuming the NPO gave them 72 hours notice of the war declaration as per the Möbius Accords. Which, if they did, would mean the negotiations prior to war breaking out were in bad faith from the NPO's side.

[Delta1212]

Not to mention that mass cancellation was one of the biggest propaganda blunders in the history of the game. I mean, I know Continuum expected to lose by that point anyway, but I'd have at least made some semblance of an effort. You threw up the white flag before you even entered the fight and you did it in front of everyone that was expected to fight beside you. There are just so many reasons why that was a horrible idea and so few ways to justify it that aren't incredibly flimsy and ill-conceived.

[Turkey]

Look, here's the thing. They weren't entering the war honorably in defense of their allies. They only entered the war because of constant whining by Mushroom Kingdoom, the Karma Forces, and the New Pacific Order. The entire hegemony caused great celebrations across the world by announcing that they would not defend New Pacific Order.

Really, by finally entering the war and renouncing their previous stance TPF was just trying to save their image.

That's right, because TPF from day one has primarily been concerned with caring what others think of us... Because of course, everyone loved us, up until this singular moment in time? Because we've been the darlings of CN until right up to the start of this war, when we realized, "HEY, MK and PC might not like us, time to lose a hundred members and millions of NS!"

You realize how stupid you sound right? Is that something you have to work hard at, or does it just come naturally?

[Burning Glory]

I want to say thanks to all of our allies and our friends who stood by us, as well as our supporters from the other side.

Its not easy to stand up for whats right, especially when there are so many that don't care.

thanks!

BG.

[Desperado]

The panic and knee-jerk reaction to cancel was purely the doing of those alliances that cancelled and nothing to do with Karma at all. If your chain of events is true (there are a few differing versions floating around) then alliances that cancelled on the NPO without even contacting the NPO for their version of events did themselves a great disservice and deserved the ridicule they received for those actions. If they were true allies of the NPO they'd have spoken to the NPO before running for the hills.

To clarify - its tough when you have MADP's with both and get two different stories and are expected to make a decision before the stories are even finished. There is never enough time to sort things out, especially when you have situations such as this. Once the full story came to fruition... well, I think the support and the cancellations show where everyone stood when they got the whole truth.

[Subotai]

Congrats to our friends and allies in TPF!

[Phoebe]

o/ TPF, you guys are awesome.

PC .... your time is coming.

[Tygaland]

To clarify - its tough when you have MADP's with both and get two different stories and are expected to make a decision before the stories are even finished. There is never enough time to sort things out, especially when you have situations such as this. Once the full story came to fruition... well, I think the support and the cancellations show where everyone stood when they got the whole truth.

May I ask what the rush was to make a decison before finding out what actually happened? Considering your actions at that time were to cancel and stay out of the conflict, it would not have been any different, with regards to assistance to the NPO, to have waited 24 hours to clarify what happened before making an informed decision.

I want to say thanks to all of our allies and our friends who stood by us, as well as our supporters from the other side.

Its not easy to stand up for whats right, especially when there are so many that don't care.

thanks!

BG.

You weren't standing up for what is right.

[Desperado]

May I ask what the rush was to make a decison before finding out what actually happened? Considering your actions at that time were to cancel and stay out of the conflict, it would not have been any different, with regards to assistance to the NPO, to have waited 24 hours to clarify what happened before making an informed decision.

The point is that TPF had two MADP partners running to them at once as well as pressure due to the spreading of said TORN drama. It should be pretty easy to understand and I am not sure there is much more to elaborate on.

[Tron Paul]

Is there a reason you singled out MK there?

Mushroom Kingdom propaganda had a field day after the hegemony abandoned NPO. I also recall you making several posts calling out the hegemony alliances.