Quick Announcement from Ordo Verde

[Daikos]

I think those 15 minutes are just about up, Ordo Verde.

Now if only the NSO's would hurry up and expire as well...

[Corinan]

Now if only the NSO's would hurry up and expire as well...

I'm sure there are people working on it somewhere. It's going to be the longest 15 minutes of their lives, I'm afraid.

[Thierra]

I think those 15 minutes are just about up, Ordo Verde.

I think the alleged "fall" of Pacifica, as well as the contents of this thread's OP both prove that being noticed in the Cyberverse isn't always a good thing.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity" doesn't really hold water on Bob.

[Jimmy2e]

No disrespect intended.

If you come out making what appeared to me to be a sarcastic comment about an alliance accepting reps you are probably best served to make sure your alliance if free of similar "sins" before doing so. Otherwise, people will point those "sins" out for you.

You can't pick and choose when you are to be considered a member of an alliance. Sure, you can post your own thoughts as an individual and those thoughts be considered your own and not reflective of your alliance's views on an issue but, you can't make a critical comment of another alliance and then complain when people drag up your own alliances deeds by claiming you are not speaking as a member of your alliance.

I tore apart your argument based on the alliance you are in because your alliance is more "guilty" of the "sin" you are accusing another alliance of committing. Glass houses and throwing stones. I'm not sure that is disrespectful at all.

Old grudges die hard, the MCXA you think of when you mention these "sins" died 6 months ago. What stands in its wake is a much better alliance. FYI

[Dr hairy Ballz]

I think those 15 minutes are just about up, Ordo Verde.

ORLY?

I have news for you sir.

[Systemfailure]

have you ever looked at the 1st page of a thread then skipped to the latest reply only to find that the discussion is now residing on the moon?

o/ OV

enjoy the cash

[Francesca]

have you ever looked at the 1st page of a thread then skipped to the latest reply only to find that the discussion is now residing on the moon?

o/ OV

enjoy the cash

Precisely, my friend, why I ceased to speak in it.

And yes, to get back on topic, congratulations on your money Ordo Verde, even if I don't really agree with all of this.

[Tygaland]

Old grudges die hard, the MCXA you think of when you mention these "sins" died 6 months ago. What stands in its wake is a much better alliance. FYI

That may well be the case, but it does not erase MCXA's history.

[Haflinger]

That may well be the case, but it does not erase MCXA's history.

So is Legion now the same Legion that fought against \m/ then?

MCXA lost more of its alliance in the TSO crisis than Legion did in Purplegate.

[Tygaland]

So is Legion now the same Legion that fought against \m/ then?

MCXA lost more of its alliance in the TSO crisis than Legion did in Purplegate.

It is the same alliance, yes. An alliance's history is not erased with a change of government and you are moron for trying to say that it is.

[Marcus Guildenstern]

It is the same alliance, yes. An alliance's history is not erased with a change of government and you are moron for trying to say that it is.

I'm interested in this question of identity, and to what extent it follows the individual or the group. Perhaps it's a discussion for another time though.

Still, one question (okay, two questions), if I may: if the history of MCXA cannot be erased, can it be more fully ameliorated in your eyes; and what would it take to do this?

Edited August 6, 2009 by Marcus Guildenstern

[Tygaland]

I'm interested in this question of identity, and to what extent it follows the individual or the group. Perhaps it's a discussion for another thread though.

Still, one question (okay, two questions), if I may: if the history of MCXA cannot be erased, can it be more fully ameliorated in your eyes; and what would it take to do this?

Why would it need to be? The simple issue in this discussion was an MCXA member making sarcastic remarks about OV accepting reps from a war they did not start and happened to win when MCXA has accepted reps in wars their side started from alliances heavily beaten down.

That was all I was raising MCXA's history for. Whether I find MCXA taking reps in the past satisfactory or acceptable is not relevant. What is relevant is that it is a bit rich to make comments about an alliance accepting reps from a war when your alliance has done the same in the past. And, yes, Jimmy2e was in MCXA at the time that reps were taken from Polar at the end of the noCB war.

No one forced Jimmy2e to say what he did and I'd have thought an alliance with a history of clawing reps from downtrodden foes in wars their side started would probably be best served steering clear of making sarcastic comments about other alliances accepting reps from downtrodden foes.

[Haflinger]

It is the same alliance, yes. An alliance's history is not erased with a change of government and you are moron for trying to say that it is.

The history isn't erased. However, many people have stated that Legion died during Purplegate, and referred to the alliance that exists now as a fraud of some kind.

If that's the case, then it surely applies to MCXA, who lost even more to TSO than Legion did to NPO, TPF and Valhalla.

[Tygaland]

The history isn't erased. However, many people have stated that Legion died during Purplegate, and referred to the alliance that exists now as a fraud of some kind.

If that's the case, then it surely applies to MCXA, who lost even more to TSO than Legion did to NPO, TPF and Valhalla.

MCXA's founding date is listed as 22 April 2007 and they appear to be in existance from that point until now.

The Legion lists its founding date as 31 January 2006 so I'm certain they consider themselves to be the same alliance. What anybody else thinks about whether the current alliance is a fraud or not is irrelevant.

You know you are getting desperate when you are taking personal judgements and using them as arbitrary measurements.

[Haflinger]

MCXA's founding date is listed as 22 April 2007 and they appear to be in existance from that point until now.

The Legion lists its founding date as 31 January 2006 so I'm certain they consider themselves to be the same alliance. What anybody else thinks about whether the current alliance is a fraud or not is irrelevant.

You know you are getting desperate when you are taking personal judgements and using them as arbitrary measurements.

So if STA had accepted the Valhalla terms demanding the removal of various people from government, you'd be the same alliance now?

C'mon Tyga. Alliances can change, both for better and for worse; insisting that just because they have the same name they are exactly the same isn't logical.

[Tygaland]

So if STA had accepted the Valhalla terms demanding the removal of various people from government, you'd be the same alliance now?

C'mon Tyga. Alliances can change, both for better and for worse; insisting that just because they have the same name they are exactly the same isn't logical.

Yes, STA would still be the STA and the removal of government would be just another chapter in STA's history. I'm not saying alliance do not change. However, that does not mean they get to point the finger at other alliances for doing the exact same thing their alliance did in the not too distant past and not have that double standard pointed out to them.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Tygaland

[Gn0xious Jr]

C'mon Tyga. Alliances can change, both for better and for worse; insisting that just because they have the same name they are exactly the same isn't logical.

I don't think anyone, anywhere said that alliances can't change.

Instead, alliances can't change their history.

They can take actions to better themselves, and right their previous wrongs, however, it will NEVER erase their previous wrongs. Hopefully the good will eventually outweigh the bad, but the history is tied to the alliance.

[Scorponok]

As always Tyga is right, but you can all make great strides to better your image and future History will always be there, history cannot ever be erased, unless a new world is created.

[Gopherbashi]

Yes, STA would still be the STA and the removal of government would be just another chapter in STA's history. I'm not saying alliance do not change. However, that does not mean they get to point the finger at other alliances for doing the exact same thing their alliance did in the not too distant past and not have that double standard pointed out to them.

The not too distant past? Seriously? That war was an entire year ago. How long does it take before you would judge us worthy of speech? Three years? Five years? Ten years? Or have we been permanently barred from being able to criticize others due to the events of the past?

[Delta1212]

The not too distant past? Seriously? That war was an entire year ago. How long does it take before you would judge us worthy of speech? Three years? Five years? Ten years? Or have we been permanently barred from being able to criticize others due to the events of the past?

Time in Cybernations is measured by actions, not days. Active work can create a complete reversal in someone's image in a matter of months. A year of doing nothing new of particular note means the last action that comes to mind is still that from a year ago. If you want people to change how they view you, you need to make them change. Waiting for it to happen means it probably won't.

[leprecon]

Good lord, you're making NPO more than quadruble your total tech? And 1 billion? That's a bit ridiculous, why in the world did you post this? What good did you think would come of it?

In other news, applications to OV increased by 800%

[mythicknight]

Actually, 51. You have 76 of 127 foreign aid slots in use, alliance-wide, 48 of them with NPO in them. So far they've sent 2400 tech; at this rate, their tech reps to you guys will be paid in 21 cycles, or about 7 months.

I note you're also still receiving reparations from TORN.

Those were completed before the end of July.

[Dr hairy Ballz]

ORDO VERDE FORUMS

You to can be as cool as we are, if you're hardcore enough!

[Tygaland]

The not too distant past? Seriously? That war was an entire year ago. How long does it take before you would judge us worthy of speech? Three years? Five years? Ten years? Or have we been permanently barred from being able to criticize others due to the events of the past?

In my opinion, alliances with a history of certain actions should refrain from criticising other alliances for similar actions until the alliance seeking to criticise the other has a demonstrable history of changed behaviour. At the moment, your alliance has no such demonstrable history so the actions of your past, the noCB War, are what people will refer to when your members attempt to level such criticism.

It is not whether you are worthy of speech and your hysterical exaggeration really does you no justice. It is about refraining from criticising others for doing similar things your alliance has done in its most recent war victory. If your members decide to criticise or ridicule an alliance for something your alliance has done when it last had the opportunity to do so, then you can hardly complain when someone points out that double standard.

[Yggdrazil]

Tyga's Law: The frequency of an alliance member's whining is inversely proportional to the contribution they make to their alliance.

From this essential truth, we can deduce that not every one of your decisions has 100% support , that certain of your actions as a leader leaves some in your alliance less than pleased.The Law also states that it is those who contribute least, which is the majority of nations on planet Bob.There are not enough government positions to give each nation in a mid-sized alliance a position.Therefore, I will conclude that there is dissent in every alliance to actions taken by leaders and due to inertia most stay for those freindships developed while members.If these members post here in the OWF and it is in variance to alliance actions committed while they were members, it isn't a double standard.

I abhor tech raiding,yet the alliance I am in permits it under controlled conditions.If I speak out against this practice yet my alliance allows it; this is not a double standard.Unless you are saying that a minority opinion within an alliance cannot be expressed.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Yggdrazil