Markus Wilding Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Junio, to me that attitude screams "I don't like you, so I'm just gonna ignore you". I remember when you were still President Aliyev, and you RPed Azerbaijan beautifully. It's not your nation that's getting people riled up - it's that you suddenly activated Botha mode for your own gain. Now, when you say that you don't like the community making the rules - that's exactly what the moderators did when they appointed GMs. GMs listened to what we had to say, then made rulings about it. Now, if Vince were a GM, he'd be having this poll to see if we really needed to abolish Botha Mode, just like merging nations before. When the merging nations fiasco started, it was clear why it needed to be removed - people abused it. Now we have the same thing with Botha mode. If you want to be truly isolationist, then don't go Botha and juist say IC, "We are isolationist." It's not that hard. Also, if you truly want to RP a country, then use the Game-Related RP. That's what it's for. Fantasy RP is usually CNRP. See that? CNRP. As in CyberNationsRolePlay. No matter what happens to our IG nations, we can do basically anything to our CNRP nations. Look at me, I've rerolled 3 times, with my 4th coming up and my IG nation is STILL the USB. I don't want to lose 500+ days of working hard to destroy it again when I get bored of the country. My point is that if you want to be in CNRP, generally you should accept most CNRP rules. If not, then go to Game-related RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedran Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Can Botha define Botha mode?If the player in question only recently "turned on" this mode, then I guess it should be cut out for being a loophole. If that is not the case, then I suppose anyone should be free to do it so long as the community agrees to it. I don't think anybody should be able to "turn on" Botha mode. It's a way of playing that Botha's been doing for years that amounts to IG=RP, not someone saying "ok you can't attack me now" whenever they feel like it. If people don't like when someone does this, then just ignore their RP. Personally, I like RPing with Botha. It's a little confusing sometimes because I use multipliers and he doesn't (and he RPs ingame wars), but overall it's good, and one reason is because when I remove the possibility of invading someone from my mind, I actually have to think how to put pressure on the country without using the threat of war or economic sanctions. And it's not like EVERYTHING has to happen in-game. He invaded Madagascar once to put down a rebellion and I've sent spies to his country without doing any of these things ingame. It becomes more fun when you remove the competitive aspect of roleplay and can actually focus on this little thing called "story." So yeah, I voted yes. If somebody wants to do it, do it throughout the entire lifetime of your nation. Don't use it as peace mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 My point is that if you want to be in CNRP, generally you should accept most CNRP rules. If not, then go to Game-related RP. So then Botha should move to Game-Related RP too then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Do note that I said generally. As we've discussed, Botha will be the exception to this rule because he's ised Bothat mode responsibly, not turning it off and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I vote yes to removing Botha mode but allowing Botha to do it, serious this is getting out of hand as some only use the rule to their advantage Edited July 30, 2009 by Centurius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agostinho Neto Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I don't turn it "on and off", i decided to be isolationist when that whole OOC discussion came up in the last days of the "greater nordlandic reich", thats when i said "i'm here to roleplay a nation not to watch Beautiful" (a boring tv show) and i started to roleplay my nation. It seems like i have to roleplay what other people want me to, i remember when roleplaying a communist country meant CERTAIN invasion and destruction. Now it's the opposite, what the hell? There is no exception to the rule, we all have the same right and i have the right to roleplay my nation in the way i like. My decision stands, i will not destroy my whole nation because you don't like it, simple as it is. There ar TWO people who consider themself isolationist and strictly roleplay IG stats.. me and Botha, how can that be "OUT OF HAND", i do not invade countries like i eat pizzas. Edited July 30, 2009 by Junio Borghese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I don't turn it "on and off", i decided to be isolationist when that whole OOC discussion came up in the last days of the "greater nordlandic reich", thats when i said "i'm here to roleplay a nation not to watch Beautiful" (a boring tv show) and i started to roleplay my nation. It seems like i have to roleplay what other people want me to, i remember when roleplaying a communist country meant CERTAIN invasion and destruction. Now it's the opposite, what the hell? There is no exception to the rule, we all have the same right and i have the right to roleplay my nation in the way i like. My decision stands, i will not destroy my whole nation because you don't like it, simple as it is. There ar TWO people who consider themself isolationist and strictly roleplay IG stats.. me and Botha, how can that be "OUT OF HAND", i do not invade countries like i eat pizzas. You have the right to rp the way you want, but once you join CNRP you join a community, which as has been stated by mods has the power to rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agostinho Neto Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You have the right to rp the way you want, but once you join CNRP you join a community, which as has been stated by mods has the power to rule. The rules must be fair, and there must be no exception, you cannot make the rules to gain advantages and then remove them whenever you want just because your enemy is also gaining something from them. If i didn't roleplay that riot - you wouldn't do this, thats why i think there is a HUGE conflict of interest in making these rules, and thats why i left the military RP and moved in economy and politics, because i do not interfere in other nations' roleplay (and i tought that was enough to be left alone, apparently not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Borghese, there wouldn't be an exception. Botha has always RPd as he has and we as a community have always tolerated it. He figured out how to make "Botha mode" work - and he has always done so with almost no problems. When a problem does arise, Botha has been able to work it out in his own system. If you're not going to RP with the rest of us, then move. If you are, then you're going to have to realize that CNRP is not just general roleplaying: it's a certain group of people in the same universe, the same timeline. Just like how new players have to adjust to the fact that there are no alliances like NPO or MHA, you'll have to adjust that it's up to both groups of people, including you, to come up with some sort of compromise with how you play. Getting rid of "Botha mode" isn't the problem, it's defining it. Botha has always done it reasonably and has always tried his best to make things work. If you aren't willing to put forward more effort and if we as a community aren't willing to compromise, then we have problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I have been and always will be against Botha mode. I have nothing against Botha himself but the way you play annoys me. That's probably because I use RP as the means to describe, reflect, and act out what is going on in my nation IG. Because without CN, there is no CNRP. Which came first? For me RPing is fleshing out what happens on a daily basis with my IG nation. I then try to integrate that in with everyone else as much as possible - if it works, then fine. If not, oh well. But for me, when I have a trade cancellation or some in-game event, I want to make it mean more than some changing pixils. I think the whole RP in CN thing got started out of everyone's frustration with their in-game nations becoming stagnant or wishing to change nation names/identity, etc. as well as the inability to fight wars due to IG alliance mechanics. That's why I think so many people are loathe to play reflecting their in-game nations. As well many people want their RP nations to reflect RL nations - where in fact CN doesn't always reflect RL situations, which I accept, because Planet Bob is not the Earth and things happen differently. At least that has been my observation in the past year and a half since RPing here has really taken off. Before the spring of 2008, very very few people RPed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancellor Bismarck Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think this should've been a discussion thread, then a poll would've been made afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agostinho Neto Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) At least that has been my observation in the past year and a half since RPing here has really taken off. Before the spring of 2008, very very few people RPed at all. When i joined, Asia and Africa were almost completely white, same for america and south america. However i will keep roleplaying my IG stats since it isn't against the rules, you (non IG stats rp guys) can RP your fantasy stuff but cannot force it on me without valid reasons.. Edited July 30, 2009 by Junio Borghese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 At least that has been my observation in the past year and a half since RPing here has really taken off. Before the spring of 2008, very very few people RPed at all. Totally, i can remember in 2006-7 the RP was threadbare, alot of RP was actually going on in alliance forums (at least in my experience). Its better here on the BB's however, lots more people to interact with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) When i joined, Asia and Africa were almost completely white, same for america and south america. Yup. And that's a very good point to expand on... I definitely think I have had it easier to play IG-stats (and get acceptance of that) because of my location. Africa has always been the least desirable RP location and we probably have the most frequent instances of vacant land. Except perhaps for Large Leader, I have never had anyone come along and contest my land claim in the two and a half years I've been RPing. It's been over two years since there was a territory overlap in Southern Africa (and I say overlap, and not conflicting claims, because myself, Boer Staat, and Nelson Mandela all worked around the fact that we all had Pretoria under our control). Heck, I can't even give some of my land away for longer than a month or so before it becomes vacant. Such is Africa in CNRP. BUT if I were located in European territory, which has been contested to insane levels, then yeah I think it would have been much more difficult to remain aloof from the goings-on around me. EDIT: For forgot about Cherokee Namibia a year and a half ago, where we worked out overlapping claims (I concede territory to him) Edited July 30, 2009 by Botha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Heh, I remember when Justinian and I shared Moscow, made for some funny RP. Russany, good times, good times. Fighting a war with armored cars and 200mm WWI-tech howitzers. Edited July 30, 2009 by BaronUberstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well, it's getting that time again where people (Junio Borghese namely) are misusing and taking advantage of Botha Mode. In all honesty, I see no point to Botha mode. Here's why...You're not RPing with the community the way the community has agreed to. You're just saying to everyone that you don't want to be invaded, and don't want to RP with anyone else in the community unless you say so. National RPs need to go in the National RP forum, where IG stats are more strictly used. The CNRP community has always been a Fantasy RP, where IG stats are not used so strictly. So, I petition you, CNRP community, should we stop the Botha Mode while it is getting out of hand now? How has junio abused it? He is RPing internal unrest and problems, and has asserted his status as botha mode to prevent people from intervening in his RP. I think thats perfectly acceptable and EXACTLY what botha mode is supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) How has junio abused it? He is RPing internal unrest and problems, and has asserted his status as botha mode to prevent people from intervening in his RP. I think thats perfectly acceptable and EXACTLY what botha mode is supposed to do. He's RPing a boost in his economy when he's blockaded in RP, which is the exact opposite of what's supposed to happen. Edited July 30, 2009 by Arkantos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 When i joined, Asia and Africa were almost completely white, same for america and south america. However i will keep roleplaying my IG stats since it isn't against the rules, you (non IG stats rp guys) can RP your fantasy stuff but cannot force it on me without valid reasons.. If you want to interact with the rest of those in CNRP, yes, we can. They are blockading you for valid IC reasons. if you don't like it, there is ALWAYS the Game-Related RP forum. That's what it is for. How has junio abused it? He is RPing internal unrest and problems, and has asserted his status as botha mode to prevent people from intervening in his RP. I think thats perfectly acceptable and EXACTLY what botha mode is supposed to do. He's RPing a boost in his economy when he's blockaded in RP, which is the exact opposite of what's supposed to happen. Exactly. Even if certain essentials are let through, he's still going to be hit at least a little RP-wise in his economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agostinho Neto Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 He's RPing a boost in his economy when he's blockaded in RP, which is the exact opposite of what's supposed to happen. But i roleplay by my stats, not by your fleet rp movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) He's RPing a boost in his economy when he's blockaded in RP, which is the exact opposite of what's supposed to happen. Because he is RPing under botha mode which is you RP by your stats. Botha has been running around doing coups, military dictatorships, and violent responses to protest for awhile, but no one would ever question if he refused to recognize an RP'd blockade. Its not like it is an advantage, keep in mind he doesn't get any modifiers, and he doesn't get to RP to nearly the extend that we do with respect to technology. Moreover Junio has at least three nations, one of them who has a large extensively RP'd secondary economy (myself) exporting to him despite the blockade. Furthermore there is an anti-blockade protecting him. So arguably the blockade has no effect. Edited July 30, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Because he is RPing under botha mode which is you RP by your stats. Botha has been running around doing coups, military dictatorships, and violent responses to protest for awhile, but no one would ever question if he refused to recognize an RP'd blockade. Its not like it is an advantage, keep in mind he doesn't get any modifiers, and he doesn't get to RP to nearly the extend that we do with respect to technology. Moreover Junio has at least three nations, one of them who has a large extensively RP'd secondary economy (myself) exporting to him despite the blockade. Furthermore there is an anti-blockade protecting him. So arguably the blockade has no effect. The problem is Botha knows where to draw the line at refusing to recognize the results of other nations' actions. Borghese doesn't seem to get it. If he's blockaded on one side and the land border is closed as well, he's not getting anything they don't let in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Because he is RPing under botha mode which is you RP by your stats. Botha has been running around doing coups, military dictatorships, and violent responses to protest for awhile, but no one would ever question if he refused to recognize an RP'd blockade. Its not like it is an advantage, keep in mind he doesn't get any modifiers, and he doesn't get to RP to nearly the extend that we do with respect to technology. Moreover Junio has at least three nations, one of them who has a large extensively RP'd secondary economy (myself) exporting to him despite the blockade. Furthermore there is an anti-blockade protecting him. So arguably the blockade has no effect. There was a long period the Bavarians did not have an 'anti-blockade' and in this period he did continue rp'ing economic growth. Your ships would have been sunk trying to cross it in that period without receiving permission from Croatian Naval Command. The effectiveness will still be pressent as a company in it's right mind would not enter a conflict zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 The problem is Botha knows where to draw the line at refusing to recognize the results of other nations' actions. Borghese doesn't seem to get it. If he's blockaded on one side and the land border is closed as well, he's not getting anything they don't let in. The thing is that it comes down to OOC feelings I believe. Botha is more well known and well liked and so no one would attempt to do anything. Not to mention the only reason this is happening at all is because what Borghese is doing is not what the "masters of Europe" want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Botha is more well known and well liked Aww shucks that brings tears to my eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 no one would ever question if he refused to recognize an RP'd blockade. Just for the record, I did permit an RP blockade against me around two years ago in the pre-navy days of CN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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