Angrator Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 If I get onto the New Sith Order's ZI list, can I still apply? What ZI list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The only thing "new" about it that you've done is plastered your intentions all over OWF, with regards to accepting ZI listed nations. You'll find some alliances are quite happy to attempt to get nations removed from ZI lists if the applicant states that they are ZI listed in their application; they just don't plaster the policy all over OWF. What's wrong with openly stating your intentions? Or to phrase it a different way: Why should the NSO or any alliance be afraid to let others know of their policies? Besides, I think its great that they are "plastering the OWF" with this information. It should be easy for a person wrongly put on a ZI list to find help. Having a million alliances that would be willing to help but who keep that fact a guarded secret is really no help at all now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickyman1984 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 This seems to be a very sound policy. Some people on ZI lists deserve it, others don't, giving them a chance and taking things case by case makes all the sense in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I find your lack of faith disturbing. I find your lack of orignal commentary disturbing. Seriously though, You may want to consider an internal policy as well as an external one. VE has also had its share of nations abusing our good will as well and staying for remarkably short time periods after availing themselves of our diplomatic processes to get them our of trouble. Also while its good to do your own checking we typically find that people getting ZI'd tend to have earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 This may or may not prove useful. Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I find your lack of orignal commentary disturbing.Seriously though, You may want to consider an internal policy as well as an external one. VE has also had its share of nations abusing our good will as well and staying for remarkably short time periods after availing themselves of our diplomatic processes to get them our of trouble. Also while its good to do your own checking we typically find that people getting ZI'd tend to have earned it. ZIed or ZI Listed? I'd wager that most being ZIed do deserve it, but not those being ZI listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfg4ng Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Makin' moves like we do. I was not privy to why the change happened before joining the Sith but I'm glad it has been restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I am glad to see that there are places a ruler can go for respite from ZI (besides smoke-filled back rooms); however, I hope that the Sith will exercise careful judgement during their case evaluations. About my thoughts on the matter. Good move NSO, just don't get rolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakyr Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 What's wrong with openly stating your intentions? Or to phrase it a different way: Why should the NSO or any alliance be afraid to let others know of their policies? Besides, I think its great that they are "plastering the OWF" with this information. It should be easy for a person wrongly put on a ZI list to find help. Having a million alliances that would be willing to help but who keep that fact a guarded secret is really no help at all now is it? I was more aiming to point out that the concept is nothing new, they've just publicised it more openly than others have. Nothing wrong with it though As to why should the NSO or any other alliance be afraid to let others know of their policies, they shouldn't be. Will they be afraid though, quite likely and for good reason. Openly accepting the ZI listed is all well and good, when you have the NS and the allied NS to back it up. Some of us don't and given past history with alliances wars being started for little or no valid reasons, it seems better to stay under the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The only amusing thing is that some very experienced people didn't realise that their alliance would be used as a ZI laundry by the type of people who generally get ZI'd (shocking that they are not all political martyrs, isn't it?) and take earlier steps to prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) o/ NSO o/ Ivan Edited July 17, 2009 by Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) some others have been met with ignorance Oh yeh? Well screw you too. This move seems to me like an opportunist grab at NPO and TPF nations still at war. On an OOC note, you really really remind me of Tom Zarek from BSG. PS. Prior to the first NSO declaration of war, how many limited conflicts or white peace end of terms had you observed in the Cyberverse over the last two years? If you actually use your immoral and unjust war as a means to claim that you had anything to do with the white peace surrenders that were offered to the large majority of Hegemony alliances in the recent war and/or you are trying to paint yourself as some kind of a pioneer in regards to white peace, then I must say - you are even more smug and delusional that I give you credit for. Edited July 17, 2009 by Starcraftmazter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 When reviewing each nation on a case by case basis one must take into account the calibre of nation seeking membership, along with the realpolitik of the act itself. If acceptance of a nation causes all the nations of NSO to be placed at risk from one party or another such consequences must be accounted for and measured against the nation itself.I do not personally consider Kaos to be a strong enough or a high enough calibre nation to risk the security of the alliance as a whole. I would have to review the issue once it came up and make the determination after reviewing his current ZI status, if such exists. This demonstrates why Lord Ivan is one of the best leaders in CN. A clear risk vs. benefits, pragmatic approach not laughingly masked in cheap guises as lesser leaders so often do. o/ the Sith Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Very nice, really honourable NSO. Hopefully this will turn out for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Never realized you stopped accepting ZI targets in the first place. Glad it's back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Elecian Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Interesting. When I was first reading Ivan Moldavi's announcement at first it sounded like he was disbanding the NSO which made me a little scared and surprised but then when I kept on reading down, I realized he was just saying that the NSO was reinstating its original policy of accepting people that are on ZI lists. I never knew that such a policy existed in the first place, I only thought they condoned the use of EZI and didn't use it themselves. That is a move that I find very honorable and one I support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) As to why should the NSO or any other alliance be afraid to let others know of their policies, they shouldn't be. Will they be afraid though, quite likely and for good reason. We fear nothing. If anyone has a problem with our policy then they can come to us about it. Oh yeh? Well screw you too.This move seems to me like an opportunist grab at NPO and TPF nations still at war. On an OOC note, you really really remind me of Tom Zarek from BSG. PS. If you actually use your immoral and unjust war as a means to claim that you had anything to do with the white peace surrenders that were offered to the large majority of Hegemony alliances in the recent war and/or you are trying to paint yourself as some kind of a pioneer in regards to white peace, then I must say - you are even more smug and delusional that I give you credit for. So very bitter. Yes, I would venture to say that the white peace we gave the Central Defense Corps (now defunct) set the example that others emulated afterward in the Karma War. Oh and do spare me the morality rant. They spied and they subsequently died for their actions. Not our fault. I only thought they condoned the use of EZI and didn't use it themselves. That is a move that I find very honorable and one I support. We've never condoned the use of EZI. ........and why aren't you in NSO? Edited July 17, 2009 by Corinan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 So very bitter.Yes, I would venture to say that the white peace we gave the Central Defense Corps (now defunct) set the example that others emulated afterward in the Karma War. Oh and do spare me the morality rant. They spied and they subsequently died for their actions. Not our fault. I'm not bitter, that is quite seriously and literally the impression I get. I am one of countless leader-types that elected to give white peace in the Karma war, and you had nothing to do with it. Other leader-types I know and talk to who did the same did so equally because many many many people have believed for a very long time that this is the appropriate way to do things, and none of this has anything to do with you or your war. The fact that you would believe yourselves to be some sort of an oracle for the rest of us is nothing short of insulting. As for the reasons for your war, I'm not going to get into that, but spying is the most flawed and invalid CB ever. You are no better than NPO to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energizer Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wouldn't let another alliance tell me how to run the internal structures so why should I let them tell me who can and can not apply? lol. Someone is looking for a smack down. I would sure raise hell if you took in a nation that was part of my ZI list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The fact that you would believe yourselves to be some sort of an oracle for the rest of us is nothing short of insulting. Then consider yourself insulted. It was a trend the we started and was quickly adopted by others afterward. Deny it if you want, but the facts are the facts. As for the reasons for your war, I'm not going to get into that, but spying is the most flawed and invalid CB ever. You are no better than NPO to use it. I like how you say you're not going to get into it, and then proceed to dive right in. Spying is and has always been a valid reason for war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Then consider yourself insulted. It was a trend the we started and was quickly adopted by others afterward. Deny it if you want, but the facts are the facts.I like how you say you're not going to get into it, and then proceed to dive right in. Spying is and has always been a valid reason for war. lol. Someone is looking for a smack down. I would sure raise hell if you took in a nation that was part of my ZI list. Anyone on the Poison Clan ZI list is free to apply to the New Sith Order. Your move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Then consider yourself insulted. It was a trend the we started and was quickly adopted by others afterward. Deny it if you want, but the facts are the facts. The existence of your alliance insults me. I like how you say you're not going to get into it, and then proceed to dive right in. Spying is and has always been a valid reason for war. Believe me - I did not. As for your reference to "has always been", well it's nice to know that you are not at all interested in changing anything in CN - despite your claims of the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The existence of your alliance insults me.Believe me - I did not. As for your reference to "has always been", well it's nice to know that you are not at all interested in changing anything in CN - despite your claims of the opposite. Then you're going to be insulted for a long time! So I tell you that spying is a valid reason for warfare and you come back with saying I am an upholder of the status quo? You haven't been paying attention to my moves then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Then you're going to be insulted for a long time! Sounds good - means I can derive some entertainment from being here for a long time. So I tell you that spying is a valid reason for warfare and you come back with saying I am an upholder of the status quo? You haven't been paying attention to my moves then. You are now missing the key part of what you previously said, which was you saying that spying has always been a valid reason for war. As you are content with continuing this most illogical tradition, labelling you an upholder of the status quo seemed like a perfectly appropriate thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Sounds good - means I can derive some entertainment from being here for a long time.You are now missing the key part of what you previously said, which was you saying that spying has always been a valid reason for war. As you are content with continuing this most illogical tradition, labelling you an upholder of the status quo seemed like a perfectly appropriate thing to do. In the case of "spying as a valid CB" then yes you're right. We're not here to challenge each and every international convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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