crushtania Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) TAB is not BTA and the current CIS is not the old CIS. This is a fresh start for the BTA, and bringing CIS up is as silly as condemning CIS for events two years old.Let sleeping dogs lie. Not when BTA is expressly mentioned as the direct predecessor alliance of TAB in their charter. Edited June 28, 2009 by Crushtania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater Posted June 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Not when BTA is expressly mentioned as the direct predecessor alliance of TAB in their charter. Then that sounds like an issue that TAB and the BTA might have doesnt it? Which means it’s something to be discussed between two alliances and not the world. TAB has known that I was reforming BTA for a while so don’t be fooled that this is some sort of a surprise. Sorum also knew that BTA was being reformed. I do believe you found out yourself, many former BTAers and non BTA members alike have also known of this for some time. If that is true then why make an issue of it now as opposed to when it was still in planning and you, or anyone who knew for that matter, could have given input to make this as smooth as possible? I have no problem working anything out with people in private but I try not to air laundry in the public. If you have an issue with this then brings it to me or the rest of the Gov. Don’t go grandstanding around trying to make a big deal out of an alliance reforming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I'm wait for Master-Debater to revive Blue Turtle Alliance. I soooooo called that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mathews Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 This alliance has a sexy name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crushtania Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Then that sounds like an issue that TAB and the BTA might have doesnt it? Which means it’s something to be discussed between two alliances and not the world.TAB has known that I was reforming BTA for a while so don’t be fooled that this is some sort of a surprise. Sorum also knew that BTA was being reformed. I do believe you found out yourself, many former BTAers and non BTA members alike have also known of this for some time. If that is true then why make an issue of it now as opposed to when it was still in planning and you, or anyone who knew for that matter, could have given input to make this as smooth as possible? I have no problem working anything out with people in private but I try not to air laundry in the public. If you have an issue with this then brings it to me or the rest of the Gov. Don’t go grandstanding around trying to make a big deal out of an alliance reforming. With all due respect, I have a soft spot for BTA and TAB as I was a former member of both alliances. I can see the connection between BTA and TAB as I was one of the 50 or so members made to change my AA from one to the other as part of the surrender terms. I am a Triumvir Emeritus of TAB and Triumvir of the alliance which is their greatest ally. If I didn't have a grievance, I wouldn't make a statement in this thread. For the record, I did know about this idea previously and I thought it was a bad one since I knew others would find fault with it too and for similar reasons to my own. Until then, the MHA will only be communicating with you in official channels. Edited June 28, 2009 by Crushtania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Interesting. I'll wait on TAB's response before I pass judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Every time I read the acronym BTA, I think of other things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Master Debater and I, have seen the bottom of the world and have endured. We're tough and fearless and for that reason, we're going to go places. Yes, I'm back in actual alliance politics and government. It feels strange and will take some getting used to. Hail the Blue Turtle Alliance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 The reasons for FoB being the reformed BTA's first ally are readily apparent to anyone paying attention, Master-Debater is a long time friend of the buccaneers and the former leader of many of us. As allies and friends we stand beside MD and BTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baden-Württemberg Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Not when BTA is expressly mentioned as the direct predecessor alliance of TAB in their charter. As far as I remember the old BTA disbanded after GWIII. I don't see why it is a problem when two alliances have direct predecessor alliances, and iirc MD has been BTO's leader for most of the time. I am pretty certain he was the one who founded the BTO the first time.... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Good luck, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crushtania Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 As far as I remember the old BTA disbanded after GWIII. I don't see why it is a problem when two alliances have direct predecessor alliances, and iirc MD has been BTO's leader for most of the time. I am pretty certain he was the one who founded the BTO the first time....Good luck. I beg to differ. http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...showtopic=62076 I'm sorry, but I just can't let this one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wa Mu Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 As a member of TAB, I see problems do exist. I hope that all problems are solved smoothly so we both can move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorum Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Firstly, Blue Turtle Alliance would suggest a blue alliance, right? Yet once again you messed that up. First aqua, then black? Congrats on bringing your best fail-face to the drawing board. Nice to see you back. I was so disappointed when I saw you had to be kicked out of the first one, which later became an Initiative puppet. I dispute this. TAB never became an Initiative puppet. At what point in time did I, or any other TAB govt become a puppet, pray tell? Then that sounds like an issue that TAB and the BTA might have doesnt it? Which means it’s something to be discussed between two alliances and not the world.TAB has known that I was reforming BTA for a while so don’t be fooled that this is some sort of a surprise. Sorum also knew that BTA was being reformed. I do believe you found out yourself, many former BTAers and non BTA members alike have also known of this for some time. If that is true then why make an issue of it now as opposed to when it was still in planning and you, or anyone who knew for that matter, could have given input to make this as smooth as possible? I have no problem working anything out with people in private but I try not to air laundry in the public. If you have an issue with this then brings it to me or the rest of the Gov. Don’t go grandstanding around trying to make a big deal out of an alliance reforming. And as I told you at the time, you should have cleared this with TAB. They are more BTA than this will ever be. You knew that certain people felt very strongly about this and yet you made no attempt to smooth things over before DoEing.TAB is not BTA and the current CIS is not the old CIS. This is a fresh start for the BTA, and bringing CIS up is as silly as condemning CIS for events two years old.Let sleeping dogs lie. *facepalms* TAB was the fresh start for BTA. You weren't even around then, what would you know of the BTA/TAB episode?If you believed in letting sleeping dogs lie, you wouldn't be protecting BTA, btw. EDIT: I just saw that Starfox is back. At least there is one good thing in this thread Edited June 28, 2009 by Sorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptGodzilla Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I remember back in the good days when I saved BTA from getting forced to disband from the likes of NPO, \m/, CIS, and NoR because of Master-Debater. At least with starfox you have one good dude Edited June 28, 2009 by CptGodzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Heh.. one can only ponder what HordeofDoom might have to say with this announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptGodzilla Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Master Debater and I, have seen the bottom of the world and have endured. We're tough and fearless and for that reason, we're going to go places.Yes, I'm back in actual alliance politics and government. It feels strange and will take some getting used to. Hail the Blue Turtle Alliance! You're a cool dude and all starfox, but you have that wrong. MD spent 6 months in peace mode before being allowed out. That's hardly 'enduring the bottom of the world' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorum Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Heh.. one can only ponder what HordeofDoom might have to say with this announcement. ah, good times, good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baden-Württemberg Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I beg to differ.http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...showtopic=62076 I'm sorry, but I just can't let this one go. I see, my bad then. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Näktergal Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 As far as I remember the old BTA disbanded after GWIII. I don't see why it is a problem when two alliances have direct predecessor alliances, and iirc MD has been BTO's leader for most of the time. I am pretty certain he was the one who founded the BTO the first time.... As Crush already pointed out, there are extenuating circumstances. But it bears repeating - there is a massive difference between an alliance having a "predecessor" in the sense that it came from and grew out of another alliance, and an alliance essentially BEING the same alliance under a different name. While MK isn't really LUE2 and GR isn't NAAC, TAB basically is BTA in almost every way that matters. It certainly retains continuity of identity in ways that make "reestablishing" BTA a joke at best and an insult at worst. Imagine the reaction had the members who left MCXA to form TSO had instead declared that they were reforming the Cross-X Alliance. It's safe to say most people probably wouldn't have considered that a very classy move. How do you think GATO would respond if someone claimed to be "reforming" the Cross Atlantic Treaty Organization? Hell, for that matter, we all SAW how TPF felt about people attempting to "reform" Total Fark. It's been accepted as common wisdom for years that the BTA became TAB (hey, just check the Wiki, or note that the old BTA forums are identified as TAB). Claiming to "reform" BTA is essentially denying that truth, and spitting in the face of TAB's right to its own heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Having the Blue Turtle Alliance on Black confuses me a little bit. You could have been the Black Turtle Alliance and kept the same acronym >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 As Crush already pointed out, there are extenuating circumstances. But it bears repeating - there is a massive difference between an alliance having a "predecessor" in the sense that it came from and grew out of another alliance, and an alliance essentially BEING the same alliance under a different name.While MK isn't really LUE2 and GR isn't NAAC, TAB basically is BTA in almost every way that matters. It certainly retains continuity of identity in ways that make "reestablishing" BTA a joke at best and an insult at worst. Imagine the reaction had the members who left MCXA to form TSO had instead declared that they were reforming the Cross-X Alliance. It's safe to say most people probably wouldn't have considered that a very classy move. How do you think GATO would respond if someone claimed to be "reforming" the Cross Atlantic Treaty Organization? Hell, for that matter, we all SAW how TPF felt about people attempting to "reform" Total Fark. It's been accepted as common wisdom for years that the BTA became TAB (hey, just check the Wiki, or note that the old BTA forums are identified as TAB). Claiming to "reform" BTA is essentially denying that truth, and spitting in the face of TAB's right to its own heritage. Having the Blue Turtle Alliance on Black confuses me a little bit. You could have been the Black Turtle Alliance and kept the same acronym >_> I think these two posts sum up the issue perfectly. And as TAB's ally, we'll be supporting whatever decision they make about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander John Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=61853 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Only problem with those examples, is that none of them lost a war, and were forced to change names and leadership. I see this BTA as a revival of the AEGIS era BTA alliance, and completely different from TAB in every way. While I see why you are angry about this, we have not attempted to recruit from TAB and nor will we. We will let them do their thing, and we'll do our thing. I don't see what the problem is here, really, aside from people worried about losing prestige and members, which won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 The Blue Turtle Alliance is officially reborn. The BTA is a Black team alliance Funny. Nevertheless, good luck MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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