The Turtles are Back

[St Jimmy]

Welcome back to the sphere, BTA. Best of luck to you.

[D34th]

The BTA is a Black team alliance

Why not Black Turtle Alliance then?

[Näktergal]

Only problem with those examples, is that none of them lost a war, and were forced to change names and leadership. I see this BTA as a revival of the AEGIS era BTA alliance, and completely different from TAB in every way. While I see why you are angry about this, we have not attempted to recruit from TAB and nor will we. We will let them do their thing, and we'll do our thing. I don't see what the problem is here, really, aside from people worried about losing prestige and members, which won't happen.

The problem with that logic is that the membership of BTA, by accepting the shift to TAB, were essentially validating the change. It's been nearly a year since CIS ceased to exist (the new version notwithstanding), and yet TAB never chose to revert to the original name, or invite the old leadership back. While TAB honors its past and remembers its time as the BTA with pride, it's also built a number of relationships and established history as TAB as well.

And in the aftermath of the debacle in question, the BTA members freely admitted that MD was the one responsible for the alliance's problems, and thus, forfeited any real right he had. In the same way the NPO rejected Ivan, or the GGA cast Prodigal Chieftain out, it's long-since established in CN that no alliance founder necessarily has carte blanche to control or own the identity of any alliance in perpetuity - especially if their actions directly harm that alliance.

When multiple members of TAB who have been with the alliance since the BTA era - along with former BTA members who are now in various other alliances - all state that TAB is BTA, and that MD is wrong for what he's doing, perhaps that says a great deal about the validity of such things.

[kobiashiy]

The original allaince was Blue Turtle Alliance, am I not right? So that means they want to keep the same name

[Starfox101]

The problem with that logic is that the membership of BTA, by accepting the shift to TAB, were essentially validating the change. It's been nearly a year since CIS ceased to exist (the new version notwithstanding), and yet TAB never chose to revert to the original name, or invite the old leadership back. While TAB honors its past and remembers its time as the BTA with pride, it's also built a number of relationships and established history as TAB as well.

And in the aftermath of the debacle in question, the BTA members freely admitted that MD was the one responsible for the alliance's problems, and thus, forfeited any real right he had. In the same way the NPO rejected Ivan, or the GGA cast Prodigal Chieftain out, it's long-since established in CN that no alliance founder necessarily has carte blanche to control or own the identity of any alliance in perpetuity - especially if their actions directly harm that alliance.

When multiple members of TAB who have been with the alliance since the BTA era - along with former BTA members who are now in various other alliances - all state that TAB is BTA, and that MD is wrong for what he's doing, perhaps that says a great deal about the validity of such things.

They accepted the change in a different time, a time in which fear ruled the world and many people like myself were made to be villians by The Initiative. The old BTA had problems that were caused by MD, according to you, and what exactly were those problems? He opposed the NPO? I'm sure it revolves around that.

BTA isn't trying to be TAB or take anything away from you. I still don't see what the big deal is.

[Joe Stupid]

Having the Blue Turtle Alliance on Black confuses me a little bit. You could have been the Black Turtle Alliance and kept the same acronym >_>

This, it just makes sense.

[Master-Debater]

Sorum said stuff here

I’m surprised Sorum. With how you reacted when I told you that BTA was being reformed I did not expect you to jump onto the “omg your evil” bandwagon so fast. It’s a shame you did this to. I had hoped to attempt to fix old bridges that were burnt down in the past.

To each his own.

Good luck with the MHA.

[Mixoux]

Ah, memories. Good luck with BTA.

[kingzog]

Any action that increases the number of people in the Black Sphere is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.

BTA members are welcome to offer trades to Nordreich nations, most of whom reside on the Black Team. Be forewarned, however, that many of us are already taking part in trade circles. However, if you see a NoR member with resources you want and who happens to have an open slot, then go for it.

With regard to tech deals, we have both formal and informal agreements with alliances to sell them NoR's delicious and nutritious tech, so I do not believe we will be able to help you in that regard. If you have people looking to sell tech, however, we probably have buyers. (Some of my boys and girls are quite greedy.)

Good luck in the future.

[King Srqt]

If TAB wanted to be BTA they should have had the guts to reject the terms that made them change the name. TAG forfeited the right to that name and no longer should have any authority over it. But seeing as though we are talking about an alliance who went to war with an alliance because they shared the same acronym I would not be surprised if they and their muscle in MHA bullied BTA into something.

Stand strong BTA and good luck.

Edited June 29, 2009 by KingSrqt

[kobiashiy]

If TAB wanted to be BTA they should have had the guts to reject the terms that made them change the name. TAG forfeited the right to that name and no longer should have any authority over it. But seeing as though we are talking about an alliance who went to war with an alliance because they shared the same acronym I would not be surprised if they and their muscle in MHA bullied BTA into something.

Stand strong BTA and good luck.

BTA is protected by FIRE if you didn't read the latest news from it

[Epik High]

The "blue" in Blue Turtle Alliance is modifying "Turtle", not the team color of the alliance. Maybe there's something special about blue turtles (like in Mariokart).

[James IV]

Any action that increases the number of people in the Black Sphere is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.

BTA members are welcome to offer trades to Nordreich nations, most of whom reside on the Black Team. Be forewarned, however, that many of us are already taking part in trade circles. However, if you see a NoR member with resources you want and who happens to have an open slot, then go for it.

With regard to tech deals, we have both formal and informal agreements with alliances to sell them NoR's delicious and nutritious tech, so I do not believe we will be able to help you in that regard. If you have people looking to sell tech, however, we probably have buyers. (Some of my boys and girls are quite greedy.)

Good luck in the future.

Now who would those people be?

I wish yall the best with your reformed home.

[Sorum]

I’m surprised Sorum. With how you reacted when I told you that BTA was being reformed I did not expect you to jump onto the “omg your evil” bandwagon so fast. It’s a shame you did this to. I had hoped to attempt to fix old bridges that were burnt down in the past.

To each his own.

Good luck with the MHA.

If you went by the books I wouldn't be so pissed off.

[TehChron]

If you went by the books I wouldn't be so pissed off.

This isnt like the NSO's challenge system where there are codified coups.

To be fair, I dont think there really *are* books for this kind of thing.

[Starfox101]

I would not be surprised if they and their muscle in MHA bullied BTA into something.

That's a good one, Srqt!

[Master-Debater]

I would not be surprised if they and their muscle in MHA bullied BTA into something.

Stand strong BTA and good luck.

Funny you should say that.

TAB and BTA are done with each other. Talks happened last night, things were talked about, it’s over. Both alliances aren’t too happy with each other but that’s expected.

MHA is and has been the biggest one making noise on this entire thing. TAB made one post and let it go from there.

MHA has continued to push the issue even after TAB and BTA have stopped.

I’m just wondering how long till MHA issues some sort of an ultimatum on behalf of TAB and former BTA members who aren’t happy.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

TAB is not BTA and the current CIS is not the old CIS. This is a fresh start for the BTA, and bringing CIS up is as silly as condemning CIS for events two years old.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Mmmm dat some delicious irony right there.

Perhaps people should heed their own advice as far as sleeping dogs are concerned and stop reforming old disbanded alliances with the same charters as everybody else, and the same structures as everyone else.

How about some ingenuity when forming an alliance, instead of relying on nostalgia for the good ol' days to keep you going.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Locke]

The "blue" in Blue Turtle Alliance is modifying "Turtle", not the team color of the alliance. Maybe there's something special about blue turtles (like in Mariokart).

#%#!#$^ blue shells!

Anyway, congrats to you guys, good luck with your (semi) new alliance.

[Choader]

Oh lawdy the irony.

Context much? By all appearances it looks like a comment on Crushtania bringing up surrender terms given by a disbanded alliance.

[Jacques Cousteau]

MD is a good guy. I am actually a little shocked to see an alliance like MHA acting like this.

[A Soviet Attack]

eh, MD was a terrible leader 2 years ago but I'm going to assume he's older and wiser now. Shame this wasn't done with the consent of TAB but whatever

lol at claiming TAB was ever an Initiative puppet though.

[Melkson]

This lacks Melkson approval.