The Future of the NPO

[RandomInterrupt]

What will be of the NPO after this war?

I think they'll try and rebuild quietly and begin planning their revenge.

What kind of changes do you see the NPO will do after this war?

Probably some cosmetic changes. They'll try to make it appear that they have learned their lesson and changed. The old hostility and arrogance is past and you have a kinder gentler NPO. In reality they'll probably just redouble their current attitudes and concepts and start killing their enemies with the same tactics as usual.

Will the NPO play a role on the next war? If so, in what capacity?

I think the NPO will play a role in every war. The populous and leaders of CN have proven that they are willing to believe anything the NPO tells them, and via this they can manipulate events without firing a shot. It's how they got to the top and it's how they'll get back there.

Will there be an alliance that is willing to sign a treaty with the NPO, If so, which ones?

As soon as the NPO gets back on their feet, the bottom feeders will come crawling back. There are some alliances out there that literally can not function without the NPO telling them what to do. They'll seek to get that sort of subservience and simplicity back.

Do you see any Karma alliance being allied with the NPO? If so, who and why?

"Karma alliance" is pretty poorly defined right now. But to answer the point, yes many of those who helped establish and perpetuate the hegemony that now pretend otherwise will come back to the fold.

Will the NPO seek vengeance? If so, which alliance(s)?

They will take everyone who is a part of this war, and who is not but they still hate. They'll make two lists. One list is the group they will seek to take ownership of. They will seek to do so. The other group either can not be owned or isn't worth the effort. That will be the list to kill. Same thing the NPO did post-UJW basically. It worked once so I can't see why they wouldn't do it again.

Will the NPO disband?

Sadly, no. Karma is not setup to do the job properly and finish them off.

Will there be a leadership change in the NPO?

Publicly, perhaps. Image is important. However I do not see any real changes happening. Again, I don't think Karma will be able to cut out the cancer. This war is just a round or two of chemo.

Do you want to see a leadership change in the NPO? If so? Who do you want to lead it?

Yes and no. I'd rather see the NPO collapse and die, but not happening. I'd also like to see Karma get in there and remove the cause of this entire conflict, but that wont happen either. So we're left with hoping some leaders decide to quit on their own and get replaced with someone who doesn't suck. It didn't happen like that without the war and so I can't see it happening now.

What kind of political influence the NPO have left towards the CN community? Do they still have any?

Plenty. Their skills have long been in selling lies and manipulating simpletons. In the post war era the same simpletons will be around leading alliances.

Ahh...but let's look at history.

The division between the Orders started because of the controversy surrounding Ivan's brief ascension at NPO in August 2007. It was further aggravated by Electron Sponge until finally in 2008 the OoO was dissolved. With a "friendlier" government in place, there are no longer any obstacles to the Orders being reunited.

I wish you knew how hilarious you really are. Your knowledge of... basically everything, is lacking here. There are many obstacles keeping the NPO and Polar from ever being allies again. Simply put, the alliances haven't been compatible as allies for literally years. Polar operates with honor. They are upfront and honest. The NPO are liars and manipulators. They've already proven this to be a case against Polar itself. And not just against former leaders of Polar, but against the entire alliance. It continues to this day.

The only way I can see the NPO allying with Polar again would be for the NPO to completely die and be reborn with new leaders, new members, and a new soul. It would have to be the NPO in name only. Anything less than that is simply not going to happen.

[raincoat2]

What will be of the NPO after this war?

I think they'll try and rebuild quietly and begin planning their revenge.

What kind of changes do you see the NPO will do after this war?

Probably some cosmetic changes. They'll try to make it appear that they have learned their lesson and changed. The old hostility and arrogance is past and you have a kinder gentler NPO. In reality they'll probably just redouble their current attitudes and concepts and start killing their enemies with the same tactics as usual.

Will the NPO play a role on the next war? If so, in what capacity?

I think the NPO will play a role in every war. The populous and leaders of CN have proven that they are willing to believe anything the NPO tells them, and via this they can manipulate events without firing a shot. It's how they got to the top and it's how they'll get back there.

Will there be an alliance that is willing to sign a treaty with the NPO, If so, which ones?

As soon as the NPO gets back on their feet, the bottom feeders will come crawling back. There are some alliances out there that literally can not function without the NPO telling them what to do. They'll seek to get that sort of subservience and simplicity back.

Do you see any Karma alliance being allied with the NPO? If so, who and why?

"Karma alliance" is pretty poorly defined right now. But to answer the point, yes many of those who helped establish and perpetuate the hegemony that now pretend otherwise will come back to the fold.

Will the NPO seek vengeance? If so, which alliance(s)?

They will take everyone who is a part of this war, and who is not but they still hate. They'll make two lists. One list is the group they will seek to take ownership of. They will seek to do so. The other group either can not be owned or isn't worth the effort. That will be the list to kill. Same thing the NPO did post-UJW basically. It worked once so I can't see why they wouldn't do it again.

Will the NPO disband?

Sadly, no. Karma is not setup to do the job properly and finish them off.

Will there be a leadership change in the NPO?

Publicly, perhaps. Image is important. However I do not see any real changes happening. Again, I don't think Karma will be able to cut out the cancer. This war is just a round or two of chemo.

Do you want to see a leadership change in the NPO? If so? Who do you want to lead it?

Yes and no. I'd rather see the NPO collapse and die, but not happening. I'd also like to see Karma get in there and remove the cause of this entire conflict, but that wont happen either. So we're left with hoping some leaders decide to quit on their own and get replaced with someone who doesn't suck. It didn't happen like that without the war and so I can't see it happening now.

What kind of political influence the NPO have left towards the CN community? Do they still have any?

Plenty. Their skills have long been in selling lies and manipulating simpletons. In the post war era the same simpletons will be around leading alliances.

I wish you knew how hilarious you really are. Your knowledge of... basically everything, is lacking here. There are many obstacles keeping the NPO and Polar from ever being allies again. Simply put, the alliances haven't been compatible as allies for literally years. Polar operates with honor. They are upfront and honest. The NPO are liars and manipulators. They've already proven this to be a case against Polar itself. And not just against former leaders of Polar, but against the entire alliance. It continues to this day.

The only way I can see the NPO allying with Polar again would be for the NPO to completely die and be reborn with new leaders, new members, and a new soul. It would have to be the NPO in name only. Anything less than that is simply not going to happen.

To expand on this, in addition to a large part of the NpO membership disliking the NPO, many of NpOs allies are on extremely bad terms with the NPO. So if NpO were to alliance with NPO, they would face ALLOT of internal resistance and be put in a very awkward position with current allies.

[Bilrow]

As is the number of Imperial Advisors which has risen quite a bit right? Just how many IO's and IA's are there?

Imperial Regent: Mary the Fantabulous

Imperial Counselor: Vladimir, Philosopher, Koona, Frawley, Bakunin's Dream

Standartenfuhrer: Dilber

Military Affairs: Loucifer, Umbrae Noctem

Diplomacy and Foreign Affairs: VektorZero, Hawk_11, DarkMistress and Triyun

Internal Affairs: noob5, Sir Donald R. Deamon

Economic Affairs: Millionario, Cortath, Lord Strider

News and Propaganda: Z'ha'dum

Clerk: Sir Paul

There you go.

Of the Imperial Counselors, only one active recently and not away (OOC: RL stuff) is Vladimir.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Bilrow

[Sir Paul]

As is the number of Imperial Advisors which has risen quite a bit right? Just how many IO's and IA's are there?

Well, according to RandomInterrupt, we not only run our alliance but several others. All things considered, we have rather a small small leadership corps for the huge amounts of responsibility.

Now, back to business:

*Takes out watch and swings it back and forth in front of HeinousOne*

You are getting sleepy. Very sleepy. You love the New Pacific Order. You want to attack those that are at war with her.

[Mussolandia]

I think he was agreeing with the bolded parts, not the idea of any leadership change. It might be hard for some of you to understand, but we like our Emperor and we support him fully.

I think it is time, for everyone's sake, to change your mind.

[Fallen Fool]

Imperial Regent: Mary the Fantabulous

Imperial Counselor: Vladimir, Philosopher, Koona, Frawley, Bakunin's Dream

Standartenfuhrer: Dilber

Military Affairs: Loucifer, Umbrae Noctem

Diplomacy and Foreign Affairs: VektorZero, Hawk_11, DarkMistress and Triyun

Internal Affairs: noob5, Sir Donald R. Deamon

Economic Affairs: Millionario, Cortath, Lord Strider

News and Propaganda: Z'ha'dum

Clerk: Sir Paul

There you go.

Of the Imperial Counselors, only one active recently and not away (OOC: RL stuff) is Vladimir.

I was unaware Zha and Koona still had nations. I was also under the impression that Frawley, and Bak were "Retired Imperial Officers."

Also another thing. You totally didn't list any of the Imperial Advisers, such as yourself and MaskofBlue.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[hizzy]

Also another thing. You totally didn't list any of the Imperial Advisers, such as yourself and MaskofBlue.

In his defense, Comrade Fail, I don't think it would be the best thing in the world to advertise such a position after they forced Polaris to remove it. What's that word? Hy... hypo... hypoc.... retarded.

[Cortath]

As is the number of Imperial Advisors which has risen quite a bit right? Just how many IO's and IA's are there?

Tradition? Tradition is but a tool to be used or discarded by those in power. If he was to need more IO's for any reason he would make them and tradition be damned, right?

The Imperial Advisory Committee is a completely different body than the Imperial Officers. The IAC generally has had four to eight members I believe.

You are correct. If more IOs were needed, we would make them. I'm not sure what kind of point you're going for though. We're evil because we recognize we need more personnel to run a growing alliance?

[Vilien]

The Imperial Advisory Committee is a completely different body than the Imperial Officers. The IAC generally has had four to eight members I believe.

You are correct. If more IOs were needed, we would make them. I'm not sure what kind of point you're going for though. We're evil because we recognize we need more personnel to run a growing alliance?

Growing?

[hizzy]

Growing?

I don't have the heart to break it to him....

[Cortath]

Growing?

*chuckles heartily*

Your one word response has demonstrably countered my argument. I applaud you, sir.

[Delta1212]

Ahh...but let's look at history.

The division between the Orders started because of the controversy surrounding Ivan's brief ascension at NPO in August 2007. It was further aggravated by Electron Sponge until finally in 2008 the OoO was dissolved. With a "friendlier" government in place, there are no longer any obstacles to the Orders being reunited.

BTW, how many shots in anger did NPO fire at Polaris? or STA? NSO wasn't around...not to worry though, it's the same number for all three. No, it's very safe to say that there is more hatred felt by STA for NPO's proxies as a result of that war last year than for NPO.

I will grant you that NPO is currently damaged goods. It would therefore not be in the best interest of Polaris or the rest of Frostbite to come forward in defense of NPO or even pretend to like them them at this point. If you are looking longer term and assuming that NPO actually gets peace and someday exits terms, the fit is a natural one and I'm confident that Ivan has already thought about...why? Because I'm thinking it now, and I've not seen a move yet that Ivan has made that I would not have. That's a compliment by the way, I have been impressed by him. He's lived up to his legend.

The question is: will NPO be interested? If they are truly interested in going a completely new direction, then no.

This post is amazing just because it sums you up so perfectly.

[Litha Riddle]

I think it is time, for everyone's sake, to change your mind.

Why? So that we'd want to abandon a comrade? Since being the Emperor doesn't stop him from being a comrade also. I don't believe in leaving people behind, and I would hate for us to do so with any of our comrades in leadership.

What little I have of my nation I would freely give for each and everyone of my comrades. Call it the daft commie in me, but thats how I roll

[HeinousOne]

Imperial Regent: Mary the Fantabulous

Imperial Counselor: Vladimir, Philosopher, Koona, Frawley, Bakunin's Dream

Standartenfuhrer: Dilber

Military Affairs: Loucifer, Umbrae Noctem

Diplomacy and Foreign Affairs: VektorZero, Hawk_11, DarkMistress and Triyun

Internal Affairs: noob5, Sir Donald R. Deamon

Economic Affairs: Millionario, Cortath, Lord Strider

News and Propaganda: Z'ha'dum

Clerk: Sir Paul

There you go.

Of the Imperial Counselors, only one active recently and not away (OOC: RL stuff) is Vladimir.

Those are not all Imperial Officers. That is unless you did some massive promotions. In my time Hawk_11, Darkmistress, Millionario, Cortath were not Imperial Officers. I cannot remember if Lord Strider was one or not so I am going to possibly error on the side of caution and say he was. They are officers with extreme power in their areas of focus but that is all, right?

For having the ability to expand when necessary why does News and Propaganda not have an active IO? Could really use a good one.

Well, according to RandomInterrupt, we not only run our alliance but several others. All things considered, we have rather a small small leadership corps for the huge amounts of responsibility.

Now, back to business:

*Takes out watch and swings it back and forth in front of HeinousOne*

You are getting sleepy. Very sleepy. You love the New Pacific Order. You want to attack those that are at war with her.

I do so enjoy such a high quality allusion to the previous discussion points about what some would call brainwashing, let it be known that I do not think that was my choice of words. You need to become a professor at the Pacific University and teach a course about the OWF. Just the thought of the things you could actually teach Pacificans on how to receive respect on these boards is a bit frightening.

The Imperial Advisory Committee is a completely different body than the Imperial Officers. The IAC generally has had four to eight members I believe.

You are correct. If more IOs were needed, we would make them. I'm not sure what kind of point you're going for though. We're evil because we recognize we need more personnel to run a growing alliance?

Well the Advisors are one of those steps up on the Ladder of Personality.

The NPO has always understood the power behind a meritocracy is to find ways to get alot of people involved while still keeping the real power centralized. Having Imperial Officers basically be such for life is definately a way of keeping that power centralized. The only "governing" body that the Body has any say so in is actually graded by those Imperial Officers.

Now, I never called this method of governing evil. I am simply speaking about the affects of such that is not always brought up.

Edited June 21, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Cortath]

Well the Advisors are one of those steps up on the Ladder of Personality.

The NPO has always understood the power behind a meritocracy is to find ways to get alot of people involved while still keeping the real power centralized. Having Imperial Officers basically be such for life is definately a way of keeping that power centralized. The only "governing" body that the Body has any say so in is actually graded by those Imperial Officers.

Now, I never called this method of governing evil. I am simply speaking about the affects of such that is not always brought up.

I don't know what a ladder of personality is.

I invite you to read my works explaining the Francoist system of government that we have constructed in Pacifica. I suspect it may answer many of your questions.

[HeinousOne]

I don't know what a ladder of personality is.

I invite you to read my works explaining the Francoist system of government that we have constructed in Pacifica. I suspect it may answer many of your questions.

I have read such my friend. I am not speaking about the method of intention, of how it was made to be, but instead of the method of evolution, how it came to be. Keep in mind this all comes from my perspective, of which I have never claimed to be an all inclusive viewpoint. The mountain of Pacifica is quite a tall mountain, the clouds gather at such heights and can often limit the viewing to that which is at your own level.

Many of those who are at that lower level of viewing see those speaking from up above as much more informed and thus what they say seemed to generally be taken for truth. Yet, due to my more active nature in interacting with the world I from time to time remember feeling as if we weren't getting all the truth and when making attempts to ask such things I was personally met with a much different face then what is normally presented to the alliance.

This is why I made claims that the NPO "resembles" a cult of personality and thus why I used the term ladder of personalities. A Meritocracy resembles a ladder in that by working you thus are able to climb and the higher you get the greater your personality becomes.

I realize you are probably going to disagree with me and that is ok Cortath but you said you didnt know what I meant by the ladder of personality so I did my best to explain it as I see it.

Edited June 21, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Bilrow]

Those are not all Imperial Officers. That is unless you did some massive promotions. In my time Hawk_11, Darkmistress, Millionario, Cortath were not Imperial Officers. I cannot remember if Lord Strider was one or not so I am going to possibly error on the side of caution and say he was. They are officers with extreme power in their areas of focus but that is all, right?

Those are our current Imperial Officers. The newer ones were promoted April 7, 2009. As far as their powers, they have their focuses but that doesn't mean, as an example, Cortath, as Imperial Officer of Technological Affairs, has no power to come and ask for something from the military side of things or any Imperial Officer for that matter if needed.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Bilrow

[Seerow]

Those are our current Imperial Officers. The newer ones were promoted April 7, 2009.

So you will not be punishing Hawk11 for impersonating an imperial officer then?

Alas, Bilrow you take all the fun out of life.

[Bilrow]

So you will not be punishing Hawk11 for impersonating an imperial officer then?

Alas, Bilrow you take all the fun out of life.

I punish Hawk11, that VE spy, all that time. I need no excuse.

[Seerow]

I punish Hawk11, that VE spy, all that time. I need no excuse.

Ah good to hear. Can we get the next round of punishment published as part of your next PR release? That way when we have another 200+ page thread we'll at least have something interesting to discuss.

[Cortath]

I have read such my friend. I am not speaking about the method of intention, of how it was made to be, but instead of the method of evolution, how it came to be. Keep in mind this all comes from my perspective, of which I have never claimed to be an all inclusive viewpoint. The mountain of Pacifica is quite a tall mountain, the clouds gather at such heights and can often limit the viewing to that which is at your own level.

Many of those who are at that lower level of viewing see those speaking from up above as much more informed and thus what they say seemed to generally be taken for truth. Yet, due to my more active nature in interacting with the world I from time to time remember feeling as if we weren't getting all the truth and when making attempts to ask such things I was personally met with a much different face then what is normally presented to the alliance.

This is why I made claims that the NPO "resembles" a cult of personality and thus why I used the term ladder of personalities. A Meritocracy resembles a ladder in that by working you thus are able to climb and the higher you get the greater your personality becomes.

I realize you are probably going to disagree with me and that is ok Cortath but you said you didnt know what I meant by the ladder of personality so I did my best to explain it as I see it.

Well, I suppose I can only relate my perspective.

I began in the NPO as a soldier. I was not an IO. I was not on the Alliance Council. Though I came from that "other planet," I was given no rank or special treatment because of that.

My superiors in the New Pacific Order told me what was happening in the world and in our alliance, and I generally found them to be telling me the truth. While I admit, our superiors frequently chose not to speak of something than lie to us, out of military necessity for protecting time-sensitive military information, I valued that truthfulness and forthrightness.

I don't think our meritocracy is a "cult of personality." If "personality" means, rank, then yeah, the higher you get on the "ladder" the higher your rank is. I think you'll find that people in the NPO are approachable and always willing to hear out new ideas and suggestions on how to improve the Order.

I'll tell a little story: a couple years ago, I went to an Imperial Officer, specifically, Sir Paul, who then led the News & Propaganda division, and Bakunin's Dream, whose exact IO position, I don't recall, but I think it as before he was Regent. I had an idea. A state-run technology procurement program. It was long and it was hard, but the idea was vetted by superiors, and refined by better minds than I, and eventually the program was put in place. Change happens in the NPO. Sometimes people are upset with the speed with which change happens, but it happens. Some members demand change immediately, without understanding that creating and managing large bureaucratic structures takes time to ensure that it is does properly.

My story, I think, is not a unique one in Pacifica. People are able to contribute in meaningful ways, but it requires maturity and understanding to contribute effectively.

[A Soviet Attack]

Yes this is a bit late, but I LOL'd hard @ the above.

You sir, are not even fit to carry Ivan's jockstrap. Comparing yourself to him? How absurd!

All the Body Republic knows or understands is hero worship.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

My story, I think, is not a unique one in Pacifica. People are able to contribute in meaningful ways, but it requires maturity and understanding to contribute effectively.

Nor is it unique to Pacifica. Any functional alliance has stories just like that. So?

When you catch a serial killer you dont let him free just because he was a nice guy to his wife and kids at home.

[Cortath]

Nor is it unique to Pacifica. Any functional alliance has stories just like that. So?

When you catch a serial killer you dont let him free just because he was a nice guy to his wife and kids at home.

I'm not sure what your point is. We're discussing the internal governance of the NPO. I'm not disputing what other alliances do or don't do, but responding to that post about our internal form of governance.

Not really sure how I feel being compared to a serial killer, but meh, I've heard worse.

[Fallen Fool]

I'll tell a little story: a couple years ago, I went to an Imperial Officer, specifically, Sir Paul, who then led the News & Propaganda division, and Bakunin's Dream, whose exact IO position, I don't recall, but I think it as before he was Regent. I had an idea. A state-run technology procurement program. It was long and it was hard, but the idea was vetted by superiors, and refined by better minds than I, and eventually the program was put in place. Change happens in the NPO. Sometimes people are upset with the speed with which change happens, but it happens. Some members demand change immediately, without understanding that creating and managing large bureaucratic structures takes time to ensure that it is does properly.

Before his recent retirement Bakunin was never an Imperial Officer. He went from being a member of the War Council to being Moo's Regent.

Also I recall your technology corps being shut down in because some of the IO's didn't like it. If I remember correctly you then needed to stroke Moo's ego for the better part of a week before he could find the courage to overrule them and reinstate it.