Ramirus Maximus Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 What is MHA's stance on this anyway? After all you still have an eternal treaty with them^^1 Year != Eternal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Kinda like how your side was led into this war based on a lie and falsehoods? Excuse me? A lie on OV's part. A falsehood in the form of the spy planted. So yes. We were led into the war based upon the lies and falsehoods of "karma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 obviously no one wants too really make progress, since it has been severly derailed from its original post and point. That counter-proposal was refused. we made a counter proposal with more money. in exchange to the extra terms too be dropped. (see OP for accuracy please). KARMA turned them down. Since KARMA turned down our counter proposal of MORE.. its clear that KARMA does not want peace. So since people of KARMA and the Haters of NPO wish too just keep flaming and dragging this on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and make 0 progress.. I ask that people go back and re-read the OP and get the thread BACK on topic or its my opinion CN ADMIN needs to close this thread.. So here let me give you a bigger stick so ya can keep Beating the dead horse. Many NPO already posted WE LOST.. So KARMA ill add mine, WE get it!!! NPO has LOST.. get over it already.. By not accepting our Counter offer of MORE it is my opinion this will add Negative Karma too the 18 alliances beating the admittingly DEAD HOSE.. im goin to bed, good night p.s. I would like too thank all those who have spoken up on our behalf in this thread. Thank you The fact that you believe that simply making a counter offer it MUST be accepted indicates that you have not fully accepted defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 /me points to AthensAlso, their reps were without the luxury of a 3 year estabilished and vaunted bank system Their reps of 14,000 was asked of 65 members, comparably by our estimates of the fastest the 90% numbers could reach and the 14 days of war, would result in less than 50 nations asked to not only pay 300,000 tech, but also 7 billion. That is an order of 39x larger with less nations after a war that lasted 5-7 times as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Vox refused to talk unless they were given white peace, we were given hours to think about this before they disbanded. Yes. Hours. 162 hours to be precise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirus Maximus Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Doesnt this kind of thing go against your codex, I know its in the (temp) bin at the moment but saying this is acceptable now shows Gramlins deem it to be fair and something they would accept themselves if defeated in a future war.I don't remember the Grämlins' Codex being in the bin, temporarily or not. But you see, the thing is, the Grämlins aren't at war with NPO, so our Codex doesn't apply. Sorry NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 obviously no one wants too really make progress, since it has been severly derailed from its original post and point. That counter-proposal was refused. we made a counter proposal with more money. in exchange to the extra terms too be dropped. (see OP for accuracy please). KARMA turned them down. Since KARMA turned down our counter proposal of MORE.. its clear that KARMA does not want peace. So since people of KARMA and the Haters of NPO wish too just keep flaming and dragging this on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and make 0 progress.. I ask that people go back and re-read the OP and get the thread BACK on topic or its my opinion CN ADMIN needs to close this thread.. So here let me give you a bigger stick so ya can keep Beating the dead horse. Many NPO already posted WE LOST.. So KARMA ill add mine, WE get it!!! NPO has LOST.. get over it already.. By not accepting our Counter offer of MORE it is my opinion this will add Negative Karma too the 18 alliances beating the admittingly DEAD HOSE.. im goin to bed, good night p.s. I would like too thank all those who have spoken up on our behalf in this thread. Thank you You are forgetting that every peace terms have a purpose. Here are several: 1) Give NPO harsh reps, similar to the reps they have given others. 2) Limit NPO's ability to rebuild, build a coalition, and initiate a similar "GW2" scenario 3) Punish NPO's higher infra and tech nations, who were the ones who received reps from past wars. I see no problem with any of these purposes, as they all fit the "Karma" label very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 In terms of percentages (tech on hand to tech required in reps) there have been MK, Polaris, Athens, and a few others that have had similar, or worse, terms.Come off this high horse, it does not suit you. You have no moral high ground here. As demonstrated these reps scaled are 39 times worse at a minimum than those given to athens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Excuse me? A lie on OV's part.A falsehood in the form of the spy planted. So yes. We were led into the war based upon the lies and falsehoods of "karma". No. Moo Cows himself has stated "all alliances accept information". So OV was as guilty of spying as the NPO is. I ask you this, flat out, no lies, no double speak. Do you see the NPO as guilty of spying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I see no problem with any of these purposes, as they all fit the "Karma" label very well. Especially when that wheel completes it's revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You are forgetting that every peace terms have a purpose. Here are several:1) Give NPO harsh reps, similar to the reps they have given others. 2) Limit NPO's ability to rebuild, build a coalition, and initiate a similar "GW2" scenario 3) Punish NPO's higher infra and tech nations, who were the ones who received reps from past wars. I see no problem with any of these purposes, as they all fit the "Karma" label very well. Too bad your terms were impossible to meet. Try again with ones that are. We'll accept them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Once you have paid enough reps to be below 100 tech, then tech will be cheap for you again.Because then by your rules you cant give it away for reps. This is incorrect. At the time of offering these terms, there were 181 nations which were eligible to pay the 300k in tech reparations. This eligibility would have remained even after they sent tech out till 0, and they could have rebought from 0 and continued sending if they desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is incorrect. At the time of offering these terms, there were 181 nations which were eligible to pay the 300k in tech reparations. This eligibility would have remained even after they sent tech out till 0, and they could have rebought from 0 and continued sending if they desired. Londo stop destroying the "the terms cannot be paid!!!!!!!" argument, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 /me points to AthensAlso, their reps were without the luxury of a 3 year estabilished and vaunted bank system It's already been established that these reps are far more than the Athens reps. After the 2 weeks of war and the time it takes to get to 90% out of PM, the tech terms will be more than NPOs total tech. And that's not including the cash reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 No.Moo Cows himself has stated "all alliances accept information". So OV was as guilty of spying as the NPO is. I ask you this, flat out, no lies, no double speak. Do you see the NPO as guilty of spying? Right, because everything ever said is the entire truth all the time, and no mistakes are ever made. Even then, I would venture that once the information is out there it MUST be accepted because it cannot be forgotton. Can someone please enlighten me as to the exact context of that quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 As demonstrated these reps scaled are 39 times worse at a minimum than those given to athens. Given that Athens didn't start that war, and that the NPO started both wars in question, in addition to other facts that NPO demanded 3/4's of MK's tech (if I remember right), and 7/8's of Athens tech (if I remember right) I see these as good terms, on par and similar to ones NPO has given in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirus Maximus Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Refusing to accept terms that are physically impossible to carry out is not refusing peace.I don't think you're trying hard enough Moo. The NPO can accomplish ANYTHING! Where's your RESOLVE?!?(Wait...I used that line already? My bad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is incorrect. At the time of offering these terms, there were 181 nations which were eligible to pay the 300k in tech reparations. This eligibility would have remained even after they sent tech out till 0, and they could have rebought from 0 and continued sending if they desired. Higher reps were offered in turn for actual peace. What exactly is the reasoning for declining higher reps from an enemy in exchange for removing an indefinite war period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontasemebro Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 My post will never be read, but I'd like to counter one quote. "Neither we nor anyone on Planet Bob have ever been subjected to terms with such clauses designed to keep an alliance destroyed for so long." What about those "indefinitely under our viceroyship" clauses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Also for those who care: 181 nations, assuming it takes 3 weeks to rebuild to a reasonable amount of infra. 15M/250 tech being sent out per nation (assuming no DRAs even though most probably have it). That amounts to 2.7B/45k tech per cycle that can be paid out. HARDLY undoable. The cash part could be paid off quickly, or, put off towards the end to "further rebuilding." Stop trying to tell me these terms are undoable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Given that Athens didn't start that war, and that the NPO started both wars in question, in addition to other facts that NPO demanded 3/4's of MK's tech (if I remember right), and 7/8's of Athens tech (if I remember right) I see these as good terms, on par and similar to ones NPO has given in the past. Actually in both engagements Athens declared on NPO. Not the other way around. As stated these terms are far beyond those given to MK and Athens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 As demonstrated these reps scaled are 39 times worse at a minimum than those given to athens. That's an interesting premise. I wonder if NPO has caused more than 39 times the amount of damage (in infrastructure, tech, land and money lost) to the Karma side than Athens did to the NPO+Friends. If so, Karma better increase the terms to balance things out and make it truly karmic. Or am I the only one that realizes the root of "reparations" is "repair"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Yes. Hours. 162 hours to be precise. They must've been so rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Right, because everything ever said is the entire truth all the time, and no mistakes are ever made.Even then, I would venture that once the information is out there it MUST be accepted because it cannot be forgotton. Can someone please enlighten me as to the exact context of that quote? That quote, if I remember right, was one of many in 3 day talks between NPO and OV and VE, with TOP mediators, in which NPO tried to strongarm OV into admitting a falshood. It didn't work, and we find ourselves in this situation in which the NPO is facing defeat in a war of their choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirus Maximus Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 If I nuke you, it will do damages of 80 tech. It I keep it up every day for 2 weeks, it will cause a damage of 1120.Your ability to fight a war does not really stop you from taking damage. In fact, basic war knowledge does pretty much nothing at all to limit damage when you are in a 3 v 1 war. Shhhh!!!! No one tell him! It's better they don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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