Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Krack]

So uhhh, what happened to this?

They went with the standard definition of draconian ("unusually severe or cruel") and then imposed terms that were less than that; terms that were far less than NPO had imposed on others (perma war, disbandment, viceroys); terms that reflect the amount of money/tech NPO extorted from others over the course of years (plural); terms that relect the extraordinary amount of damage NPO needlessly caused during this war to the victors; terms that are easily complied with under the NPO's own standards; and terms that will serve as a punishment for past deeds and as a deterent for alliances considering similar behavior in the future.

tl;dr:

They didn't let the people who got their behinds kicked redefine the word "draconian" to serve their own purposes.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Krack

[KingSuck]

They went with the standard definition of draconian ("unusually severe or cruel") and then imposed terms that were less than that; terms that were far less than NPO had imposed on others; terms that reflect the amount of money/tech NPO extorted from others over the course of years (plural); terms that relect the extraordinary amount of damage NPO needlessly caused during this war to the victors; terms that are easily complied with under the NPO's own standards; and terms that will serve as a punishment for past deeds and as a deterent for alliances considering similar behavior in the future.

tl;dr:

They didn't let the people who got their behinds kicked redefine the word "draconian" to serve their own purposes.

Have you actually read the terms?

[Bob Janova]

'Draconian' is in the eye of the beholder. The numbers are high, but this is a unique war; as Srqt says, the aggressor has been humbled, and also has a long list of past issues to deal with. The NPO offered to pay more, so they clearly aren't even at the upper limit of reason, and therefore the numbers alone can't be considered draconian for the NPO.

There is no improvement or wonder decom.

The 90% and the two weeks of war is the only part which could be considered draconian. NPO v ONOS set the precedent for peace mode 'hiding', but I am not that comfortable with this part myself; if I were on the front I would not have wanted that in the terms, and not offered terms until the objective was complete. This way seems slightly dirty to me.

[Electron Sponge]

You know what's vaguely amusing?

All the people colored red have found themselves at odds with Moo's government publicly at one point or another in the past year and a half, and all those in blue have left the game.

That Second Alliance Council was a group of handsome fellows.

A friend of mine told me a story about how his parents caught him smoking cigarettes when he was a teenager so they made him sit there and smoke the entire pack in one sitting. That gave me an idea. I think NPO should be forced to keep max military and sit in DEFCON 1 for a long time, that would be a novel approach at punishing them if that's what you're looking for. Make them have 50 cruise missiles, enough soldiers to make their citizens uncomfortable, and a bunch of tanks sitting there as well. They won't dig themselves out of that anytime soon.

Of course then people don't get to profit from their victory. As if all the tech you've scored raiding the enemy nations isn't enough. I dunno, I just think reparations are way, way overused.

[Farrin Xies]

We admitted we lost. We admitted we screwed up in the past. We were willing to accept terms that would have crippled us monetarily and kept us from building up to our prewar level.

What more do you really want?

[Taget]

Never have I wanted to flame so many so indiscriminately as after skimming fifty pages of this terrible, terrible thread. I hate all of you.

But isn't that how it is for any thread that goes beyond dozen pages? Or is it five pages? Or is three?

[Der Lowe]

We admitted we lost. We admitted we screwed up in the past. We were willing to accept terms that would have crippled us monetarily and kept us from building up to our prewar level.

What more do you really want?

Revenge.

[MisterShadow]

That Second Alliance Council was a group of handsome fellows.

A friend of mine told me a story about how his parents caught him smoking cigarettes when he was a teenager so they made him sit there and smoke the entire pack in one sitting. That gave me an idea. I think NPO should be forced to keep max military and sit in DEFCON 1 for a long time, that would be a novel approach at punishing them if that's what you're looking for. Make them have 50 cruise missiles, enough soldiers to make their citizens uncomfortable, and a bunch of tanks sitting there as well. They won't dig themselves out of that anytime soon.

Of course then people don't get to profit from their victory. As if all the tech you've scored raiding the enemy nations isn't enough. I dunno, I just think reparations are way, way overused.

This would be funny, you would have some people come on IRC saying OMFG NPO is ready for war and laughs would be had all around.

[muffasamini]

The 90% and the two weeks of war is the only part which could be considered draconian. NPO v ONOS set the precedent for peace mode 'hiding', but I am not that comfortable with this part myself; if I were on the front I would not have wanted that in the terms, and not offered terms until the objective was complete. This way seems slightly dirty to me.

And the 90% plus two weeks is the part that is preventing us from accepting the peace offer.

[Farrin Xies]

Revenge.

And how, pray tell, do you get that in [OOC]an effing game?[/OOC] Our disbandment? 'cause you'll never, ever, get that.

Edited June 13, 2009 by farrin

[Jimmy Hopkins]

You reap what you sew Pacifica. Plain and Simple.

[Beauty]

Oh god 112 pages, This fast?

[Raider]

Karma lied.

About what?

Yeppers. Yet were supposed to trust that after their round of wars on us they are going to reduce our peace terms to something managable? Somehow I think thats a lie too.

A member of the alliance that launched this war while still in the middle of talks is talking about lies? Very cute.

[HeinousOne]

That Second Alliance Council was a group of handsome fellows.

A friend of mine told me a story about how his parents caught him smoking cigarettes when he was a teenager so they made him sit there and smoke the entire pack in one sitting. That gave me an idea. I think NPO should be forced to keep max military and sit in DEFCON 1 for a long time, that would be a novel approach at punishing them if that's what you're looking for. Make them have 50 cruise missiles, enough soldiers to make their citizens uncomfortable, and a bunch of tanks sitting there as well. They won't dig themselves out of that anytime soon.

Of course then people don't get to profit from their victory. As if all the tech you've scored raiding the enemy nations isn't enough. I dunno, I just think reparations are way, way overused.

Interesting thought you have here Sponge. I would definately say its worth a shot.

[MisterShadow]

You reap what you sew Pacifica. Plain and Simple.

You reap what you sow btw.

Also how is it a nation that is 148 days old comment on how Pacifica is so evil without either being in it or seeing them at war, more than once? Also you arent even at war with us.

[Farrin Xies]

You reap what you sew Pacifica. Plain and Simple.

OK, we've reaped what we've sown. We've gotten knocked down in any way, shape, or form you could want. Again I ask, what now?

Edited June 13, 2009 by farrin

[King Srqt]

That Second Alliance Council was a group of handsome fellows.

A friend of mine told me a story about how his parents caught him smoking cigarettes when he was a teenager so they made him sit there and smoke the entire pack in one sitting. That gave me an idea. I think NPO should be forced to keep max military and sit in DEFCON 1 for a long time, that would be a novel approach at punishing them if that's what you're looking for. Make them have 50 cruise missiles, enough soldiers to make their citizens uncomfortable, and a bunch of tanks sitting there as well. They won't dig themselves out of that anytime soon.

Of course then people don't get to profit from their victory. As if all the tech you've scored raiding the enemy nations isn't enough. I dunno, I just think reparations are way, way overused.

I like that idea a lot.

[Petrovich4]

These are not draconian terms. If you wanted to see draconian terms you would have to see some of our emotions and imaginations working as one.

This thread is simply a publicity stunt that has miserably failed. We're not buying it and we're sticking to our guns. NPO's last ditch effort is full of fail since NPO has already enacted a couple of the surrender terms in this very OP. They want to see what we're made of.

Time is ticking to make it harder for them post war. They know it.

Tick, tock.

Tick tock.

[KingSuck]

'Draconian' is in the eye of the beholder. The numbers are high, but this is a unique war; as Srqt says, the aggressor has been humbled, and also has a long list of past issues to deal with. The NPO offered to pay more, so they clearly aren't even at the upper limit of reason, and therefore the numbers alone can't be considered draconian for the NPO.

Ummm no. Just because the reps could be bigger doesn't mean they are not already draconian.

Arguing that these terms are not extremely harsh is just going beyond the realm of stupidity. You can bang on all day long about how NPO may or may not deserve these terms but please for the love of admin drop this line of argument; it's painful to read.

[Der Lowe]

And how, pray tell, do you get that in [OOC]an effing game?[/OOC] Our disbandment? 'cause you'll never, ever, get that.

By killing you as much as possible in this [OOC]effing game[/OOC]. You're no FAN.

[Raider]

OK, we've reaped what we've sown. We've gotten knocked down in any way, shape, or form you could want. Again I ask, what now?

Accept the terms. That's it.

[Captain Flinders]

And the 90% plus two weeks is the part that is preventing us from accepting the peace offer.

So clearly the best idea when trying to negotiate better terms is to make a lengthy public post calling into question the integrity of the winners handing down the terms. It didn't work when the war started and it isn't going to do any good now. Why NPO seems to be the only alliance aware of this is a mystery to me.

Protip: If you want better terms, be more polite not less.

[Jimmy Hopkins]

You reap what you sow btw.

Also how is it a nation that is 148 days old comment on how Pacifica is so evil without either being in it or seeing them at war, more than once? Also you arent even at war with us.

Trust me, I've been around a lot longer than you think I have...

[Seerow]

That Second Alliance Council was a group of handsome fellows.

A friend of mine told me a story about how his parents caught him smoking cigarettes when he was a teenager so they made him sit there and smoke the entire pack in one sitting. That gave me an idea. I think NPO should be forced to keep max military and sit in DEFCON 1 for a long time, that would be a novel approach at punishing them if that's what you're looking for. Make them have 50 cruise missiles, enough soldiers to make their citizens uncomfortable, and a bunch of tanks sitting there as well. They won't dig themselves out of that anytime soon.

Of course then people don't get to profit from their victory. As if all the tech you've scored raiding the enemy nations isn't enough. I dunno, I just think reparations are way, way overused.

On that note here's a recopy of the terms I had suggested a few weeks ago in a different thread. I expect to be ignored again, but you never know.

1) All members must have 5 Guerilla Camps, 5 Barracks, 5 Missle Defenses, 5 Satelites, 5 Shipyards, 5 Drydocks, 3 Naval Construction Yard, and 2 Naval Academies. In the event a nation does not have enough population to support all of the improvements they must be bought in the order listed .(Example: A nation with 500 population must have 5 Guerilla camps)

2) All members must have maximum military, including soldiers, tanks, cruise missiles, planes, and navy.

3) By the end of terms every member of the alliance with 4000 infrastructure or more have both Agriculture Development Program and FSS

4) The following wonders must be decommissioned for all nations: Anti-Air Defense Network, Disaster Relief Agency, Foreign Airforce Base, Hidden Nuclear Missle Silo, Pentagon, Strategic Defense Initiative, Weapon Research Complex

5) No member may possess a nuclear weapon for the duration of terms

6) All nations must be set to defcon1 and Threat Level 1

7) No aid slot in the alliance may be used for the duration of terms for internal aid, external aid, tech dealing, or donation deals

8) All nations in peace mode are to remain in peace mode for the duration of terms +30 additional days

Edited June 13, 2009 by Seerow

[BamaBuc]

So uhhh, what happened to this?

Yeah, about that...

Guys, NPO has done a lot of stuff in the past. They're gonna get big terms. I accept that, and their counterproposal tells me they accept it too. But, wow... Reps are one thing, but the restrictions on how they can be paid are no more than a scorched-earth policy. You guys say you want peace. !@#$%^&*. What you want is NPO destroyed forever.

That mentality sound familiar? Hmm...

Before you jump on me, I'm not saying OMG KARMA = HEDGEMONEY!!!! NPO has done a lot of things wrong for a long time, while many (but not all) alliances attacked by the Hegemony had committed trivial wrongs or none at all. What I'm saying is that it's very easy to adapt to the mentality of destroying your foe utterly when you're on top and a long-despised enemy is at your mercy. That holds true anywhere.

NPO has done plenty wrong. But they don't deserve eternal war. That's what most of you want... NPO so destroyed that they don't have enough big nations left to pay your terms with the restrictions. Here's to outlasting them, Pacifica. Here's to a second chance. No order lasts forever. You know that better than anyone.

-Bama