New Pacific Order Reps Race

[thenb]

You have to feel bad for NPO. It is, what, 50 against one.

[Matthew Conrad]

It's safe to say that at this point, being at war with NPO is about more than just there NS or actual ability and/or desire to take over the world again. I suspect there's still as use for a common boogeyman.

Their desire has little changed. As for their ability, it seems much of their funding is still in peace mode so I would venture to say that exists also.

[Roadie]

Their desire has little changed. As for their ability, it seems much of their funding is still in peace mode so I would venture to say that exists also.

I wonder what you base the 'much of their funding' on?

[ModusOperandi]

Yes, I was, so what?

The NPO was wrong in waging the war for so long. Karma will suffer if they continue punishing the NPO beyond what some of its members consider appropriate. That is all.

Well, on that I completely agree with you; I have no desire to see another long, protracted conflict either.

[Matthew Conrad]

I wonder what you base the 'much of their funding' on?

The fact that their banks are in peace mode. I don't really see how it could have indicated anything else.

[Roadie]

The fact that their banks are in peace mode. I don't really see how it could have indicated anything else.

I get that part, but what I don't know is how much of their funding is in those banks. Compared to the rest of the money in that alliance, was it 10% of everything or 25% or 50% yadda yadda.

That and with only being able to move $15 or $18 million every ten days, I would think they would need to have a whole lotta banks to rebuild even half the NS they've lost. Which begs the question how many banks do they have?

[Matthew Conrad]

I get that part, but what I don't know is how much of their funding is in those banks. Compared to the rest of the money in that alliance, was it 10% of everything or 25% or 50% yadda yadda.

That and with only being able to move $15 or $18 million every ten days, I would think they would need to have a whole lotta banks to rebuild even half the NS they've lost. Which begs the question how many banks do they have?

They "claim" almost all of their nations in peace mode in the top tiers are banks. From what I've heard, they've got pretty significant amounts of money when you put it together. While it is true the movement of this money is limited by the rules of financial aid, that money can still significantly aid the rebuilding of those nations who have MP's in the lower ranks due to being beaten down there. So, you have an emerging group of mid level, nuke capable nations which would greatly help NPO in rebuilding it's military.

[Nizzle]

They "claim" almost all of their nations in peace mode in the top tiers are banks. From what I've heard, they've got pretty significant amounts of money when you put it together. While it is true the movement of this money is limited by the rules of financial aid, that money can still significantly aid the rebuilding of those nations who have MP's in the lower ranks due to being beaten down there. So, you have an emerging group of mid level, nuke capable nations which would greatly help NPO in rebuilding it's military.

You are very serious about this, aren't you?

A group of 5 banks can only assist 5 nations in a 20-30 day period, depending on how far they want to jump. Let's say they have 50 banks. That's 50 nations. In about a month. After paying these crazy reps.

That does not include rebuilding tech stockpiles, rebuilding other nations, and the fact that other alliances are going to outpace them in growth for some time.

Yeah, I would have to agree. They are still a threat. Make them all re-roll.

[Jack Diorno]

Spy attacks on the peace mode nations have revealed they have billions of dollars, NPO has around 60 nations above 25K NS in peace mode. they can each send out $3 million to six nations, thats $18 million a cycle, times that by the sixty nations and then you have over a billion dollars being moved every cycle.

This is only the peace mode nations, there are still a lot of low tier nations like the unfortunate Seticruncher, who were very large before the war, they probably still have giant warchests and will be able to rebuild themselves very quickly anyway.

NPO is still at a stage where rebuilding will be quick. To say otherwise is ignorant of examples shown by Polaris during the last war.

EDIT: just-woke-up grammar skillz

Edited June 4, 2009 by jack diorno

[Matthew Conrad]

You are very serious about this, aren't you?

A group of 5 banks can only assist 5 nations in a 20-30 day period, depending on how far they want to jump. Let's say they have 50 banks. That's 50 nations. In about a month. After paying these crazy reps.

That does not include rebuilding tech stockpiles, rebuilding other nations, and the fact that other alliances are going to outpace them in growth for some time.

Yeah, I would have to agree. They are still a threat. Make them all re-roll.

Well, thanks for putting words in my mouth. Of course I said we should make NPO re-roll, all of them! Oh, and don't forget the part where I said we should make them disband while we're at it! Huh, actually I don't think I said any of those things.

Anyways, if you're done with that, you 'll notice that I was talking about their MP nations and not the regular low NS ones. NPO still has a ton of wonders and that bank money, even though limited by slots, will still combine with their econ wonders to help them rebuild quite quickly. From reports, the banks alone can easily repay reps with billions saved up in there.

[Sandwich Controversy]

Yeah, I would have to agree. They are still a threat. Make them all re-roll.

I always knew you'd come to your senses

[Denial]

I'm fairly sure if presented with reasonable terms, minus these absurd "pre-terms", all parties would surrender.

I'm also fairly sure that, regardless of what definition you try to use aside from "ZI everyone", they are soundly beaten. The war is effectively won, it just hasn't been declared at an end. I'm quite surprised you missed that.

Well, then again, there is a good chance you would fully enjoy seeing every nation ZI'd. At least, that's the statement being made by multiple members of your front here. Who knows, though, none of you can even agree on these pre-terms and what they mean.

EDIT: Can we stop with the history lessons, everyone? The world has changed a lot since the "glory" days where it took 15 million to make a nation a killing machine.

You know, I would be very appreciative if you could shut your mouth when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm thinking we'd see a sharp decline of Nizzle posts from there on. Firstly, there were no pre-terms. It's amusing to see that your vindictive crusade against the war coalition you were once part of has reached the point where you're utilising and believing the propaganda of the opposition. Secondly, the opponents will be presented with reasonable, just surrender terms when the coalitions battling them have effectively won the war and are content with the level of punishment handed down. When you are involved in a defensive war, which was initiated for manufactured and dubious reasons, it is imprudent to conclude the war before your opponent has faced adequate reprisal. Anything short of that is only validating and excusing their aggressive actions.

Karma has yet to declare victory, so no, the war has not yet been won. I'm quite surprised you missed that. But hey, judging by the nonsensical crap that your spray around the forums, it appears as if you're entirely comfortable with offering up arguments with no factual backing whatsoever, just to further your campaign against former friends and war-time allies. Where are these statements from "multiple members" of the Pacific front declaring that they wish every Pacifican to be ZI'd? Are they government members? See, what's funny is that in your desperate effort to disparage C&G, LEO, Sparta, VE, Rok, and so on, you'll jump at the opportunity to interpret a few off-hand posts by regular members of those alliances as official policy. All the while maintaining a signature that declares "Any of my posts, unless specifically stated otherwise, represent my views and my views alone. I do not represent current policy or views of Kronos, again, unless I specifically state so." And you're a government member of Kronos! Nice double standards there. Lastly, again, there were never any pre-terms.

Judging by your ability to be entirely ignorant of history that was made only two weeks ago, I think we'll all be doing you a favour by continuing those history lessons.

More like another glorious exaggeration of something I said. Prove me wrong and name the reps or have whoever is in charge name the reps.

An exaggeration of something you said? Don't make me search through your posts to find the peak of your attempted martyrdom. We both know you subjected everyone to your doomsday predictions of EZI and eternal war. You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

Thats where we are now. NPO has lost most of their treaties, lost the vast majority of their NS and lost hundreds of members. The next step seems to be to beat them to a position so they can never properly rebuild, why else would no real terms for surrender be available unless they take a further beat down. Thats not breaking up Hegemony or punishing NPO its an attempt to permanently cripple them as an alliance.

Yes, yes, let's all weep for the alliance that still maintains 6.8m total nation strength and 750 members. They may have lost over two thirds of their strength in this war so far, but still maintain a level of strength that equates to a significant portion of blocs that have fought against them - 6.8m strength is more than the entirety of Stickmen, rivals Aztec, is slightly under Below, half of C&G, half of Bastion, half of LEO, and a quarter of Super Friends and Citadel. That is why the war continues. Because everyone here are fans of TOP, I'll adapt and incorporate a Crymson quote - we have continued this war "to ensure that [Pacifica] would not be a threat to us for some time afterward." What Pacifica has lost so far is part of the well-deserved consequences of their actions.

Wait what?

I think a decisive victory could possibly be turning a 20 mil NS alliance into a 5 mil NS alliance.

Then we're agreed. The Karma Pacific front is more than justified in continuing the war. It is the sensible thing to do.

(Check Pacifica's stats before you post, handsome).

Edited June 4, 2009 by Revanche

[shahenshah]

Their desire has little changed. As for their ability, it seems much of their funding is still in peace mode so I would venture to say that exists also.

I am sure their desire will change despite the stacking pre-terms.

Edited June 4, 2009 by shahenshah

[Vol Navy]

At this point the war continues on fear and fear alone.

People fighting NPO are afraid of the future consequences of this action and want that chicken to come home to roost as far from today as possible.

It's like someone pointed out either in this thread or one of the other 20 or so threads about NPO, they are like the horror movie monster. Jason, Freddie, Michael, etc. The alliances arrayed vs Pacifica fear them rising and creeping up behind them on a dark stormy night in the future.

Because of this people want Pacifica destroyed, completely. They'd dance in the streets if 600 nations left NPO, they'd throw a party if NPO disbanded. I honestly think they'd perma ZI the entire NPO if they thought they could manage it.

It has moved beyond vengence or paying for past actions. It's all about putting them down for a long time, if not forever because this is their one chance at it.

Such a coalition likely won't be possible in the future. I'd say if you could give half the Karma alliances a time machine and let them see the aftermath of the past two weeks or so, they wouldn't have participated in it this time.

People talk about keeping NPO's feet to the fire in a FAN like existance. The problem with that is that many of the alliances fighting NPO now have potential enemies in Karma that are now out of the war and on the road to recovery while they still fight on. With the next war already looming on the horizon, one particular bloc or side will have a signifigant leg up as this conflict drags on. People will have to choose, do we keep the red monster down or deal with the monster behind us?

[Roadie]

They "claim" almost all of their nations in peace mode in the top tiers are banks. From what I've heard, they've got pretty significant amounts of money when you put it together. While it is true the movement of this money is limited by the rules of financial aid, that money can still significantly aid the rebuilding of those nations who have MP's in the lower ranks due to being beaten down there. So, you have an emerging group of mid level, nuke capable nations which would greatly help NPO in rebuilding it's military.

So the concern then is, due to the money in those banks, NPO would still be able to rebuild rapidly if given peace at this point.

I haven't looked lately, but I'm guessing that NPO is around 7 mil NS. With 700+ nations, that's not much, but adding 10k NS to each wouldn't take long so even if Karma takes them down a few million more, NPO could be 10 mil or more NS in short order. Meaning it wouldn't take very long for NPO to be large enough to be a threat whether Karma whacks a few more mil NS or not.

Meaning Karma probably needs to get those banks out of peace mode and make them spend that money or get it from them in reps in order to achieve what Karma is really going for (preventing NPO from becoming a threat).

Is this basically the goal Karma is keeping in mind with these preterms? Either being able to fight it our of them or get it reps, I mean.

[Matthew Conrad]

I am sure their desire will change despite the stacking pre-terms.

Then it would be in their best interest to show it. I don't know why you think their desire will change despite no apparent shift in behavior and history saying otherwise.

[Chickenzilla]

All the NPO in the lower ranks are pretty much active and fight with honor. I enjoy being nuked everytime I fight them. o/

[shahenshah]

Then it would be in their best interest to show it. I don't know why you think their desire will change despite no apparent shift in behavior and history saying otherwise.

I knew I should not depend on Internet Sarcasm :| You missed the point.

[Matthew Conrad]

I knew I should not depend on Internet Sarcasm :| You missed the point.

Oh, my bad. Use a smiley next time

[naamah]

I really dont get the point anymore to be honest. At first it was amusing due to the sheer arrogance displayed, the "do something about it" attitude. Now though y'all have stomped them pretty flat, offer the peace terms and be done with it already. It would seem like you had the "stern talking to" already, just what are the current goals? My perception is its more just kicking them while they are down now...

[Roadie]

I really dont get the point anymore to be honest. At first it was amusing due to the sheer arrogance displayed, the "do something about it" attitude. Now though y'all have stomped them pretty flat, offer the peace terms and be done with it already. It would seem like you had the "stern talking to" already, just what are the current goals? My perception is its more just kicking them while they are down now...

It's about NPOs ability to rebuild is the impression I get.

Edit: And I base that on the lack of response to my latest post.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Roadie

[Comrade Korey]

Just keep on steamrollin'. It's Cybernations, make someone cry at their computer if you can (and I don't mean by OOC bickering, I mean from ingame actions because if someone cries over this game they really deserve it)

[Scarlet Ellen Red]

New Pacific Order Reps Race

Day 9

Old Total

1175 Nation Violations

3.525 Billion

117,500 Tech

+16 days of terms

Today's Add-on's

131 Nations Violated

393 Million

13,100 Tech

+ 2 days of terms

Total so Far

1306 Nation Violations

3.918 Billion

130,600 Tech

+18 days of terms

I have a little add-on to these. I did the numbers real quick. So people will know, i just want to show it. So assumeing that only 60 NPO nations had to aid out as much as they could for reps before there terms was up. Depending on the length of the terms, we will assume they have 90 days for now, and what wonders the nations have, we will assume they all have the DRA because there the top nations, you should get a number around this (also note tech and money would be sent both at the same time):

Max Aid That Can Be Given (see above)

9.720 Billion

162,000 Tech

Comments:

Perma-Ban from #nsa for asking for a link to NPO's history... i feel so loved... the favor is returned

[Disclaimer: Now this topic isn't a debate about those terms, as the title says, I made this to inform everyone what those terms would be, if added up. I am simply informing you what they are, so please don't write mis-informing reports. I am not here to debate how good/bad/ok/not-ok the terms are. I am just simply writing what they would be. So please don't throw tons of flames out there. Pwease ]

[Angrator]

It continues to surprise me that people still support low reps for the NPO. This is an alliance that took a beating in GWI and rebuilt to such levels that eventually it effectively became a unipolar world. Like them or hate them, they achieved such epic heights that wherever Pacificia walked, the whole world shook. When an alliance has reached such a place in the past, it is laughable to try to underestimate them now. They didn't get to their position by being stupid. Oh shucks grandma, I forgot to put some money in the bank and I can't pay my bills. Heck no! They have billions upon billions in the bank and they have more determination than most, if not all, of the alliances arrayed against them. They have been fighting for over a month, lost most of their NS, and still their membership is hanging on. You want to give the strongest players in the game a second go because of your conversion to the ideals that you fought against for 3 years. I understand that. But at the very least, you have to understand the perspective of those who are fighting against the NPO. As the saying goes, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. In the entire history of their alliance, including the countless wars that they fought, they only lost once. Period. Alliances fighting the NPO just aren't going to let this once in a lifetime chance go because some of their former allies complain about it on the forums.

[The Poet]

It continues to surprise me that people still support low reps for the NPO. This is an alliance that took a beating in GWI and rebuilt to such levels that eventually it effectively became a unipolar world. Like them or hate them, they achieved such epic heights that wherever Pacificia walked, the whole world shook. When an alliance has reached such a place in the past, it is laughable to try to underestimate them now. They didn't get to their position by being stupid. Oh shucks grandma, I forgot to put some money in the bank and I can't pay my bills. Heck no! They have billions upon billions in the bank and they have more determination than most, if not all, of the alliances arrayed against them. They have been fighting for over a month, lost most of their NS, and still their membership is hanging on. You want to give the strongest players in the game a second go because of your conversion to the ideals that you fought against for 3 years. I understand that. But at the very least, you have to understand the perspective of those who are fighting against the NPO. As the saying goes, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. In the entire history of their alliance, including the countless wars that they fought, they only lost once. Period. Alliances fighting the NPO just aren't going to let this once in a lifetime chance go because some of their former allies complain about it on the forums.

I agree with you, (death to NPO). However I disagree with every point you have made (or failed too) in this post.