Poyplemonkeys Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 See, I had reduced my post to make it more succinct, but by different war I meant because we were not really involved in VietFAN. In fact, we remained essentially neutral against FAN until they spied on us. That was our CB for war, we even had our own nifty DoW to go along with it. We continued the war due to the continued acts of espionage by FAN. This is different to TPF and others who simply joined NPO's re-declaration on FAN and used that as their primary CB for two years. I say "not completely unrelated" only because FAN spied on us due to our connection with NPO/Q. I don't think it's e-lawyering to say the two wars were separate, because they are. I have also not denied that we maintained a ridiculously long war with FAN, but we did have our own reasons for doing so and our own reasons for declaring peace in that ridiculously long war. Whereas some may see TPF's peace as trying to save their image, the same cannot be said for MHA as we have an image already of being peaceful and merciful to others. So our peace was more "expected" than these others, as it's something MHA is known to do, and that is my point. The criticism is not of giving peace, but the alliances giving it and why, for which MHA and TPF are fundamentally different. I do wonder how many times MHA went to FAN and tried to solve the problems before this or if they just kept them down for so long without giving second thought to it because you could. FAN have never been against a white peace judging by the number of times they said they'd accept it when talking about the NPO, yet it took you until now, when everyone else has peaced out with them, to make the offer. I'll gladly withdraw this post and hail the heck out of MHA if they've approached FAN and been rejected before nwo though, otherwise you're no better than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brass Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 The bARbie, this is NOT a crime/defacement of an SP1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOONS Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Congrats on peace. Hail FAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Sriv Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 mhawk.... we could save the world from an asteroid by landing on it and tearing it apart with our bare hands and they still wouldn't like us. Oh well...Oh, and...I couldn't find a gun, so I brought this.... am i doin it right? EDIT: Grammar Close.. but number 1 rule.. Never bring a knife, to a gunshow.. errr Fight... wait.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscher Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 You think it would've been better for him to peace FAN while just letting NPO keep them at eternal war? I mean the TPF military machine was obviously an essential part of the war effort against FAN. Wow this makes absolutely no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 It is not worth debating this with you any longer given the overwhelming degree of arrogance exuded. Since when does arrogance make debate worthless? It doesn't make your argument unfairly unconvincing. An arrogant opponent has a huge weakness exposed. Embarrass me by arguing me wrong and watch that pride come crashing down. No mhawk, it isn't arrogance you are detecting, it's a superior argument. And once again you've chosen the easy way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrrie Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 That rifle in the OP makes me cry a little bit inside, not going to lie. Also, o/ peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I will not get into a debate of insulting anyones intelligence, so please do not insult mine. "Talks" that began many months back, should have taken a grand total of 20 seconds to complete, if you "Truly" wanted this war with FAN over. Its almost like when massive treaty cancellations precede a war...everyone denies the reason. The citizens of this planet are not foolish, and its time those formerly in power, realize this. We do not make peace until our allies make peace. Simple as that. As I believe Mhawk has said, he's been working with NPO and FAN for months on this, since long before it was the cool thing to do. But regardless, we weren't gonna leave an ally in a war. (in before UJW comments... I love how not putting up with OOC attacks is evil now) -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Lakes Union Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Whereas some may see TPF's peace as trying to save their image, the same cannot be said for MHA as we have an image already of being peaceful and merciful to others. So our peace was more "expected" than these others, as it's something MHA is known to do, and that is my point. The criticism is not of giving peace, but the alliances giving it and why, for which MHA and TPF are fundamentally different. Oh please, if your move wasn't about your image in the new order of things why did YOU wait so long? Face it, you ran with the "Hegemony" for quite some time and now you're just trying to get everyone to forget that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yinner Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 wow...never thought THIS day would come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jipps Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 MHA's comments earlier in the thread are quite amusing. Best of luck to FAN, this really was expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I do wonder how many times MHA went to FAN and tried to solve the problems before this or if they just kept them down for so long without giving second thought to it because you could. FAN have never been against a white peace judging by the number of times they said they'd accept it when talking about the NPO, yet it took you until now, when everyone else has peaced out with them, to make the offer.I'll gladly withdraw this post and hail the heck out of MHA if they've approached FAN and been rejected before nwo though, otherwise you're no better than the others. We knocked FAN back once about a year ago, after which they again came back to us and we initiated peace talks, mostly due to FAN's apology to us. In December 08, MHA declared a Christmas Truce with everybody including FAN. We have had a standing unofficial cease fire since then, and MHA offered the Black Peace to FAN. I won't pretend that it was easy for us, or that we've always been willing to give peace. Initially it took perserverance from Bad Juju. But that was because a significant betrayal of trust had occurred, and trust takes time to heal. Peace came because FAN had apologized and were no longer spying on us. As we said in our announcement, both sides had enjoyed our war and it was more about having a good fight the trying to keep FAN down. Clearly, no one can keep FAN down. Oh please, if your move wasn't about your image in the new order of things why did YOU wait so long? Face it, you ran with the "Hegemony" for quite some time and now you're just trying to get everyone to forget that fact. I think you are confused. Mhawk compared TPF's peace to MHA's. I am merely responding to that comparison and discussing why I don't think the two are the entirely the same and that MHA is more well liked than TPF. I am not trying revise history, as I think MHA has always been different and more liked than TPF, certainly before we gave FAN peace and before this war started. Running with the hegemony doesn't mean you're exactly the same as them. If we were, then perhaps we'd be in the position that TPF is now. My comments clearly show a confidence in the image of the MHA, we have nothing to be worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jipps Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I think you are confused. Mhawk compared TPF's peace to MHA's. I am merely responding to that comparison and discussing why I don't think the two are the entirely the same and that MHA is more well liked than TPF. I am not trying revise history, as I think MHA has always been different and more liked than TPF, certainly before we gave FAN peace and before this war started. Running with the hegemony doesn't mean you're exactly the same as them. If we were, then perhaps we'd be in the position that TPF is now. My comments clearly show a confidence in the image of the MHA, we have nothing to be worried about. Since when is CN a popularity contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Congrats guys. Glad to see this is coming to an end. Mine completely kicks your $@!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Since when is CN a popularity contest? Since the pretentious took poltical control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I think you are confused. Mhawk compared TPF's peace to MHA's. I am merely responding to that comparison and discussing why I don't think the two are the entirely the same and that MHA is more well liked than TPF. I am not trying revise history, as I think MHA has always been different and more liked than TPF, certainly before we gave FAN peace and before this war started. Running with the hegemony doesn't mean you're exactly the same as them. If we were, then perhaps we'd be in the position that TPF is now. My comments clearly show a confidence in the image of the MHA, we have nothing to be worried about. But what I'm really interested in is what your stance is on the new soda machines for the lunch room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jipps Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 But what I'm really interested in is what your stance is on the new soda machines for the lunch room. The soda machines are more liked than TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 The soda machines are more liked than TPF. I concur with this, those soda machines are amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I concur with this, those soda machines are amazing. Darn, guess its time to throw in the towel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Houston Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Since when is CN a popularity contest? Lol, Jipps. Isn't that what the last couple of years has been about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Congrats to FAN for getting all the peace you have. I've been in TPF for close to 600 days now and never fired a single shot at a FAN nation. To be honest I didn't even know we were still at war with FAN but obviously we were. I do find it very comical that MHA is trying to claim the higher ground here. MHA was an active member of Q, rolled out the tanks and guns in Q military actions, and had a 1 year war with FAN which they peaced out yesterday. The main difference in Bob's outlook on MHA vs TPF at this point, MHA left Q a few days ahead of the mob, circled around town and blended right in with the mob in calling for heads. Someday the other half of Q may stand and face the music, but since Karma is already fraying at the seams, I doubt it. More likely they will continue to rise while other parts of Karma cannibalizes itself, getting their shots in at some of their current allies along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I don't think one can compare the MHA-FAN peace to this, as our peace was for an entirely different (though not completely unrelated) conflict. We had an actual, different CB against FAN, an individual declaration of war, and conducted peace talks individually and separately from any other alliance. Yes MHA and TPF have announced peace with FAN around about the same time, but that doesn't make MHA and TPF similar - we merely have something in common for the moment and it's likely that the people posting here have made that distinction. It boils down to not a critique of the act of giving peace, but the alliances who are giving it. Some people just like apples more than oranges. Your peace with FAN is clearly superior to our peace with fan. May you be hailed robotically for eternity. Or until MHA flops sides again to whichever is the more popular. Here's to hoping war with FAN never becomes 'fashionable' again so FAN doesn't have to fight MHA anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 We do not make peace until our allies make peace. Simple as that. As I believe Mhawk has said, he's been working with NPO and FAN for months on this, since long before it was the cool thing to do. But regardless, we weren't gonna leave an ally in a war.(in before UJW comments... I love how not putting up with OOC attacks is evil now) -Bama The absolutely amazing part about all of this is that you seem to actually BELIEVE that you were staying at war with FAN to help protect your allies from a threat. You also seem to actually BELIEVE that this peace with FAN has zero to do with the current state of global politics. FAN gets white peace. FAN has said from day 1 that they would accept white peace....yet "negotiations" needed to occur. Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) We knocked FAN back once about a year ago, after which they again came back to us and we initiated peace talks, mostly due to FAN's apology to us. In December 08, MHA declared a Christmas Truce with everybody including FAN. We have had a standing unofficial cease fire since then, and MHA offered the Black Peace to FAN. So what I got from this was you knocked FAN back a year ago and haven't attempted to initiate any peace talks since then. Other than this 'unofficial cease fire' you've had with everyone, which is a far cry from peace. All I'm saying is don't try claiming your peace is different to TPF's because you've kept FAN at war with no attempt to offer them peace, just as they did. Both of your alliance's kept FAN at war until they no longer could before releasing them. The only difference being the reasons each of you could no longer keep FAN at war. Edited May 15, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) I think you are confused. Mhawk compared TPF's peace to MHA's. I am merely responding to that comparison and discussing why I don't think the two are the entirely the same and that MHA is more well liked than TPF. I am not trying revise history, as I think MHA has always been different and more liked than TPF, certainly before we gave FAN peace and before this war started. Running with the hegemony doesn't mean you're exactly the same as them. If we were, then perhaps we'd be in the position that TPF is now. Running with the hegemony means you support their actions, this is evidenced by the fact that when the hegemony went to town on FAN you were right there with them. Don't bother with this separate CB garbage, I'm sick of being fed that crap already, just tell the truth. You kept the war going because it was FAN and because there was pressure from your allies (read: NPO) to stay in the war. The separate CB is just a convenient way for you to distance yourselves from the hegemony now that the tides have turned. Unfortunately for you we can all see through that propaganda. You stuck with them for a long time despite their actions, and the only reason you're now on the happy side of the war is because you had the strategic nous/lack of conviction to spread your treaties and relationships wide enough so you wouldn't ever be forced into a losing war. Honestly, I don't care if you didn't really support their CB against FAN as you seem to enjoy implying, the fact remains that you kept your treaties with the offending parties (so it obviously wasn't too much of an issue for you) and that was all the support that they needed. Just as TPF did. The only difference is TPF are honest about their loyalties, whereas you seem to side with whoever is most popular. Edited May 15, 2009 by Aimee Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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