New, Easier, and More Realistic Tech Scale <CNRP>

[Bacharth]

So, myself, LVN, and Subtle have talked about it, and we've agreed on a new way to deal with technology and OOC whining. No longer will you be defined by technological year. I think a few of you will hate this, as it will stop weapon creation before a certain tech level.

Background

Before any scientific experiment or anything like that, background information must be given. In real life, people aren't at certain tech levels, like at '89 tech or '74 tech. Technology levels are divided, in RL, into three distinct terms: First World, Sub-Modern, and Third World.

In RL, First world nations are constantly developing new technologies and inventing stuff. Sub-Modern buys technology from First world nations and produces it in their own nation and are able to maintain it. Third World nations get the scraps from other nation and have to steal or get given old technology and are barely able to maintain it.

So, how does this translate into CNRP?

Currently, we have a Log Based tech system. It helps lower nations get more modern tech, starting at about level 300 tech. However, at tech year 2005, people stop using real tech and start inventing their own. Everything below that is pretty set in stone, and nobody, save for a few nations, creates anything.

So, we've simplified the tech year system and made it into something more like the tiers I've explained above. Nobody will be losing any technology, and if anything, people would be increasing in their technological capabilities.

New Tech Scale

First of all, the three tiers.

Third World Nation (0-299 tech)

Your technology level is very low, and are developing your own way in the world. You have cold war technology (1990), and any tech you recieve from other nations (weapons, aircraft, etc.) is not easily maintained, and you have to buy each plane. It's much like what buying tech from other nations is now. Grandfather rule: those that have been here longer than 2 months are automatically put in the next category, and if they have been already making stuff regularly (i.e.: Uberstein), they are exempt from the creation rule.

Sub-Modern Nation (300-999 tech)

Your technology has reached a modern level, and you can build anything military-wise that currently exists (not in alpha testing, so laser plane and the walking robot buzzing thing is out while the F-35 is in). You can get blueprints to produce stuff from other nations and make and maintain it, but you cannot create anything. Other things, such as hydroponics and non-military stuff you can research and build. Again, people like Uberstein would be exempt from this rule.

First World Nation (1000+ tech)

Inventions start coming from your nation, and you can build anything your heart can imagine (of course, within the rules of what can and cannot exist in CNRP, so no mechs, lasers, or rods from god). You're still limited to IG soldiers, tanks, nukes, CMs, etc. Now, beyond this your tech level still matters for your army efficency, but a lot less. Design statistics will matter less, but in the case of very small things, there is an efficiency formula for your armies, courtesy of LVN.

TE = 1+ (Tech / 10000 * ( 1+ WRC)) Where WRC (Weapons Research Complex (wonder)) is a logical 1,0 statement of having a IG WRC. (1 = you have one, 0 = you don't)

That way, we still maintain design coolness, and tech advantage.

IE: Nation A fights Nation B. Nation A has 3000 tech, Nation B has 2000. Hence, nation A has a TE of 1.3, nation B of 1.2. So nation A's troops etc are 1.3/1.2 = 1.08 =8% better than nation B's.

So, in theory, in the case of two people that are rping equally, and both people have some good tactics, and one of them is not just going, "LOL, 100,000 paratroopers on your capital!" (yes, I'm poking fun at myself), this scale will be used, but no more will people say, "I have better tech, you lose." Well, if a First world is invading a third world, the case is different, the tech difference will matter a lot.

Other Stuff

Remember, this is only a suggestion that has been agreed upon by all three GM's, and we want to know your opinion. In short, none of you will be retconned, even those that already make stuff. Those of you that have been here longer than a month will automatically be in the Sub-Modern tier, so like, Sarah will be sub-modern, and Uberstein will still be able to make his designs. It's only a coincidence he gets used in every guidelines example, heh.

[Tahsir]

I'd have to say against. Everything is to vauge when people submit this new tech scales, with one exception. LVN's tech scale nerfed everyone but the super elite tech users to be sub-modern. Which was not a better solution.

I'd approve of a better system, but something that doesn't send 50% of the world back into Elvis era...

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Definitely in favor of this. I've been a tech seller for the past four months which means I've been a third world nation this whole time. Naturally I'm not saying that you know people that have been here should automatically get help, but it definitely gives incentive for newbies...like myself in recent months to sticking it out. Keep up the good work, LVN, Vince, and Subtle.

[Sargun II]

I am very much in favor.

My 1,006 tech allows me to have cool-looking units while still not being at a huge disadvantage. Sure, I'll be at a disadvantage against 2000 tech nation, but a 20% disadvantage isn't going to kill me. It'll hurt like balls, but that's why it's called a disadvantage.

[Bacharth]

I'd have to say against. Everything is to vauge when people submit this new tech scales, with one exception. LVN's tech scale nerfed everyone but the super elite tech users to be sub-modern. Which was not a better solution.

I'd approve of a better system, but something that doesn't send 50% of the world back into Elvis era...

Actually, this would send most of the world into the modern era.

[Sargun II]

I'd have to say against. Everything is to vauge when people submit this new tech scales, with one exception. LVN's tech scale nerfed everyone but the super elite tech users to be sub-modern. Which was not a better solution.

I'd approve of a better system, but something that doesn't send 50% of the world back into Elvis era...

You didn't even read a single thing..

[LeVentNoir]

Um, dude. Its actually really easy to get 1000 tech. And this is not 'My tech wins' This is a way of a: Allowing more freedom, because, you can have 1; stuff you want, 2; fudge small details of technological stuff and b; because for first world nations, the strength of the weapon is based straight off tech, its a simple, I have a army, it has these, and it would fight just as well with world war 1 weapons, hence, less OOC fights.

[LeVentNoir]

I am very much in favor.

My 1,006 tech allows me to have cool-looking units while still not being at a huge disadvantage. Sure, I'll be at a disadvantage against 2000 tech nation, but a 20% disadvantage isn't going to kill me. It'll hurt like balls, but that's why it's called a disadvantage.

Actually, 1.2/1.1 is closer to only 1.11, or 11% stronger, even less of a disadvantage.

This makes tech less OMGINSTAPWN, and more, when "I flank you, I will have a small built in advantage", meaning, tactics become more important.

Edited May 4, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Sargun II]

Actually, 1.1/1.2 is closer to only 0.89, or 11% weaker, even less of a disadvantage.

This makes tech less OMGINSTAPWN, and more, when "I flank you, I will have a small built in advantage", meaning, tactics become more important.

Which means that more real thought and RP go into it, and less "my uber tanks roll over ur infantry".

I support this 100%.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

In a very rare even, I am for this new system. Not only does it provide a more user friendly, slightly lenient, loose system, it also moves my tech up about 20 years

EDIT: Though I'm still agaisnt the no mechs thing. As long as no one is building some 100 story tall eight legged artillery platform, mechs are totally possible, serve distinct advantages over tanks, and the only reason we don't have them right now is that the military doesn't want them

Edited May 4, 2009 by Il Terra Di Agea

[V The King]

The overall idea's alright, but I think that, as it is, it levels the nations far too much - it'll make the bulk of RP'ers First World. From a logical perspective (and as it currently is in our world), there will be some on the top, some on the middle and some at the bottom (might I note, in RL, there are some "First World" nations, some "Sub-Modern", but most fall on the "Third World" category).

I think that, if the idea is to be implemented, the brackets should go as follow:

Third World: - 0-500

Sub-Modern: 501-3000

First World: 3001 +

Still... I'm not 100% confident in this suggestion. By removing the technological roof, I believe nations will advance far too much in RP, and soon we'll all be RP'ing as thought as we were in 2050 or something like that. Creativity will soon turn into absurdity, even if they may seem like they're sticking to the rules, and no one will want to be roleplaying what we actually have in hands right now.

[Sargun II]

I believe moving past 2030 really is a bit absurd - and besides, you've always needed proof something could work if it's a new type of machine. Honestly, this puts the Roleplay back in CybernationsRoleplay.

[LeVentNoir]

The overall idea's alright, but I think that, as it is, it levels the nations far too much - it'll make the bulk of RP'ers First World. From a logical perspective (and as it currently is in our world), there will be some on the top, some on the middle and some at the bottom (might I note, in RL, there are some "First World" nations, some "Sub-Modern", but most fall on the "Third World" category).

I think that, if the idea is to be implemented, the brackets should go as follow:

Third World: - 0-500

Sub-Modern: 501-3000

First World: 3001 +

Still... I'm not 100% confident in this suggestion. By removing the technological roof, I believe nations will advance far too much in RP, and soon we'll all be RP'ing as thought as we were in 2050 or something like that. Creativity will soon turn into absurdity, even if they may seem like they're sticking to the rules, and no one will want to be roleplaying what we actually have in hands right now.

Good idea, raising the roof on "Sub-Modern".

So, thoughts?

1000 Tech?

2000 Tech? (Supported)

3000 Tech?

Also, there is still a technological roof, roughly ~10 years from now. Anything past 2020 is out really.

[Sargun II]

Good idea, raising the roof on "Sub-Modern".

In the actual game, once you get to 1000 tech you've already unlocked all that there is (navy, airforce, nukes, tanks) and after that it's just bonuses. The last tech scale was at least close to proportionate with the actual game, so should this one.

(though 2000 wouldn't be too bad if we absolutely had to)

[Bacharth]

V, I can see where you're going, but what this does is retcon a lot of nations, and seeing as 1000 tech is when people start making stuff anyway, it doesn't matter really. We're not changing the ceiling, because with this people are still going to make stuff that's questionable.

[LeVentNoir]

In the actual game, once you get to 1000 tech you've already unlocked all that there is (navy, airforce, nukes, tanks) and after that it's just bonuses. The last tech scale was at least close to proportionate with the actual game, so should this one.

(though 2000 wouldn't be too bad if we absolutely had to)

But, I counter, versions of all of those existed in the 50's. (The actual elements, the names are not important and broken IG anyway). When new things start occurring is the true mark of First world-iness. So, yeah, you do get those things IG at 1000 tech, but would it not make sense for nations to advance more before making truly new things (waiting 500-1000 tech) ?

[Kaiser Martens]

I had voted no, though on a second thought in spite of the system not being as accurate as the old one it seems much more easy to moderate, so sacrificing accuracy for the sake of less OOC whining is worth it.

[Madame Unicorn]

It's a good idea and I'm for it.

It makes it easier to 'classify' nations, and it seems a lot more lenient than the years scale.

Easier to follow, too. It seems.

[LeVentNoir]

I had voted no, though on a second thought in spite of the system not being as accurate as the old one it seems much more easy to moderate, so sacrificing accuracy for the sake of less OOC whining is worth it.

Yeah, that was the entire idea. Simply put, "it does not matter about the details, just get on with your war". Also leads to "I don't care you have X, Y, Z, they still have a 3% advantage, so no.

[LeVentNoir]

I have a extra point that could be added, Third World nations have a TE of 0.8, and Sub Modern have one of 1. These are deviations from the nice formula as they emphasize that, yeah, your troops / weapons etc, are quite a bit worse than the standard / are the standard.

Edited May 4, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Markus Wilding]

Just one question, I've been here a while but I have 100-something tech lost from the recent war. Am I still allowed in the Sub-Modern category, if I'm in it at all?

[Lord Frost]

Not bad at all. Im still going to RP my tech the way I have been, which means "lol techscale", but Not bad at all

[Bacharth]

Just one question, I've been here a while but I have 100-something tech lost from the recent war. Am I still allowed in the Sub-Modern category, if I'm in it at all?

If you've been here longer than a month, you'd be grandfathered.

Also, the sub-modern cap has been raised to 1500 as a compromise.

Edited May 4, 2009 by VinceSixx

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Long as I can still tech trade with modern nations and bring my nation up to the strength of a modern nation through trade deals.. I have absolutely no problem with this scale. Fact is many "third world" nations live first world qualities of life and have first world equipped military just based on the trade arrangements and support arrangements they make.

[LeVentNoir]

Long as I can still tech trade with modern nations and bring my nation up to the strength of a modern nation through trade deals.. I have absolutely no problem with this scale. Fact is many "third world" nations live first world qualities of life and have first world equipped military just based on the trade arrangements and support arrangements they make.

Thanks for reminding us, we are going to have to rework the tech trade too, else its going to be spammed all over the place again.