New, Easier, and More Realistic Tech Scale <CNRP>

[Subtleknifewielder]

Just one question, I've been here a while but I have 100-something tech lost from the recent war. Am I still allowed in the Sub-Modern category, if I'm in it at all?

If you've been here longer than a month, you'd be grandfathered.

Correct. Also, you are allowed to "freeze" your stats if you believe you're going to be losing quite a bit fairly soon. The only thing is you have to record said stats where people can see them.

Also, the sub-modern cap has been raised to 1500 as a compromise.

I can agree with that.

Thanks for reminding us, we are going to have to rework the tech trade too, else its going to be spammed all over the place again.

Well, that's what this thread is for, to work out the kinks.

[Bacharth]

Well, what I was thinking is that you wouldn't really need to post up that you're buying all this tech, and since you're not sharing tech levels, people can trade with more people, and be a nation that actually sells planes or creates blueprints for their sub-modern allies to create. All you'd need to do is post in your factbook who you're selling to, and have an actual legitimate and rp reason for doing so (good relations between nations, alliances, blocs, etc.)

[LeVentNoir]

Well, what I was thinking is that you wouldn't really need to post up that you're buying all this tech, and since you're not sharing tech levels, people can trade with more people, and be a nation that actually sells planes or creates blueprints for their sub-modern allies to create. All you'd need to do is post in your factbook who you're selling to, and have an actual legitimate and rp reason for doing so (good relations between nations, alliances, blocs, etc.)

Good idea. Tech share becomes technological trade. No increase in tech levels to be noted, however, designs can be sold with RP. Third world cannot make more, and need aid to maintain them. Sub modern can make the designs, however, they still will not be able to just buy a first class military.

[Mergerberger II]

A question about this. What part would pre established defences play in all of this? For example, I have built or am otherwise planning to build massive defences around my nation which would be incredibly difficult to break through even with the most modern of weapons. Would the proposed efficiency bonus have an effect on this in that it would give them an advantage over the defences even if there would not be one, typically, in real life? For example if I was attacked by Lynneth, and he stormed my North Sea border, which is fortified by a 20m thick and 15m tall Sea Wall, would he still be able to break through even though something like that would be a) near impossible to destroy, and incredibly expensive at that, and B) the massive rubble from the destroyed structure would clog him up?

Basically do my pre-existing defences count as part of my tactical advantage over an invading enemy, and are they discredited by this system in any way?

[LeVentNoir]

A question about this. What part would pre established defences play in all of this? For example, I have built or am otherwise planning to build massive defences around my nation which would be incredibly difficult to break through even with the most modern of weapons. Would the proposed efficiency bonus have an effect on this in that it would give them an advantage over the defences even if there would not be one, typically, in real life? For example if I was attacked by Lynneth, and he stormed my North Sea border, which is fortified by a 20m thick and 15m tall Sea Wall, would he still be able to break through even though something like that would be a) near impossible to destroy, and incredibly expensive at that, and B) the massive rubble from the destroyed structure would clog him up?

Basically do my pre-existing defences count as part of my tactical advantage over an invading enemy, and are they discredited by this system in any way?

Two things are to note.

A) In history, if you have a more advanced nation, the first thing you get is the ability to have better weapons than the other person armour. So, there is nothing which cannot be destroyed by someone with better tech [Head on]. (However, it would prove hard to defeat with less tech, so try going around, over, or using novel tactics[ie; don't go head on])

B ) Even if it is destroyed, it will still present as rubble etc.

So, to answer your summary.

Yes and No.

The entire thing is tactics. First of all, let us assume your defenses can be destroyed with your own weapons. Hence, they can be destroyed by lesser weapon, at say, 92% percent efficiency RTY (relative to you), so, it will slow them down, and it will prove hard. However, if they have 109% efficiency RTY, they will be able to destroy it faster than you could.

HOWEVER, this is if they choose to try to destroy them head on. Anyway, the TE (Technological Efficiency) basically applies to weapons and armour as a measure of their effectiveness based on their advancement. It does not stop them being better or worse due to good / bad use. So, yes, static defenses would work at your TE, however, depending on the opponents TE, they or may not be as effective as planned.

[Ranather]

I'm still not completely sure either way if I like it or not, so I'll just continue observing the discussion for a while.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Anyone else have anything to contribute? Thoughts? Questions? We do need your feedback.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Thanks for reminding us, we are going to have to rework the tech trade too, else its going to be spammed all over the place again.

I don't see how a one to one system can be spammed and I like tech trading the way it is. Just keep it one vendor one receiver and all should be well.

[Subtleknifewielder]

I don't see how a one to one system can be spammed and I like tech trading the way it is. Just keep it one vendor one receiver and all should be well.

No need for that if these changes are implimented, from what I can see. Technology purchases and whatnot would have to be legitmately RP'd.

[Bacharth]

Well no, with this system there is no more sharing tech levels, there will be only sharing technology, selling blueprints, weapons, aircraft, and the one to one tech selling will be no more, otherwise this tech scale will lose a lot of it's plausibility.

[Markus Wilding]

I agree, unless "tech selling" is also defined by somebody as planes and weapons selling. <.<

[Cody Seb]

I'm heavily in favor of this. I was skeptical as I began reading even, but there is a lot of merit to this idea. The ambiguity is actually a plus in my eyes, as it is in RL. Also, it will simultaneaously better define the classes and eliminate the nigh God Mod tech deals (Like back not too long ago when 150 Tech nations had aircraft carriers from sales).

Honestly, I think its the best of both worlds. Staunch RP supporters get their extended importance of RP and Stat supporters still have their wishes met.

[LeVentNoir]

I don't see how a one to one system can be spammed and I like tech trading the way it is. Just keep it one vendor one receiver and all should be well.

Under the old tech share, you could easily get a 1000 tech boost, jumping you from third world to nearly modern. Next, if every small nation got one of those, then we would all be "first world" which would just be wrong.

Now we are changing it to technological trade, of single items / designs only.

[Voodoo Nova]

I like this idea more. I am curious though, who would get grandfathered for what?

[Tahsir]

You didn't even read a single thing..

I missed the grandfathered rule. Sue me. Srsly you'll get like 10 bucks :lol:

Good idea. Tech share becomes technological trade. No increase in tech levels to be noted, however, designs can be sold with RP. Third world cannot make more, and need aid to maintain them. Sub modern can make the designs, however, they still will not be able to just buy a first class military.

Might have a solution to stopping someone from having 500 third world tanks to suddenly getting 500 first world tanks.

Nerf the number of first world tech they can have based on their tech level.

So say a sub modern nation can field 500 tanks IG. Well if they get tech for a first world tank they can only have 400 or 350 of them. Something to reflect the cost it would take to produce the more advanced technology.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tahsir Re

[Bacharth]

I like this idea more. I am curious though, who would get grandfathered for what?

Those that have been around here for more than a month (an actual player here, and not just a nation), will get bumped to sub-modern. I'll make a list of people that will be bumped up.

Those that already make cool designs and items will be able to continue to, which is probably just Baron Uberstein, but they will be able to continue if they wish, although their efficiency and tech tier stays the same.

Also, we're going by last saved tech levels, and not current tech sharing levels, as that kind of tech sharing will be obsolete.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Those that already make cool designs and items will be able to continue to, which is probably just Baron Uberstein, but they will be able to continue if they wish, although their efficiency and tech tier stays the same.

*Cough*

[LeVentNoir]

Also, we're going by last saved tech levels, and not current tech sharing levels, as that kind of tech sharing will be obsolete.

Indeed, these tiers are based purely on IG tech, existing tech share agreements will be null and void, and your position in the tiers will be determined by your IG tech at all times.

Edited May 6, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Subtleknifewielder]

Well no, with this system there is no more sharing tech levels, there will be only sharing technology, selling blueprints, weapons, aircraft, and the one to one tech selling will be no more, otherwise this tech scale will lose a lot of it's plausibility.

That's what I meant when I referred to selling technology. Not the ingame tech, but specific designs, etc.

Might have a solution to stopping someone from having 500 third world tanks to suddenly getting 500 first world tanks.

Nerf the number of first world tech they can have based on their tech level.

So say a sub modern nation can field 500 tanks IG. Well if they get tech for a first world tank they can only have 400 or 350 of them. Something to reflect the cost it would take to produce the more advanced technology.

Hmm. That's an intriguing idea. Vince? LVN? What say you?

[LeVentNoir]

That's what I meant when I referred to selling technology. Not the ingame tech, but specific designs, etc.

Hmm. That's an intriguing idea. Vince? LVN? What say you?

Good idea.

Base it on TE. If you can have say, 1000 tanks at a TE of 1 (Ie Sub modern) and you buy tanks from a nation with a TE of 1.3, you can have 1/1.3 * 1000 tanks = ~670 tanks.

Repeat for whatever you are buying, and it maintains balance.

[Voodoo Nova]

Indeed, these tiers are based purely on IG tech, existing tech share agreements will be null and void, and your position in the tiers will be determined by your IG tech at all times.

Alright, thanks Vince and LVN. You've added some reasons for my support of this new tech scale.

[Bacharth]

Good idea.

Base it on TE. If you can have say, 1000 tanks at a TE of 1 (Ie Sub modern) and you buy tanks from a nation with a TE of 1.3, you can have 1/1.3 * 1000 tanks = ~670 tanks.

Repeat for whatever you are buying, and it maintains balance.

Well, sub-modern doesn't buy individual weapons, they buy blueprints and develop the blueprints.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Well, sub-modern doesn't buy individual weapons, they buy blueprints and develop the blueprints.

Continuing to use the tanks as an example: But it would still cost them more to build the more advanced tanks than ones at their own level.

The third-world nations would, of course, be buying the individual tanks.

[LeVentNoir]

Well, sub-modern doesn't buy individual weapons, they buy blueprints and develop the blueprints.

And making those weapons etc costs more, so while for third world it represents what they can buy, for sub modern it represents what they can affordably make.

[Uberstein]

Those that have been around here for more than a month (an actual player here, and not just a nation), will get bumped to sub-modern. I'll make a list of people that will be bumped up.

Those that already make cool designs and items will be able to continue to, which is probably just Baron Uberstein, but they will be able to continue if they wish, although their efficiency and tech tier stays the same.

Also, we're going by last saved tech levels, and not current tech sharing levels, as that kind of tech sharing will be obsolete.

I fully support this movement.

Also, I try to keep my designed tech within reach of my tech scale tech. My armored car design? It was a nice 1980's chunk of armored car. TOW missiles, automatic grenade launcher, amphibious, ugly , the works.