New, Easier, and More Realistic Tech Scale <CNRP>

[Markus Wilding]

That reminds me, what year would Sub-Modern end and First World begin? 1989? 1991? 2000?

[Cody Seb]

That reminds me, what year would Sub-Modern end and First World begin? 1989? 1991? 2000?

Sounds like there would be no tech years. Either way it doesn't matter as once you reach 1,000 tech you're First World.

[Markus Wilding]

Well I imagine it would be hard if a nation began developing a 2007 weapon only to find out that they cannot "create" it yet. I like to make sure that the weapons I use fall under the category I'm in, and as such I don't know when my "cutoff" year should be.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Well I imagine it would be hard if a nation began developing a 2007 weapon only to find out that they cannot "create" it yet. I like to make sure that the weapons I use fall under the category I'm in, and as such I don't know when my "cutoff" year should be.

The point is, you wouldn't be doing a lot of creating as a sub-modern nation in the first place, unless it was a collaboration with a first-world nation.

[LeVentNoir]

That reminds me, what year would Sub-Modern end and First World begin? 1989? 1991? 2000?

Its fuzzy. Submodern are things which are in active service atm, (not testing, not trials, so ABLs is out). If its not submodern and more advanced, its First World.

Sounds like there would be no tech years. Either way it doesn't matter as once you reach 1,000 tech you're First World.

Its actually 1500 tech.

[Bacharth]

Well, it sounds like this thing will be implemented. Any final comments or arguments?

[Subtleknifewielder]

Going once, going twice...

Edited May 7, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[Markus Wilding]

Sold! To me.

Very good though, I like it.

[Arkantos]

*Shouts at last second*

20 MIL!!!!!!!!!

Not really, I'm in bill lock

[Sargun II]

Raising the level from 1000 to 1500 while voting was still going on is ridiculous. That'd be considered fraud if halfway through voting on something one of the important numbers was changed.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Raising the level from 1000 to 1500 while voting was still going on is ridiculous. That'd be considered fraud if halfway through voting on something one of the important numbers was changed.

Yeah, probably. But look at it like this. It's not likely to go up any further, considering 1000 tech is where you have every military unit it is possible to get ingame available.

[LeVentNoir]

So, Vince_Sixx, LeVentNoir, and Subtleknifewielder have talked about it, and we've agreed on a new way to deal with technology and OOC whining. No longer will you be defined by technological year. I think a few of you will hate this, as it will stop weapon creation before a certain tech level.

Background

Before any scientific experiment or anything like that, background information must be given. In real life, people aren't at certain tech levels, like at '89 tech or '74 tech. Technology levels are divided, in RL, into three distinct terms: First World, Modern, and Third World.

In RL, First world nations are constantly developing new technologies and inventing stuff. Modern buys technology from First world nations and produces it in their own nation and are able to maintain it. Third World nations get the scraps from other nation and have to steal or get given old technology and are barely able to maintain it.

So, how does this translate into CNRP?

Previously, we had a Log Based tech system. It helped lower nations get more modern tech, starting at about level 300 tech. However, at tech year 2005, people stoped using real tech and started inventing their own. Everything below that was pretty set in stone, and nobody, save for a few nations, created anything.

So, we've simplified the tech year system and made it into something more like the tiers we have explained above. Nobody will be losing any technology, and if anything, people would be increasing in their technological capabilities.

New Tech Scale

First of all, the three tiers.

Third World Nation (0-299 tech)

Your technology level is very low, and are developing your own way in the world. You have cold war technology*, and any tech you recieve from other nations (weapons, aircraft, etc.) is not easily maintained without help. It's much like what buying tech from other nations is now IRL. Grandfather rule: those that have been here longer than 2 months are automatically put in the next category, and if they have been already making stuff regularly (i.e.: Uberstein), they are exempt from the creation rule.

*{1980-90ish}

Modern Nation (300-1499 tech)

Your technology has reached a modern level, and you can build anything military-wise that currently exists*. You can get blueprints to produce stuff from other nations and make and maintain it, but you cannot create anything. Other things, such as hydroponics and non-military stuff you can research and build. Again, people like Uberstein would be exempt from this rule.

*{not in alpha testing, so laser plane and the walking robot buzzing thing is out while the F-35 is in}

First World Nation (1500+ tech)

Inventions start coming from your nation, and you can build anything your heart can imagine*. You're still limited to IG levels of soldiers, tanks, nukes, CMs, etc. Now, beyond this your tech level still matters for your army efficency, but a lot less. Design statistics will matter less as there is an efficiency formula for your armies, courtesy of LVN.

*{To a technological limit of the year 2020, of course, within the rules of what can and cannot exist in CNRP, so no mechs, lasers, or rods from god}

Some background to this. This is a number designed to represent a ratio of effectiveness in a trial, respective to a Modern nation. It is designed to show the relative effectiveness of weapons and systems in a certain task for head to head comparison.

It is your Technological Effectiveness, (TE).

TE = 1+ (IG Tech / 10000 * ( 1+ WRC)) Where WRC (Weapons Research Complex (wonder)) is a logical 1,0 statement of having a IG WRC. (1 = you have one, 0 = you don't)

This is taken almost straight from the game, where it works as the damage multiplier for war attacks. That way, we still maintain design coolness, and tech advantage.

EXAMPLES AND STATEMENTS.

Since Third World and Modern nations do not have extensive self research labs, they then to all be roughly the same effectiveness regardless of the actual advancement of the nation. This is because these two tiers have access to the same group of weapon etc, and are not allowed to create new products, so it makes sense that two nations with the same groups will have the same TE.

Third World nations have a TE of 0.8, and Modern have one of 1. These are deviations from the formula as they emphasize that, yeah, your troops / weapons etc, are quite a bit worse than the standard (for Third World)/ are the standard (for Modern)

IE: 1) Three nations are trying to accomplish a task. One Third World nation, one Modern, one First World (2000 tech), with TE's of 0.8, 1, 1.2 respectively. Since TE represents a measure of relative effectiveness, the Modern Nation will have to put in a 1x effort, as it is the standard. However, the Third World nation only achieves 0.8 of the effect for the same effort, so will have to put in 1.25x the effort of the Modern Nation. Whereas the First World nation achieves 1.2 of the effect for the same effort, so only has to put in 0.83x the effort of the modern nation. This "effort" could be the number of shots needed to kill something, or really anything you can imagine.

2) First World Nation A fights First World Nation B. Nation A has 3000 tech, Nation B has 2000. Hence, nation A has a TE of 1.3, nation B of 1.2. So nation A's troops etc are 1.3/1.2 = 1.08 =8% better than nation B's. This is because TE is measure relative to Modern, so to compare two TE's directly, calculate TE_A/TE_B to find the Technological Effectiveness of A relative to B

So, in theory, in the case of two people that are rping equally, and both people have some good tactics, and one of them is not just going, "LOL, 100,000 paratroopers on your capital!", this scale will be used, but no more will people say, "I have better tech, you lose." Well, if a First world is invading a third world, the case is different, the tech difference will matter a lot.

Technological Trade.

The old 'tech share' is being scrapped. No longer shall nations have their entire advancement lifted by a few words on a treaty. Now, you can buy weapons / items from more advanced nations. However, this comes with a cost. For Modern and Third World nations, these advanced items will cost more than what your normal domestic ones would. Since economy is gone from CNRP, we have a simple formula to determine what you could have.

It is based on TE. We assume cost is directly proportional to TE. So, when buying a Item, here is how many you can afford.

#Advanced Items =#Buyer Items IG* (Buyer TE / Seller TE)

EXAMPLE

If you can have say, 1000 tanks IG at a TE of 1 (Ie you are a Modern nation) and you buy tanks from a First World nation with a TE of 1.3, you can have 1/1.3 * 1000 tanks = ~770 tanks.

Comments please.

Edited May 8, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Spock]

To add on to this, no permanent space-based weapons (other than specifically for an SDI wonder that you own in-game, in which case it can only be used as a SDI and only over your borders).

Question: wasn't the United States of America planning to build some sort of plane with a friggen' laser beam attached to its head? Lasers are banned in CNRP, right?

[LeVentNoir]

To add on to this, no permanent space-based weapons (other than specifically for an SDI wonder that you own in-game, in which case it can only be used as a SDI and only over your borders).

Question: wasn't the United States of America planning to build some sort of plane with a friggen' laser beam attached to its head? Lasers are banned in CNRP, right?

On the first point, that would be edited into the G-RP-G's, as it does not pertain to the tech tiers, but to the game at large. And secondly lasers are not banned. They are restricted to RL applications.

Secondly, it was made, but returned to RnD, meaning only First World nations can use it, and only against the sort of targets it is meant for. (Side on kills of theatre ballistic missiles via stress kill induced by thermal weakening of the missile skin through laser heating.)

[Spock]

I'll pretend to know what that means.

Good job, gentlemen.

[Manetheren]

Excellent LVN, I totally support it, mostly because it means we can have fair fights based on things other than "Woot, more techz I win" and also it makes godmodding much more difficult

[karthikking]

I love this idea. Now longer will a guy with 1200 tech but only like 800 infra have an advantage over me.

[LeVentNoir]

I love this idea. Now longer will a guy with 1200 tech but only like 800 infra have an advantage over me.

This is for CNRP only.

[Sargun II]

I love this idea. Now longer will a guy with 1200 tech but only like 800 infra have an advantage over me.

This is for CNRP only.

derp

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Excellent LVN, I totally support it, mostly because it means we can have fair fights based on things other than "Woot, more techz I win" and also it makes godmodding much more difficult

It doesn't make godmodding more difficult, I could still say "My super laser explodes your country from space!" This just makes god mods more evident, and obvious.

[Subtleknifewielder]

On the first point, that would be edited into the G-RP-G's, as it does not pertain to the tech tiers, but to the game at large. And secondly lasers are not banned. They are restricted to RL applications.

Secondly, it was made, but returned to RnD, meaning only First World nations can use it, and only against the sort of targets it is meant for. (Side on kills of theatre ballistic missiles via stress kill induced by thermal weakening of the missile skin through laser heating.)

I'll pretend to know what that means.

Good job, gentlemen.

It means it basically kills targets by overheating them, not like the lasers you think of in science fiction.

[Shadowsage]

A very good advancement; levels the playing-field.

[Markus Wilding]

A+, LVN. Very good job.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

I like the grandfathered in idea, however, I don't like how only the top people can design stuff. My country has designed and built its own weapons since I started here. You don't need to be an ultramodern country to design stuff, you just need to be an ultramodern country to design stuff that doesn't blow up half the time you use it. Countries like Serbia and China design their own weapons and aren't considered the "First World."

[Il Terra Di Agea]

I like the grandfathered in idea, however, I don't like how only the top people can design stuff. My country has designed and built its own weapons since I started here. You don't need to be an ultramodern country to design stuff, you just need to be an ultramodern country to design stuff that doesn't blow up half the time you use it. Countries like Serbia and China design their own weapons and aren't considered the "First World."

No, it's the people who design their own stuff (IE in sketchup, sketches, etc) who fall into a tech gray area. Anyone can design and manufacture what they want if they have the urge to (Within reason and the rules)