New, Easier, and More Realistic Tech Scale <CNRP>

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

No, it's the people who design their own stuff (IE in sketchup, sketches, etc) who fall into a tech gray area. Anyone can design and manufacture what they want if they have the urge to (Within reason and the rules)

I'm a tad bit confused. The thingy said that unless you were the top level, you could only buy blueprints. If that rule went away, I'm fine with it.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

I'm a tad bit confused. The thingy said that unless you were the top level, you could only buy blueprints. If that rule went away, I'm fine with it.

You know, now that I've re-read it, I am also a bit confused. Forcing people to buy anything that doesn't exist IRL seems like it would really put a damper on some things people do, and seems like a stupid rule to add. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I would propose that anyone can design their own stuff as long as it still falls into the range of possibility, and doesn't get too crazy, at least without some extensive R&D RP.

[LeVentNoir]

You know, now that I've re-read it, I am also a bit confused. Forcing people to buy anything that doesn't exist IRL seems like it would really put a damper on some things people do, and seems like a stupid rule to add. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I would propose that anyone can design their own stuff as long as it still falls into the range of possibility, and doesn't get too crazy, at least without some extensive R&D RP.

Thats the point. Second tier nations RL DON"T design their own weapons. They buy them off the top 5 weapons manufacturers, China, Russia, US, UK and someone else.

So, if you want your own unique deisgn, give it to a first world nation, they will do the details, then sell you the blueprints / finished product etc.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Thats the point. Second tier nations RL DON"T design their own weapons. They buy them off the top 5 weapons manufacturers, China, Russia, US, UK and someone else.

So, if you want your own unique deisgn, give it to a first world nation, they will do the details, then sell you the blueprints / finished product etc.

I can deal with that. I'm assuming that already-designed weapons don't need to be re-designed, so those are grandfathered in. We should probably make a list of the top tier nations just to make things easier for us. Also, the 5th country is probably a tie between Israel, France and Germany, however, there are smaller weapons manufacturers in countries like Brazil, Indonesia, Serbia, Poland, and Sweden.

[Subtleknifewielder]

I can deal with that. I'm assuming that already-designed weapons don't need to be re-designed, so those are grandfathered in. We should probably make a list of the top tier nations just to make things easier for us. Also, the 5th country is probably a tie between Israel, France and Germany, however, there are smaller weapons manufacturers in countries like Brazil, Indonesia, Serbia, Poland, and Sweden.

About the grandfathering, you would be correct. As for the list, it's not a bad idea...

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Thats the point. Second tier nations RL DON"T design their own weapons. They buy them off the top 5 weapons manufacturers, China, Russia, US, UK and someone else.

So, if you want your own unique deisgn, give it to a first world nation, they will do the details, then sell you the blueprints / finished product etc.

I can think of many exceptions, especially if we are being realistic.

Right now, a lot of European countries (Italy definitely comes to mind), Israel, and a handful of other less than super powered countries build and design at least some of their own military tech, and then if you factor in the fact that the political climate of CNRP is incredibly unstable, and a nation you rely on could, at any time, fall into war or fall into complete anarchy, so, much like in WWI and the times around it, everyone would be making their own equipment just to make sure they can keep getting it, and ensure that they get the real, good thing. The rest of the rules are great, but that one is incredibly unrealistic, and favoring the higher tech nations by letting only them create original tech.

[GTTofAK]

edit

Edited May 9, 2009 by GTTofAK

[Subtleknifewielder]

I've been working on something along these lines as the lack of any diminishing returns for tech is almost boarder line game breaking at this point in time. I've been working on a polynomial that would reduce tech after passing about 3k and then allow for returns to come back in a near linear fashion after 10k although greatly reduced. I'm not done yet but I have compared tech with infrastructure and the numbers are staggering. Looking at the diminishing returns on infrastructure for a newish nation with full trades it will take about 2-3 days for them to pay off the cost of a single unit of infrastructure. For a nation over 15k its well over a year. Tech on the other hand is purely linier. Your latest tech deal benefits you just as much as your first one did. Something needs to be done to bring some diminishing returns to tech so it comes somewhat in line with infrastructure and land.

Sorry, but this doesn't have anything to do with how everything works ingame. This is purely for CNRP (cybernations Role-play.)

[Sargun II]

/me PMs mod telling them to change the title to <CNRP>

[Subtleknifewielder]

/me PMs mod telling them to change the title to <CNRP>

Thank you.

[LeVentNoir]

I can think of many exceptions, especially if we are being realistic.

Right now, a lot of European countries (Italy definitely comes to mind), Israel, and a handful of other less than super powered countries build and design at least some of their own military tech, and then if you factor in the fact that the political climate of CNRP is incredibly unstable, and a nation you rely on could, at any time, fall into war or fall into complete anarchy, so, much like in WWI and the times around it, everyone would be making their own equipment just to make sure they can keep getting it, and ensure that they get the real, good thing. The rest of the rules are great, but that one is incredibly unrealistic, and favoring the higher tech nations by letting only them create original tech.

The bold is taken into account that people can use already designed RL tech, and as such they can build and use it with no help needed. Next how many people below 1500 tech actually create things? Answer one or two. I am not in favour of opening up this area to such abuse, and the final damning nail is that no matter what you use, your Third World TE=0.8, your Modern TE=1. There is no advantage to be gained in anyway be making your own things.

Edited May 9, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Il Terra Di Agea]

The bold is taken into account that people can use already designed RL tech, and as such they can build and use it with no help needed. Next how many people below 1500 tech actually create things? Answer one or two. I am not in favour of opening up this area to such abuse,

The "abuse" of people rping research and development of their technology, or the "abuse" where people put work and time in to make the RP more creative?

and the final damning nail is that no matter what you use, your Third World TE=0.8, your Modern TE=1. There is no advantage to be gained in anyway be making your own things. Infact, there is no advantage anywhere to creating your own technology.

So, if there is absolutely no advantage, why are you making rules agaisnt it?

[Subtleknifewielder]

So, if there is absolutely no advantage, why are you making rules agaisnt it?

Now that...is a good question. Perhaps because the quality of Rp'ing will be taken into account in wars as well.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Now that...is a good question. Perhaps because the quality of Rp'ing will be taken into account in wars as well.

That then goes back to my previous sentiment that working to make something and doing some rp behind it is better than just saying "I haz tank!"

(Note: But even I go for the "I haz [Military device]!" Sometimes, because it is a ton of work to design everything.)

[LeVentNoir]

So, if there is absolutely no advantage, why are you making rules agaisnt it?

To maintain the difference in feel between the tiers. Basically, an African nation for Third World, then a nation like New Zealand or one of the former east europe countries or SE asia for Modern, and finally West Europe / USA etc for First world.

Remember, 4272 of 29853 nations have more than 1500 tech. Or 14%. RL I doubt more than 14% of nations design any of their own military.

[Sargun II]

If we can get a first world nation to make it for us, what's the point? There's no advantage to using them until you pass a tech barrier and you can already do it through first-world nations, so why put a whole process into it? Just let us make our own !@#$ at whatever tech level, but keep the normal formula. Forcing me to RP differently because you think it disrupts how the world should feel is laughable.

I'll use the tech scale, I'll use my own stuff.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

To maintain the difference in feel between the tiers. Basically, an African nation for Third World, then a nation like New Zealand or one of the former east europe countries or SE asia for Modern, and finally West Europe / USA etc for First world.

Remember, 4272 of 29853 nations have more than 1500 tech. Or 14%. RL I doubt more than 14% of nations design any of their own military.

The number of nations in game means nothing, it's a completely random fact that means nothing to the argument.

This all reminds me of something I said a while ago:

Nothing agaisnt you/ him, but LVN is... how to phrase this without flaming... imposing and forceful, while also being disagreeable and intrusive. He has minimal ability to compromise, and often tries to force rules on the community that would be detrimental to everyone below his NS/ tech.

Stop making up reasons to pretend you're winning the argument please, it's annoying, and frankly, furthers my opinion that you should not be a GM.

If we can get a first world nation to make it for us, what's the point? There's no advantage to using them until you pass a tech barrier and you can already do it through first-world nations, so why put a whole process into it? Just let us make our own !@#$ at whatever tech level, but keep the normal formula. Forcing me to RP differently because you think it disrupts how the world should feel is laughable.

I'll use the tech scale, I'll use my own stuff.

Seconded.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Il Terra Di Agea

[JerreyRough]

If we can get a first world nation to make it for us, what's the point? There's no advantage to using them until you pass a tech barrier and you can already do it through first-world nations, so why put a whole process into it? Just let us make our own !@#$ at whatever tech level, but keep the normal formula. Forcing me to RP differently because you think it disrupts how the world should feel is laughable.

I'll use the tech scale, I'll use my own stuff.

Thirded.

This ain't real life.

[LeVentNoir]

Whatever.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Whatever.

LVN, this is a proposed solution, and we will NOT be imposing it on the community if too many voice dissent and give good reasons it shouldn't be implimented.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[LeVentNoir]

LVN, this is a proposed solution, and we will NOT be imposing it on the community if too many voice dissent and give good reasons it shouldn't be implimented.

Its called giving in to the community.

[JerreyRough]

If a large number of people are going for Sargun's side suddenly as a result, then a "final" vote should be made; one option being this, one being the suggested one, one being neither, and one being abstain.

But don't do it yet. We only got 3 people's (including myself) so far in opinion of it.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Its called giving in to the community.

it's called we were appointed to enforce the rules, not impose our own if the community doesn't want them.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I have a major objection to this vote in that I've heard numerous statements on what "modern" would be. I would prefer we stick to a scale that doesn't float on a whimsy and I prefer math be the unbiased arbiter of that scale. I voted yes, then suddenly the definition of modern floated to 1000 to 1500, thi sis not enforcing the will of the community, it is manipulating it. I wish heartily I could change my vote back to no.

I will use the old, completely unbiased scale that everyone had already adopted and was living by, until forced to take another.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

I have a major objection to this vote in that I've heard numerous statements on what "modern" would be. I would prefer we stick to a scale that doesn't float on a whimsy and I prefer math be the unbiased arbiter of that scale. I voted yes, then suddenly the definition of modern floated to 1000 to 1500, thi sis not enforcing the will of the community, it is manipulating it. I wish heartily I could change my vote back to no.

I will use the old, completely unbiased scale that everyone had already adopted and was living by, until forced to take another.

There is no bias here. Modern is quite well defined, and will not be changing.

And we are asking for the community to comment on the proposal as outlined above. So, do you have any comments?