Congrats to Sparta

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Being proud of gang banging alliances at the top and "ascending" isn't an accomplishment. In fact, this is probably the only way you guys would've been able to be no. 1.

Those others have already said it, so will I. This is how NPO has gotten to power as well as most of their allies including TPF. The argument just doesn't work in this scenario old friend.

[Ejayrazz]

I do know that at least some of the alliances who left Continuum recently were already unhappy with the direction the bloc was taking MONTHS ago. The Grämlins were the first to leave, but they weren't the only ones who felt that way even then. Q has always been a house united against itself in many ways.

We left because we aren't slow. We no longer agreed with some choices and conduct, our way of playing the game is much different than many of those in Continuum, though some seem to be changing recently. It was nothing against them, but moreso of saying "Hey, you can play the game you wish to play it, but we will play it how we choose to as well, which differs from yours and doesn't help Q as a bloc".

Continuum was a melting pot; alliances had different views and like Legion..Anything formed merely because of strategical purposes rather than friendship itself will eventually fail and lead itself into a dumpster.

[KingSuck]

Sparta, quit BSing us. You knew exactly how the sides would potentially line up. You knew that you would most likely be on the winning side. You guys aren't exactly known as big dice rollers. You just started flopping a bit early, so you could avoid some of this conjecture. You guys didn't leave Q until you were fully sure that you would be protected and had multiple assurances.

It can be seen that you guys just used Q as a house for protection, because in the same thread that you announced your withdrawal from Q, your friendly Ephor of Foreign Affairs, George the Great was already insulting the Continuum. IN THE SAME THREAD AS YOUR LEAVING THE CONTINUUM!!! Funny how opinions change so quick, eh?

traitors are the only thing worse than cowards

basically these ^

Ephialtes anyone?

[Heft]

Congratulations on your accomplishment and stuff, but you guys really can't sit tehre and act like leaving Q was a brave decision or anything like that, or like the side you're currently on didn't have a sizable and clear advantage by the time you finally firmly planted your foot down. Maybe you really do believe in the "cause" you're part of now, maybe you really do believe that the NPO and Q and the Hegemony are bad and need to be brought down, but the clear and plain fact is that you took no action to do so until it was clear that such action was almost assuredly safe. Worse than that, though, you apparently thought many of these things for a long time, which would mean that you were enjoying the protection and power given to you as a member of Q and as a member of that Hegemony even as you believed it to be wrong and bad. There are plenty of examples of two-faced allies and hypocrisy floating about nowadays, so much so that it's hardly worth pointing it out anymore, but your actions are at the top.

[mykep]

George, you realize TPF never supported EZI?

False.

If so, didn't you have an MADP with them? Shouldn't you know that more than anyone? Guess not. They barely even support ZI rather preferring to give one week of war similiarily to how NSO does it.

So the NoV thing, and FAN thing, and BAPS thing were all all just made up, huh?

They offered me protection when Ragnarok wanted to put me on ZI, apparently I didn't make that abundantly clear either. I never claimed I was full of "honor" but make no mistake I am very loyal.

Being loyal is being honourable to a cause. You are very honourable.

Being disrespected by everyone including my "own side" it was nice to see someone stick up for me no matter how unlikely the source was.

In upcoming months to war, everyone looks to round up the pigs for slaughter. Meatshields, thats all it is. Misguidedness with a side of misconception. Truly, you may be the only preson blessed by TPFs grace, but thats just it...you are the only one it seems.

To me, that's true friendship. If I wanted to say alive I wouldn't be defending TPF and TSI to ZI like I am right now. Can't say you'd do the same, perhaps when the time comes you can prove me wrong. I think I've already done it twice...

Should look into the friendship between Athens and Sparta...something quite special. I have a new level of respect for Sparta, even if they are quiet ones in the top 12.

I'll also take this time to bow out of this thread. I ask no one reply to me to avoid further derailment but that won't happen so whatever.

AUT you are a great man and an even better soldier. I hope when this all passes, you find yourself in a position of making the better choices. Look for what TPF has solely done for you, and i hope you do the same for everyone.

o/ Sparta

[Duncan King]

I actually agree with Heft in regards to TOP, MHA, and Gremlins. I don't think they're overly brave or fearsome or even honorable. I think they're cowards. I don't believe that honor has anything to do with what these alliances do. Rather, I believe that the main denominator is their precious statisics. None of these three alliances did anything in this war until it was obvious that their precious stats would not be harmed. Heck, Gre even broke its precious codex to get in the war.

Let's take MHA for example. They had similar amounts of treaties on both sides. Instead of staying out of the war or actually honoring their treaties, MHA made a statement specifically saying which treaties they would not honor. Too bad NPO, that super MDoAP you signed doesn't matter. Tough luck, NATO, the longstanding MADP through Trident and the unilateral MDP don't matter. MHA has principles and those principles are too important for them to come to your aid. Even worse, MHA made a post saying which treaties they would honor. To me, this was an unheard of level of cowardice and treachery. If you're not going to honor the treaty, then cancel it. Don't make a post falsely claiming honor while stating which alliances you're throwin under the bus. If you're not going to honor your treaty, then cancel it. At least if you cancel it, your word actually means something.

I do have to give Sparta a shoutout for having the guts to take a side and make it clear. We knew where you stood and that, at least, showed courage. They made their decision clear and stuck with it. The same could be said about Umbrella and FCC. However, it could not be said about TOP and Gremlins. Both of these alliances are bound to Old Guard by Citadel and by unilateral MDPs. But when OG was attacked, they did nothing. For a while it looked to be even, but when it looked like Karma had an advantage, those two alliances entered on their side. One of my fellow gov members said that TOP would side with the bigger side to save their stats. He was right.

So yes, I agree with Heft's post and congrats to TOP for being skilled opportunists.

[Geiseric]

It can be seen that you guys just used Q as a house for protection, because in the same thread that you announced your withdrawal from Q, your friendly Ephor of Foreign Affairs, George the Great was already insulting the Continuum. IN THE SAME THREAD AS YOUR LEAVING THE CONTINUUM!!! Funny how opinions change so quick, eh?

In the house of the rich man, there's no place else to spit,... but on his face. I believe GtG's "insults" were appropriate at that time and was warranted. Even if they're perceived as one. Point me in one direct intervention where Sparta is saved from utter destruction because of Q's intervention please. Protection? Oh please, we aren't even considered as a serious alliance, we don't have that much enemies that does pose a serious threat.

Meh, then again traitors and heroes are just labels given by the ones who wrote history which happen to be the victor's side.

[Heft]

Duncan: I don't really see much wrong with how TOP handled things. It's clear they didn't really want this conflict, or really approve of the actions of anyone involved. I will agree with you about MHA's thread, though, that was just bad in a variety of ways, and a terrible decision.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Heft

[Ejayrazz]

I actually agree with Heft in regards to TOP, MHA, and Gremlins. I don't think they're overly brave or fearsome or even honorable. I think they're cowards. I don't believe that honor has anything to do with what these alliances do. Rather, I believe that the main denominator is their precious statisics. None of these three alliances did anything in this war until it was obvious that their precious stats would not be harmed. Heck, Gre even broke its precious codex to get in the war.

Let's take MHA for example. They had similar amounts of treaties on both sides. Instead of staying out of the war or actually honoring their treaties, MHA made a statement specifically saying which treaties they would not honor. Too bad NPO, that super MDoAP you signed doesn't matter. Tough luck, NATO, the longstanding MADP through Trident and the unilateral MDP don't matter. MHA has principles and those principles are too important for them to come to your aid. Even worse, MHA made a post saying which treaties they would honor. To me, this was an unheard of level of cowardice and treachery. If you're not going to honor the treaty, then cancel it. Don't make a post falsely claiming honor while stating which alliances you're throwin under the bus. If you're not going to honor your treaty, then cancel it. At least if you cancel it, your word actually means something.

I do have to give Sparta a shoutout for having the guts to take a side and make it clear. We knew where you stood and that, at least, showed courage. They made their decision clear and stuck with it. The same could be said about Umbrella and FCC. However, it could not be said about TOP and Gremlins. Both of these alliances are bound to Old Guard by Citadel and by unilateral MDPs. But when OG was attacked, they did nothing. For a while it looked to be even, but when it looked like Karma had an advantage, those two alliances entered on their side. One of my fellow gov members said that TOP would side with the bigger side to save their stats. He was right.

So yes, I agree with Heft's post and congrats to TOP for being skilled opportunists.

None of these three alliances did anything in this war until it was obvious that their precious stats would not be harmed. Heck, Gre even broke its precious codex to get in the war.

Wrong on so many levels, never thought I would see jab shots with illogical measures coming from you. We are STILL fighting IRON and it is STILL a good war on the upper levels. Look at our stats, we are involved in wars with higher nations, a simple nuke can take thousands of NS away. We are kicking $@!, but we are still taking damage. Yeah, we're cowards because we are helping FARK. Gremlins were in from the beginning and we are fighting an alliance doing pretty damn well, you're actually insulting IRON's warring capabilities. Try the whole "Gremlins is being dishonorable" rant, but it isn't going to get you anywhere.

And I suggest you taking a look another look at our Codex dear, we haven't violated anything.

As for entering their side...Our member is in charge of Karma's military planning. We have been there, we didn't join as opportunists. We were there when we thought we were going to lose a few days before the conflict took off. Nice try mate.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[DougZ37]

who cares, we are not in this war for number one spot, we are here to support our friends, once NPO stop hiding in peace mode we will then really see what happens.

Quick as in how fast you was to cancel on NPO then to change your mind.

so lets see what goes down

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=29470

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=84186

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=5394

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=90642

Theres an interesting sample size for you. NPO has 4 100k NS nations come out of peace mode 3-4 days ago (making them the 4 strongest for NPO in the war), more than half of the wars their in are aggressive ones declared by NPO, and you'll notice not a single Sparta nation on any of them (despite the fact that 40% of the nations 100k NS plus in alliances at war with NPO are in Sparta).

[youwish959]

In the house of the rich man, there's no place else to spit,... but on his face. I believe GtG's "insults" were appropriate at that time and was warranted. Even if they're perceived as one. Point me in one direct intervention where Sparta is saved from utter destruction because of Q's intervention please. Protection? Oh please, we aren't even considered as a serious alliance, we don't have that much enemies that does pose a serious threat.

Meh, then again traitors and heroes are just labels given by the ones who wrote history which happen to be the victor's side.

War of the Coalition

[Azrael Alexander]

Duncan: I don't really see much wrong with how TOP handled things. It's clear they didn't really want this conflict, or really approve of the actions of anyone involved. I will agree with you about MHA's thread, though, that was just bad in a variety of ways, and a terrible decision.

How was what top did any different with that the MHA did? It should have been very clear to our allies that we did not want this conflict? The only mistake we made was we really did not need to join in the fight with IRON but it was at the request of the Grämlins.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Shamshir

[scutterbug]

I actually agree with Heft in regards to TOP, MHA, and Gremlins. I don't think they're overly brave or fearsome or even honorable. I think they're cowards. I don't believe that honor has anything to do with what these alliances do. Rather, I believe that the main denominator is their precious statisics. None of these three alliances did anything in this war until it was obvious that their precious stats would not be harmed. Heck, Gre even broke its precious codex to get in the war.

Let's take MHA for example. They had similar amounts of treaties on both sides. Instead of staying out of the war or actually honoring their treaties, MHA made a statement specifically saying which treaties they would not honor. Too bad NPO, that super MDoAP you signed doesn't matter. Tough luck, NATO, the longstanding MADP through Trident and the unilateral MDP don't matter. MHA has principles and those principles are too important for them to come to your aid. Even worse, MHA made a post saying which treaties they would honor. To me, this was an unheard of level of cowardice and treachery. If you're not going to honor the treaty, then cancel it. Don't make a post falsely claiming honor while stating which alliances you're throwin under the bus. If you're not going to honor your treaty, then cancel it. At least if you cancel it, your word actually means something.

I do have to give Sparta a shoutout for having the guts to take a side and make it clear. We knew where you stood and that, at least, showed courage. They made their decision clear and stuck with it. The same could be said about Umbrella and FCC. However, it could not be said about TOP and Gremlins. Both of these alliances are bound to Old Guard by Citadel and by unilateral MDPs. But when OG was attacked, they did nothing. For a while it looked to be even, but when it looked like Karma had an advantage, those two alliances entered on their side. One of my fellow gov members said that TOP would side with the bigger side to save their stats. He was right.

So yes, I agree with Heft's post and congrats to TOP for being skilled opportunists.

You quite frankly are talking out of your rear end.

We at MHA declared our neutrality with NPO as they caused the war. Our treaty with them had the O part ya know what that means optional. As NPO was the aggressor and ignored our warnings many times we did not support this war they still went ahead and declared. Following their decleration we distanced ourselves as we rightfully should have. Not once was a shed of honour lost.

We did what was the right thing to do and what still was the right thing to do. NPO shot themselves in the foot over this whole war distancing its allies and ignoring them. Now they are paying the price. Maybe they will learn from this, that next time they should stick with their friends. Then they wouldnt get screwed over. (that part is my view not MHA's view). We are not considering cancelling our treaty with the NPO as we believe bridges can be made again once this war blows over and relations can be settled once more.

Yes the MHA has principles and its those principles that keep us an honourable alliance, one of the few left in the game.

Regards,

ScutterBug,

Minister of Hitchhikers

Edit: Oh the irony. Zenith already peaced out when we at MHA are still fighting. Wheres the honour there fleeing the battlefield to save yourselfs?

Edit 2 regarding NATO.

NATO entered the war without even considering us or FARK so trident was immedietly under pressure. Thus with them breaking it we were never going to support them. NATO were well aware of what they were doing and what side they were on and where we stood. Neither us nor NATO hold any ill will towards each other and we continue to be tied together dispite this conflict.

Edited May 4, 2009 by scutterbug

[Azrael Alexander]

I actually agree with Heft in regards to TOP, MHA, and Gremlins. I don't think they're overly brave or fearsome or even honorable. I think they're cowards. I don't believe that honor has anything to do with what these alliances do. Rather, I believe that the main denominator is their precious statisics. None of these three alliances did anything in this war until it was obvious that their precious stats would not be harmed. Heck, Gre even broke its precious codex to get in the war.

We did nothing? DK i respect but if you think for a moment the MHA was not trying to stop this war from happening then its evident you don't know us. I mean come on you know WCR better than that.

Let's take MHA for example. They had similar amounts of treaties on both sides. Instead of staying out of the war or actually honoring their treaties, MHA made a statement specifically saying which treaties they would not honor. Too bad NPO, that super MDoAP you signed doesn't matter. Tough luck, NATO, the longstanding MADP through Trident and the unilateral MDP don't matter. MHA has principles and those principles are too important for them to come to your aid. Even worse, MHA made a post saying which treaties they would honor. To me, this was an unheard of level of cowardice and treachery. If you're not going to honor the treaty, then cancel it. Don't make a post falsely claiming honor while stating which alliances you're throwin under the bus. If you're not going to honor your treaty, then cancel it. At least if you cancel it, your word actually means something.

God this had been explained how many times DK, the pacifcan aggressive war negated defensive clause. It's and MDoAP not an MDAP. On to the NATO-MHA MDAP via trident. Trident needs to vote for the MDAP to come into effect. No vote was taken or requested by nato. Yeah MHA has principles and we will stick to them and we hope our allies would keep to the word of our treaties. As for why we have not cancelled we don't drop friends and we are not going to throw years of friendship away for a few mistakes. Who do you think will be their for them to pick up the pieces? We will and only after we have helped them back onto their feet will we even consider dropping treaties.

[Bob Janova]

However, it could not be said about TOP and Gremlins. Both of these alliances are bound to Old Guard by Citadel and by unilateral MDPs.

Citadel and those MDPs are non-chaining and OG entered under an MDP of its own. Nice try though.

[Ada069]

I actually agree with Heft in regards to TOP, MHA, and Gremlins. I don't think they're overly brave or fearsome or even honorable. I think they're cowards. I don't believe that honor has anything to do with what these alliances do. Rather, I believe that the main denominator is their precious statisics. None of these three alliances did anything in this war until it was obvious that their precious stats would not be harmed. Heck, Gre even broke its precious codex to get in the war.

Let's take MHA for example. They had similar amounts of treaties on both sides. Instead of staying out of the war or actually honoring their treaties, MHA made a statement specifically saying which treaties they would not honor. Too bad NPO, that super MDoAP you signed doesn't matter. Tough luck, NATO, the longstanding MADP through Trident and the unilateral MDP don't matter. MHA has principles and those principles are too important for them to come to your aid. Even worse, MHA made a post saying which treaties they would honor. To me, this was an unheard of level of cowardice and treachery. If you're not going to honor the treaty, then cancel it. Don't make a post falsely claiming honor while stating which alliances you're throwin under the bus. If you're not going to honor your treaty, then cancel it. At least if you cancel it, your word actually means something.

I do have to give Sparta a shoutout for having the guts to take a side and make it clear. We knew where you stood and that, at least, showed courage. They made their decision clear and stuck with it. The same could be said about Umbrella and FCC. However, it could not be said about TOP and Gremlins. Both of these alliances are bound to Old Guard by Citadel and by unilateral MDPs. But when OG was attacked, they did nothing. For a while it looked to be even, but when it looked like Karma had an advantage, those two alliances entered on their side. One of my fellow gov members said that TOP would side with the bigger side to save their stats. He was right.

So yes, I agree with Heft's post and congrats to TOP for being skilled opportunists.

Considering NPO and Old Guard both failed in there Obligation of Aggressive wars.

that to me alone is a symbol of how much NPO and Old Guard care about these treaties when they fail to even mention there going to war first.

Then have the balls to turn around and say MHA and the rest of Citadel is in the wrong for not Honouring the D. when they cant honor the A.

MHA honored its Treaty of Harmlins. Why should You as a Zenith Member tell them what treaties are honorable to them. NPO entered this war on the Aggression. not the Defense. Ordo Verde is the ONLY Alliance in this war to have entered on the Defensive. because there the only alliance who hasnt needed to write out a declaration of war.

Edit

I do have something about the alliance Entering Late, Its Called Tactics. Stop being a tool (not the alliance, but an actual tool)

Edited May 4, 2009 by Ada069

[Mogar]

Citadel and those MDPs are non-chaining and OG entered under an MDP of its own. Nice try though.

I actually have alot of respect for Citadel because of their actions in this war, every alliance has attempted to follow their treaties as best as possible, although I have a feeling OG is out of the group soon.

[Haflinger]

Is it not clear that we did not want this conflict?

No, it is not.

MHA stated that their treaty with Grämlins pre-empts all other treaty obligations.

Grämlins were involved in the planning of this war at the top of the coalition leadership.

Was MHA unaware of Grämlins planning a war against their allies?

[Shinpah]

War of the Coalition

Are you referring to the part in the War of the Coalition where Sparta was jumped by 10 alliances and then pleaded for assistance from Q, or the part of that war where Sparta came into the war of their own accord via treaties and such and kept Greenland Republic (as I recall) busy so that Valhalla and GGA (as I recall) could fight off those attacking them.

One of those scenarios is correct, one of them involves Q helping Sparta and one of them the other way around. Try and figure it out

Edited May 4, 2009 by Shinpah

[Geiseric]

War of the Coalition

From who? GR? Really? Lawlz. And let's be honest, we didn't start it either

To say that tC isn't beneficial at all to Sparta is a lie tbh, but to say that Sparta needed it for the protection is pure hokum.

[Andrewbw]

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=29470

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=84186

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=5394

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=90642

Theres an interesting sample size for you. NPO has 4 100k NS nations come out of peace mode 3-4 days ago (making them the 4 strongest for NPO in the war), more than half of the wars their in are aggressive ones declared by NPO, and you'll notice not a single Sparta nation on any of them (despite the fact that 40% of the nations 100k NS plus in alliances at war with NPO are in Sparta).

And you've never had people unwilling to fight or people that only come on CN once every couple of days?

[Azrael Alexander]

No, it is not.

MHA stated that their treaty with Grämlins pre-empts all other treaty obligations.

Grämlins were involved in the planning of this war at the top of the coalition leadership.

Was MHA unaware of Grämlins planning a war against their allies?

My apologises edited op with correct spelling

MHA is Gre so it's not really a treaty obligation

[Kevin Cash]

Notice the "mutual" in Mutual Defense Pact also implies that both signatories are informed and generally agree upon a military action beforehand. There is a line stating if either signatory violates terms, the treaty is dissolved immediately. Treaties of that magnitude are signed in good faith that one will not behave recklessly and unnecessarily while expecting the other to drop everything they stand for. We also didn't attack until after the cancellation period expired, so I don't see how that is dishonorable.

the only legitimate reason to declare on an ally is if they were actively and obviously planning to harm your alliance. you are traitors, 'bawww they didnt tell us about the war' is not a valid reason to not only throw your defense obligations out the window but later directly attack your so called 'ally.' i will agree that you did not have to uphold the aggression end of the treaty but thats it.

the whole 'treaties dont chain' idea is just a convenient excuse for people to not honor their word, and i call !@#$%^&* on it. when you sign a treaty, its not for show, its your word, and sparta among others has demonstrated that their word is utterly worthless

[Mogar]

And you've never had people unwilling to fight or people that only come on CN once every couple of days?

as your alliance's MoD, I wouldn't be publicly stating your big nations don't want to fight or are inactive.

[Joe Kremlin]

I think IRON will bounce back quickly if they get peace anytime soon. It doesn't look like anyone is interested in giving NPO decent/any peace, though. They're dropping at about 500k a day so TOP and Sparta will pass them in a few days. Sparta seems to be losing much less NS than the other major alliances so #1 should be theirs by the time NPO drops below them.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Joe Kremlin