My take on the current conflict....

[Master Vandar]

Seems to be the fun thing to do to post opinions about this conflict.

Lets be realistic, this war had to happen. The funny thing is, 95% of all of those on Karmas side in this war, can be found at one time or another to have hailed Pacifica for her past actions, at points in time where Pacificas actions benefitted them in some way, shape, or form. We are all sort of hypocrites in that respect. The sooner we all admit that, the sooner we can fight a fun war and make it all about blowing things up, and not about retribution or loyalty or honour.

To those who are saying Karma will become exactly what it is fighting NPO for, only time will tell. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No, Im not saying Karma will ever weild absolute power. But the context of the analogy applies. I am, however, pretty sure that no demands of viceroyship, thousands upon thousands of tech payments, or alliance disbandments will be a part of this war. Nor will Eternal ZI, Perma ZI or Eternal War. In those respects, Karma will have immediately exceded the goal of being "different than the Hegemony."

From a personal standpoint, I am glad to see NPO taking a beatdown, Not because of anything they have personally done for me, but because on some level, everyone wants the top spot. And the only way to achieve the top spot, is to take down those currently residing in the top spot.

On a brighter note, Echelon, RDD and GGA are taking a beatdown. And this makes me personally happy due to personal grudges I hold against them.

If anyone actually takes the time to read this, thank you, and Im sorry for wasting your time.

Edited for spelling...and probably will need it again.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Master Vandar

[Mogar]

well thanks for sharing.

[Ogaden]

You are being very optimistic about the 'Karma' coalition and post-war realities.

There are worse alliances than ours, and while some alliances are fighting to change the world for the better, some are also fighting to remove the primary competition.

To the former, I wish we didn't have to be destroyed in the process, and to the latter, you will get what you deserve.

Edited April 27, 2009 by James Dahl

[Master Vandar]

You are being very optimistic about the 'Karma' coalition and post-war realities.

There are worse alliances than ours, and while some alliances are fighting to change the world for the better, some are also fighting to remove the primary competition.

To the former, I wish we didn't have to be destroyed in the process, and to the latter, you will get what you deserve.

Actually, you make a very valid point, nobody has won anything yet, and for that I do apologize. I have been the witness of poor choices of assumptions, and will endeavour to not make that mistake.

[Tromp]

You are being very optimistic about the 'Karma' coalition and post-war realities.

There are worse alliances than ours, and while some alliances are fighting to change the world for the better, some are also fighting to remove the primary competition.

To the former, I wish we didn't have to be destroyed in the process, and to the latter, you will get what you deserve.

I think exactly that is happening now.

As for those speculations about the post-war world, I don't think it will ever be the same as before. At least that's what I want.

[Chief Savage Man]

Lets be realistic, this war had to happen. The funny thing is, 95% of all of those on Karmas side in this war, can be found at one time or another to have hailed Pacifica for her past actions, at points in time where Pacificas actions benefitted them in some way, shape, or form. We are all sort of hypocrites in that respect.

I haven't hailed Pacifica's actions since Great War Three. The picking off of WUT members (VE, FAN, CIS, etc.) after that eventually turned me against them and I haven't liked them ever since.

[Lord Brendan]

Lets be realistic, this war had to happen. The funny thing is, 95% of all of those on Karmas side in this war, can be found at one time or another to have hailed Pacifica for her past actions, at points in time where Pacificas actions benefitted them in some way, shape, or form. We are all sort of hypocrites in that respect. The sooner we all admit that, the sooner we can fight a fun war and make it all about blowing things up, and not about retribution or loyalty or honour.

I believe the Commonwealth has remained quite consistent in this respect.

Why, it's the one year anniversary of our last war... http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=21185

[Dochartaigh]

You are being very optimistic about the 'Karma' coalition and post-war realities.

There are worse alliances than ours, and while some alliances are fighting to change the world for the better, some are also fighting to remove the primary competition.

To the former, I wish we didn't have to be destroyed in the process, and to the latter, you will get what you deserve.

It is funny, i have seen this, or something similar, said several times by NPO. i am trying to figure out who on Karma's side is worse? Considering the past actions of NPO, i am having a hard time finding any alliance on Karma's side that is worse than ya'll. Yeah every alliance screws up and makes mistakes but NPO has consistently thrown their allies under a bus if it was necessary to ensure their reign at the top. They have little respect for any ally that shows any sort of independence to what NPO wants or says. This can be seen by the sheer amount of disrespect NPO has shown TOP before and during this war.

so yeah, please list the alliances that you think are worse than ya'll. I would love to hear it.

[Ogaden]

It is funny, i have seen this, or something similar, said several times by NPO. i am trying to figure out who on Karma's side is worse? Considering the past actions of NPO, i am having a hard time finding any alliance on Karma's side that is worse than ya'll. Yeah every alliance screws up and makes mistakes but NPO has consistently thrown their allies under a bus if it was necessary to ensure their reign at the top. They have little respect for any ally that shows any sort of independence to what NPO wants or says. This can be seen by the sheer amount of disrespect NPO has shown TOP before and during this war.

so yeah, please list the alliances that you think are worse than ya'll. I would love to hear it.

You cannot judge an alliance for what they do with little or no power. If we are destroyed, even if we change not at all and remain exactly the same alliance, we will seem like a much better alliance to you and others, simply because the situation is different.

The test of a man is how he acts when given power.

[Commisar Gaunt]

95% of all of those on Karmas side in this war, can be found at one time or another to have hailed Pacifica for her past actions, at points in time where Pacificas actions benefitted them in some way, shape, or form.

Yeah, I certainly hailed them when I was fighting them 5v1 when I was in MK in the last war. Oh oh, how about the Unjust War as well?

[raincoat]

You cannot judge an alliance for what they do with little or no power. If we are destroyed, even if we change not at all and remain exactly the same alliance, we will seem like a much better alliance to you and others, simply because the situation is different.

The test of a man is how he acts when given power.

If thats true, then how can you say an alliance is worse than the NPO. Remember, YOU claimed some alliances in Karma are worse than the NPO. Now you are saying its impossible to judge these alliances actions. Seems contradictory.

[Hyperbad]

The test of a man is how he acts when given power.

My curiosity has been piqued and I think not all of the thoughts behind your statements have come to be verbalized so I ask. If the test of one is how they act when given power, how is one to judge if others are worse or better?

[Captain Flinders]

You cannot judge an alliance for what they do with little or no power. If we are destroyed, even if we change not at all and remain exactly the same alliance, we will seem like a much better alliance to you and others, simply because the situation is different.

The test of a man is how he acts when given power.

He asked you to supply alliances that were as bad or worse than the NPO. Are you going to do that or were you just talking out if your $@!?

[Ogaden]

I'm not going to single anyone out, nor should I.

It is no longer our concern.

Edited April 27, 2009 by James Dahl

[Shadow Khan]

You're right, I definitely hailed them when I was in LUE while it was being destroyed....oh wait....Then I definitely hailed them when they provided the political atmosphere and backing for when NpO destroyed CIN....oh wait....Well then I definitely hailed them when they rolled "Their good friends" in ONOS and installed Ivan as Viceroy...wait no, still never hailed them.

In fact those hail fests were precisely the reason why I've rarely come to these boards.

[Dochartaigh]

I'm not going to single anyone out, nor should I.

It is no longer our concern.

so that was just your pathetic attempt at propaganda and spin. you were just basically talking out your $@! and i called you on it and now you have stated contradictory statements since. first you said there were alliances. then you said they are too small so you don't know. now you state again that there are alliances you know about.

which one is it cuz it cannot be all of them. so either man up and name names or man up and state that you know nothing and were just trying to smear Karma.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

I don't recall hailing them in the NAAC, or the OIN, or in GR.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Tolkien

[Ogaden]

so that was just your pathetic attempt at propaganda and spin. you were just basically talking out your $@! and i called you on it and now you have stated contradictory statements since. first you said there were alliances. then you said they are too small so you don't know. now you state again that there are alliances you know about.

which one is it cuz it cannot be all of them. so either man up and name names or man up and state that you know nothing and were just trying to smear Karma.

Not everyone cares about spinning everything into a positive or negative light, Dochartaigh.

For the record I have said no such thing, you have simply failed to comprehend my words, which are deliberately vague and unspecific because a: they deal with sweeping generalities and b: I have no interest in pissing off the alliances who will be holding the reigns of power relatively shortly.

[neneko]

I have to say I like that random statistics you put in there. I'm fairly sure that alot more than 5% of the people on the karma side never hailed npo.

I didn't in /b/, CIN or MK and I don't plan to do it in umbrella either.

Now I'm not saying I always hated npo. Back in /b/ we were trolled and threatened by most of npos allies but never by npo themselves (this was long before the gw). In CIN we were rolled by NpO currently allied with npo.

Back then I actually thought that npo were the best ones to be in power. Sure they were far from perfect but seeing how just their closest allies let the borrowed power go to their heads right away made me think that bob would be much worse with some other alliance in npos position of power.

After that however NPO lost their morals more and more. They started to threaten other alliances sovereignty. They stoped bonds betwen alliances by isolating links in treaty chains or even force people with the wrong ideas out of other alliances governments. NPO have grown old and paranoid with the years. It's time for a change. Not to another bloc since we would soon be in the same position in that case. The change to a bob with several polarities not just two sides. This wouldn't happend if karma was a bloc but karma isn't. Karma doesn't have signatories or written bloc treaties. When this war is over karma will not exist anymore. This is the only way we can see a real change on bob.

tl;dr it's just rambling don't read it

[Drai]

We'll have to see what the situation is like in two-three weeks before assuming anything.

[General Somoza]

I figure this is as good a place as any to voice my true feelings. I originally joined this world shortly after GW1. I intended to join one alliance and ended up in another. As luck would have it, we sided with LUE going into GW2. From one alliance to another one thing has remained constant, I've been on the other side of the NPO. (Except for a brief stint in Sparta). That simple reality has kept me from taking to this board and hailing much of anything that the NPO has done.

That said, I am not one of the legions that hates Pacifica. They have been very good at what they do. Some have blamed them for ruining Bob in the past, but it simply isn't true. They have either been loved or hated (sometimes both) by every major power that has come and gone in the last few years. They've been the reason alliances joined together, and they've been the reason alliances have split up. Their actions have shaped the way most of us view Bob. Whether our alliance leaders are where they are due to a past alliance breaking up, whether our alliance has lived in Peace Mode for an eternity (FAN) or whether we are enjoying power thanks to being aligned with them.

The day where NPO falls will come eventually. It may well be as a result of this war, or it may be at another time. At some point they will surrender and their impressive winning streak will come to an end. For me, that day will be neither happy nor sad. It will just be one more mark in the rich history of our little planet.

[Denial]

Lets be realistic, this war had to happen. The funny thing is, 95% of all of those on Karmas side in this war, can be found at one time or another to have hailed Pacifica for her past actions, at points in time where Pacificas actions benefitted them in some way, shape, or form. We are all sort of hypocrites in that respect. The sooner we all admit that, the sooner we can fight a fun war and make it all about blowing things up, and not about retribution or loyalty or honour.

Speak for yourself. My stance on the aggressive actions of Pacifica has remained constant for three years. They once again attacked a friend and ally without justification. This is all about retribution, loyalty and honour.

[ztilbeht]

Speak for yourself. My stance on the aggressive actions of Pacifica has remained constant for three years. They once again attacked a friend and ally without justification. This is all about retribution, loyalty and honour.

Exactly.

While certainly there are those who may have been allied with the New Pacific Order in the past, I would say participating in the destruction of the beast more than redeems them.

[Comrade Smith]

Exactly.

While certainly there are those who may have been allied with the New Pacific Order in the past, I would say participating in the destruction of the beast more than redeems them.

The NPO is dying for their sins? Very messianic of them.