An Open Letter to Archon and Karma at Large

[Steve Buscemi]

TruHartBrakN, already starting to whine one day into the war?

Your blunder in attacking during peace negotiations doesn't negate someone else's greater mistake. You deserve what you are getting and your former allies who lost all their honor today will get what's coming to them in the future when no one wants to sign a treaty with them.

It still doesn't change the situation for the NPO. Btw, you did the same to the GOONS and \m/ during the UJP war and the NpO in the last war. Doesn't feel so good now does it?

Edited April 22, 2009 by Steve Buscemi

[mattski133]

NPO: We accept all the terms you've laid down so far.

Karma: You're preparing for peace!!!!!! We can't have that! These peace discussions are over!

Can't you see how silly you sound? If peace was reashable and it looked like it easily was then NPO nations being in Peace Mode after wouldn't have mattered one bit. Does anyone make that copnnection? You are all fools.

Pathetic. No honor at all.

You know as well as anyone war can be conducted with peace mode as a viable strategy. Don't be ridiculous.

[Bob]

This makes no sense. NPO nations had plenty of time to get into peace mode before negotiations began. Unless you have evidence that these nations were being ordered into peace mode, then please kindly stop guessing NPO's strategy. Sorry if I'm taking this all a little personally but I was a member of NPO for a very long time and I find it very hard to digest this sickening display of gangbanging on my former alliance.

Anyways, I'm off to Iceland for a week. I hope you all have fun kicking an alliance when its down.

Watching their peace mode numbers increase dramatically while negotiations were oncoming would kind of be a dead give away.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[SirDog]

Anyways, I'm off to Iceland for a week. I hope you all have fun kicking an alliance when its down.

Yep, and NPO never did that right? And then extort tech in the form of peace terms.

Nice attempt to pull the old guilt trip. What a hoax!

Come again.

o/ Karma!

[Jamacus]

Oh the irony is delicious.

[Yubyubsan]

Karma needed a respected voice to speak for them. Hopefully that voice manages to remain above the hypocrisy that it speaks for.

Edit: While I do firmly believe that NPO deserves to be thoroughly rolled, I also believe that the "It's ok to do it to them because they did it first" defense is very weak, and shows a lack of moral character.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Yubyubsan

[Rynka]

This makes no sense. NPO nations had plenty of time to get into peace mode before negotiations began. Unless you have evidence that these nations were being ordered into peace mode, then please kindly stop guessing NPO's strategy. Sorry if I'm taking this all a little personally but I was a member of NPO for a very long time and I find it very hard to digest this sickening display of gangbanging on my former alliance.

Anyways, I'm off to Iceland for a week. I hope you all have fun kicking an alliance when its down.

*DING* NPO policies for the last 2 years?

That.

You're truly delusional if you actually believe what you're saying.

[TruHartBrakN]

Archon and others speaking on behalf of Karma have stated that NPO were using the talks as a stalling tactic to get more of their nations into peace mode. Now either that is true and the rush shown by Archon was warranted, or it is not true and Archon lied about the tactic and rushed he talks unnecessarily. From what you've said so far, it would appear that you believe the talks were rushed unnecessarily. By that logic, you must also then believe that the NPO was not stalling and not ordering their nations into peace mode and therefore believe that Archon was lying.

It's kinda sad that I had to explain all of that for you...

Actually what is kind of sad is the way you see things so black and white. Its quite possible that there was no order to get NPO nations into peace mode and yet Archon and Co. still believed they were rushing to get there. That's sorta what happens when you have a 900 man alliance.

[TruHartBrakN]

TruHartBrakN, what would you do if over 150 nations of the alliance you were rolling suddenly jumped into peace mode? Archon had to make a decision quickly, wether or not the NPO nations were ordered into peace mode is completely irrelevant. The point is that it happened. Archon did the damn right thing and you know it, put your pride in your back pocket and man up.

Where are you getting the 150 number from? Please do tell..

[TruHartBrakN]

The punishment should fit the crime. Seeing as how we don't support EZI, then that will not ever be the case here. Although given the nature of their crimes against many of those who stand with us, it would certainly be fair according to their rules. Problem is, we're not fighting their war their way. We're fighting our war, our way.

Terms should be harsh, as this is indeed an object lesson in what happens when you treat people like dogs. We're all in this for our own reasons as well as those of our alliance. I ask you though, OP... where were these pleas for mercy when NPO was the one bringing the hammer down for far, far, less? No... we'll not stoop to their level. But these demands for mercy are absurd to say the least. Walk a mile in our shoes, then you'll see why many of us are so angry.

P.S. I'm sure you meant no disrespect by your post and I've tried my best to take care that I've shown you none in return. So really, in the end, I guess you could say that that's why we fight. I know that's why I and many of my friends do. I never heard anyone say anything about us being the number one big dog once this is over, all I've ever heard from my allies is what I post here. Everything else is personal opinion, and should be treated as such. Include myself among that number.

Hello. Nice post, dude. I fully understand the feelings toward NPO and their allies but that's not really what my OP was about. My OP was about Archon and his dealings with NPO in the private channel negotiating for peace. If he didn't want peace, he shouldn't have been there "negotiating" for it. Its quite clear in the logs that he didn't want peace. As far as the peace mode argument goes, there have been no actual facts to back up these allegations. As a former member of NPO, I can tell you that if NPO wanted their nations into peace mode, it would have happened a lot sooner and a lot more efficiently than that. The bottom line is there was most likely no such order and the rush to end negotiations was near-sighted.

[TruHartBrakN]

TruHartBrakN, already starting to whine one day into the war?

Your blunder in attacking during peace negotiations doesn't negate someone else's greater mistake. You deserve what you are getting and your former allies who lost all their honor today will get what's coming to them in the future when no one wants to sign a treaty with them.

It still doesn't change the situation for the NPO. Btw, you did the same to the GOONS and \m/ during the UJP war and the NpO in the last war. Doesn't feel so good now does it?

You are a bright one aren't you. I didn't make any blunders and I am not in the NPO. Nice job reading and understanding my position in the OP. Now, please, for your own sake, get out of this thread.

[magicninja]

You know as well as anyone war can be conducted with peace mode as a viable strategy. Don't be ridiculous.

Ask Fan how it worked out for them. If Archon and others wanted peace it would've happened and the peace mode nations wouldn't have mattered one bit. You as well as anyone should know that. Stop being ridiculous.

[Captain Flinders]

That's sorta what happens when you have a 900 man alliance.

What happens? They all decide to jump into peace mode at the same time by some cosmic coincidence?

NPO had this coming for a long time. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

[magicninja]

What happens? They all decide to jump into peace mode at the same time by some cosmic coincidence?

NPO had this coming for a long time. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

NPO: We accept all the terms you've laid down so far.

Karma: You're preparing for peace!!!!!! We can't have that! These peace discussions are over!

Can't you see how silly you sound? If peace was reashable and it looked like it easily was then NPO nations being in Peace Mode after wouldn't have mattered one bit. Does anyone make that copnnection? You are all fools.

Pathetic. No honor at all.

Also the famous "NPO did it so we can" speech from those who wanted to bring change. tsk tsk.

[enderland]

If they were preparing for a peaceful resolution why would they order nations into peace mode?

[Gruthenia]

Ask Fan how it worked out for them. If Archon and others wanted peace it would've happened and the peace mode nations wouldn't have mattered one bit. You as well as anyone should know that. Stop being ridiculous.

Maybe you should ask MK how peace mode worked for us - we used it extensively during the last war and it worked quite well.

[Ogaden]

Don't hold your breath.

Edited April 22, 2009 by James Dahl

[Captain Flinders]

NPO: We accept all the terms you've laid down so far.

Karma: You're preparing for peace!!!!!! We can't have that! These peace discussions are over!

That's not how the conversation went though.

Can't you see how silly you sound? If peace was reashable and it looked like it easily was then NPO nations being in Peace Mode after wouldn't have mattered one bit. Does anyone make that copnnection? You are all fools.

Have you heard all the NPO drones going on about their victory in GW1? They talk and wiggle themselves out of everything. Why give them yet another chance to do so. NPO has attacked so many and sentenced so many to destruction that I don't even think Karma should have been offering peace so soon at all. But since they did, and NPO flew into peace mode to protect themselves, the attacks continued. Karma is by no means obligated to give NPO peace at this time so I fail to see how they lose honor by not putting up with NPO's stalling tactic.

Pathetic. No honor at all.

Says the person tied to TPF. Right.

Also the famous "NPO did it so we can" speech from those who wanted to bring change. tsk tsk.

Karma intends to be very different from the NPO. However, the case needs to be made that the NPO should sweat a bit by their own tactics. Will Karma PZI their whole alliance? No. Will they ZI list those nations in peace mode already? No. Then by my count, we're already doing a much better job of being fair and just with power than the NPO has.

[King Srqt]

People are much to quick to blame Archon. There were many voices in his ear last night and many who were convinced that NPO was stalling in order to get into peacemode.

You know I have respect for you TruHart and I see where you are coming from Karma as a whole acted hastily and perhaps not in the best possible way but please do not attribute it to any history that Archon had with the NPO in the past, it is not fair to him and it is not true.

Edited April 22, 2009 by KingSrqt

[Aloop]

Hi Tru. Long time, never see.

I'd like to cite the relevant portions of Moo's log, so you can go back and re-read the pertinent bits it again.

[21:59] <Moo-cows> hang on a sec

[21:59] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> If you won't accept the fifth term.

[22:00] <Moo-cows> so are we under protection during that time?

[22:00] <@Archon> Yes

[22:00] <Moo-cows> by whom?

[22:00] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> by whom, exactly?

[22:00] <@Archon> Ordo Verde.

[22:00] <@Archon> During this time, the NPO will be under the protection of Ordo Verde. To assist in this matter, all nations currently in peace mode will remain in peace mode for the duration of the terms.

[22:00] <Moo-cows> excuse me

[22:00] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> then why aren't they here?

06[22:00] * @Archon points to Dani_C

[22:00] <Moo-cows> they are

[22:07] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Our constituency is growing tired.

[22:07] <@Archon> You are negotiating in poor faith

[22:07] <@Archon> Given your actions outside of this channel.

[22:07] <@Archon> If you do not accept or reject within the next minute

[22:07] <@Archon> It will be seen as stalling

[22:08] <@Archon> ANd I will be forced to end these negotiations.

[22:08] <Cortath> *You* are negotiating in poor faith. There is no "time limit" here.

[22:08] <Cortath> The terms were until 10 PM CN time. We are two hours away. We have quite a bit of time.

[22:08] <@Archon> Cortath - Your lack of cooperation are noted.

06[22:08] * Cortath chuckles.

[22:08] <Zhadum> We are stalling when you refuse to even permit our leader to be present?

[22:08] <@Archon> Bakunin was empowered to speak on his behalf.

[22:08] <@Archon> Thank you.

[22:08] <Zhadum> When Moo was offline, he no longer is

[22:09] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> That was agreed to before we began.

03[22:09] * Moo-cows has joined #peacetalks

03[22:09] * Archon sets mode: +o Moo-cows

[22:09] <@Archon> Accept or reject.

15[22:09] <Bakunin> We wish to know how violations of the terms will be addressed prior to continuing.

06[22:09] * @Archon sighs

[22:09] <@Archon> The time has elapsed.

[22:09] <@Archon> I apologize for the time limit

As I, and many others in GOD see it, the NPO negotiators spent the whole hour and a half quibbling and delaying the procedure. If it took them this long to conditionally accept some rather straightforward terms, I wonder how long they would have been willing to quibble while pretending that wording had to be changed before they would accept for real. I don't know the exact number of people who went into peace mode. What I do know is that NPO attacked OV, is now being attacked by the Karma coalition, and is complaining about surrender terms that are nowhere near as harsh as one they've handed out (or refused to hand out).

As Srqt said, please lay off Archon. In this instance, he had little choice in what he said or how he said it. Karma's going to be a b^$&% like that, sorry.

Edit: TL;DR: NPO had nine minutes to accept the term in question, they spent an hour and a half stalling, Karma saw NPO nations going into Peace Mode, Karma got fed up with the stall tactics.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Aloop

[Romeo Valenti]

To be honest, I think part of it is that much of Planet Bob simply doesn't want NPO around anymore... If a powerful tyrant's allies run away like cowards and the fight becomes unfair, is it really prudent to give the battered despot the chance to regain power, even though removing him has become a deed more fitting of a butcher than a warrior? I say do the dirty deed and be done with this whole thing.

*The above opinion is expressed solely by myself and myself alone. It is in no way, shape, or form meant to be viewed as the opinions of any person or persons not posting it.*

[Requia]

Edit: While I do firmly believe that NPO deserves to be thoroughly rolled, I also believe that the "It's ok to do it to them because they did it first" defense is very weak, and shows a lack of moral character.

Isn't that argument the very nature of justice? A primitive, crude justice of an eye for an eye true (though I very much doubt karma will ever support what NPO did to FAN or GATO), but then, the very idea an alliance can be called to task for what its done, irrespective of the power it wields, is new here.

NPO was attacked for what it tried to do to OV, for what it did do to its other enemies, and it was abandoned for what it tried to do to TORN, and what it did do to other allies. That is justice, that is karma.

[Mr.Shadow]

The wheels fell off one bandwagon, and most will be hopping onto another.

[Requia]

The wheels fell off one bandwagon, and most will be hopping onto another.

That too.

[TruHartBrakN]

What happens? They all decide to jump into peace mode at the same time by some cosmic coincidence?

NPO had this coming for a long time. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Why do you refuse to debate about the topic at hand? I am not arguing that NPO didn't deserve it or have it coming.. I'm arguing about Archon's negotiation tactics. Please use one of the other 1800 threads if you want to spout anti-NPO stuff..

The "cosmic coincidence" nonsense is just absurd, how many members jumped into peace mode? 10? 20? That's about 2.5% of the whole alliance..