LoSS restructuring

[kobiashiy]

Best of luck to you LoSS

[New Reverie]

It is already slightly suspect that you would suddenly have a change of heart and want to cancel all of your treaties. Perhaps it is truly as you have said, an attempt to join the "side" which you say better matches your personality while you still have the chance; if it is, I can't really fault that. It is quite a bit worse, however, if you tried to sneak military intel with you on your way out of a treaty relationship. Everyone tends to get excited about defections in the confusion leading up to a battle, but these are the kind of things that will stick with you for a long time afterward. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you have a decent explanation as to why mhawk's post doesn't show a large breech of trust that ought to shake the confidence of your present and future allies. What exactly happened in that conversation?

If I had treaty partners that continually engaging in offensive curbstomps without good cause as many of LoSS's former allies have, I'd be canceling too. It was only a matter of time before tC and co tried to use LoSS to their own ends. I can't quite remeber the last time they cared about another alliance's sovereignty when it meant maintaining their status quo.

You know the status quo right. The one that was enforced when polar got too big for its pants and Moo canceled the OoO so that you could get rolled and then subjected to enslavement for months. LoSS has a good and strong history in this game. They are getting back to their roots. By the way you and your emperor sound it seems polaris is getting back to theirs.

I have a second fiddle in my home, you can borrow it any time you want to play.

[deth2munkies]

If I had treaty partners that continually engaging in offensive curbstomps without good cause as many of LoSS's former allies have, I'd be canceling too. It was only a matter of time before tC and co tried to use LoSS to their own ends. I can't quite remeber the last time they cared about another alliance's sovereignty when it meant maintaining their status quo.

You know the status quo right. The one that was enforced when polar got too big for its pants and Moo canceled the OoO so that you could get rolled and then subjected to enslavement for months. LoSS has a good and strong history in this game. They are getting back to their roots. By the way you and your emperor sound it seems polaris is getting back to theirs.

I have a second fiddle in my home, you can borrow it any time you want to play.

The question is what the heck took them so long? )):

[Captain Flinders]

They bravely ran away. Bravely ran away, away. Brave, brave sir LoSS!

I fail to see how they ran anywhere. They've been slighted by their allies in the past and the new revamp of their entire alliance (government, foreign policy, etc.) does not believe those treaties forged largely out of necessity and possibly even fear are treaties that they can honor with a clear conscience. Besides, you're definitely should not be one to talk about defending allies when war seems apparent.

[Desert Ratz]

The question is what the heck took them so long? )):

An absence of Caesar and the govt finally waking up.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Desert Ratz

[KaitlinK]

I am sadden to see some of the responses in this thread. Some have insinuated that rising tentions led to a mass cancellation. This sounds utterly absurd when you think about it. If LoSS and these alliances had the type of relationship that was equal to the treaty level they had- no cancellation would have been necasary.

None of us know the relationships that existed prior to these cancellations we can guess, comment, or make fools of ourselves claiming to know, but in the end this is LoSS calling it like they see it. Will it serve them well? Who the hell knows but I have a deep fondness for this alliance and truely wish them all the best.

[Penguin]

If I had treaty partners that continually engaging in offensive curbstomps without good cause as many of LoSS's former allies have, I'd be canceling too. It was only a matter of time before tC and co tried to use LoSS to their own ends. I can't quite remeber the last time they cared about another alliance's sovereignty when it meant maintaining their status quo.

You know the status quo right. The one that was enforced when polar got too big for its pants and Moo canceled the OoO so that you could get rolled and then subjected to enslavement for months. LoSS has a good and strong history in this game. They are getting back to their roots. By the way you and your emperor sound it seems polaris is getting back to theirs.

I have a second fiddle in my home, you can borrow it any time you want to play.

The comment you quoted was about requesting private intel after you have decided to cancel, which is not the right thing to do for any side. I don't see how LoSS's enslavement or Polaris' past history are in any way relevant to the classification of this as a mistake and the acceptance of a lesson learned. In my opinion, politely expressing concern over an alliance who asked for intel as they were canceling a treaty, as I have done, is constructive both for LoSS and the community as a whole.

Your black and white idea that any criticism of an alliance is tacit support of the perceived opposition is both wrong and insulting. However, the fact that you care deeply for LoSS given your past history with them is reason enough to make you sensitive of any criticisms they might receive and I can't hold it against you too heavily.

[cleaverlch]

The comment you quoted was about requesting private intel after you have decided to cancel, which is not the right thing to do for any side. I don't see how LoSS's enslavement or Polaris' past history are in any way relevant to the classification of this as a mistake and the acceptance of a lesson learned. In my opinion, politely expressing concern over an alliance who asked for intel as they were canceling a treaty, as I have done, is constructive both for LoSS and the community as a whole.

Your black and white idea that any criticism of an alliance is tacit support of the perceived opposition is both wrong and insulting. However, the fact that you care deeply for LoSS given your past history with them is reason enough to make you sensitive of any criticisms they might receive and I can't hold it against you too heavily.

Did he really request the intel? Or was he told in uncertain terms of what is going to happen and wanted clarification? Either way, it's obvious that mhawk only posted what was benefiting him and what he represented. Else the whole log would have been posted showing what really happened or he would have just kept quiet.

[Penguin]

Did he really request the intel? Or was he told in uncertain terms of what is going to happen and wanted clarification? Either way, it's obvious that mhawk only posted what was benefiting him and what he represented. Else the whole log would have been posted showing what really happened or he would have just kept quiet.

I don't know, that's why I said I would give you the benefit of the doubt and wait for an explanation. Then New Reverie decided to defend you and shove a few unkind words onto me without knowing exactly what happened either.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Penguin

[Lennox]

Hey if you're gunna cancel why not do 'em all at once.

[mhawk]

I am not sure if LoSS passed on info or not I do know that I heard from like 10 different people about TPF's issues and plans against PC way before 5 minutes prior to this announcement though.

There is a difference between hearing a rumor mill and demanding information as an ally. I would wager the ally info is alittle bit more valuable.

[mhawk]

Did he really request the intel? Or was he told in uncertain terms of what is going to happen and wanted clarification? Either way, it's obvious that mhawk only posted what was benefiting him and what he represented. Else the whole log would have been posted showing what really happened or he would have just kept quiet.

You want to call me a liar, very well then. However I'd suggest you all get on the same page.

[cleaverlch]

You want to call me a liar, very well then. However I'd suggest you all get on the same page.

You can call yourself whatever you wish. I never stated that you were a liar, however your post did suggest that you were using the logs to your benefit.

Edited April 17, 2009 by cleaverlch

[Alterego]

Not counting conflicting treaties, if you cant honour a treaty when the time comes then don't sign six. I hope all alliances look beyond the politics of this suspension attempt and see it for what it is if they are considering a treaty with LoSS in the future. Good luck loss I hope the future holds a positive result for your alliance or the paymaster general will call by to collect his due. :jihad:

[mhawk]

You can call yourself whatever you wish. I never stated that you were a liar, however your post did suggest that you were using the logs to your benefit.

My benefit? I'm simply pretty mad I get a demand for info as an ally and i gladly inform, then get a cancelation minutes later.

[The Desert Fox]

Holy Mary, Mother of God.

Gutsy move LoSS. I like it. Best of luck to all parties in the future.

Edited April 17, 2009 by The Desert Fox

[Captain Flinders]

My benefit? I'm simply pretty mad I get a demand for info as an ally and i gladly inform, then get a cancelation minutes later.

Surely the great Phoenix Federation, the group so proud of "diplomatically isolating" so many alliances, is not upset about being diplomatically shafted. Surely this cannot be.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Captain Flinders

[mhawk]

Surely the great Phoenix Federation, the group so proud of "diplomatically isolating" so many alliances, is not upset about being diplomatically shafted. Surely this cannot be.

Your sarcastic remarks do little to answer or address in any rational way the issue raised.

[LordSlade]

It is already slightly suspect that you would suddenly have a change of heart and want to cancel all of your treaties. Perhaps it is truly as you have said, an attempt to join the "side" which you say better matches your personality while you still have the chance; if it is, I can't really fault that. It is quite a bit worse, however, if you tried to sneak military intel with you on your way out of a treaty relationship. Everyone tends to get excited about defections in the confusion leading up to a battle, but these are the kind of things that will stick with you for a long time afterward. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you have a decent explanation as to why mhawk's post doesn't show a large breech of trust that ought to shake the confidence of your present and future allies. What exactly happened in that conversation?

I really had not planned to post in this announcement other than the OPost, but when I saw this I felt I needed to. Take it for what you will as most will do that anyway. As the OP and a Consul, by everything admin holds true, no information was given out by myself or any of the others that I know of. Hell I didn't even know PC was involved in the conversation they were having. Believe it or not, LoSS still has integrity. (On a personal note the only integrity we ever lost came a few months ago when we turned our backs on everything LoSS ever stood, fought, and bleed for.) As I stated before, take this as you will, no knowledge of anything was ever passed from an ally to an outside source. It is the truth. I can't snap my fingers and make you believe, but it is true.

Anyway, of course if you see this move of LoSS as brave or not, smart or not, depends on perspective. So many things do. Only time will actually help to determine how good of a move is this. You have good restructuring now LoSS.

My god this post nearly takes the words out of my mouth. It all depends on who you are if you love us, hate us, like us, despise us. I said it during our birthday thread on march 31 that things were going to change (those things can now be seen days later in this OP). It was going to depend on who you were if you thought those changes were good or bad. Forshadowing is a pleasure my friends, that much I admit.

Slade

1/3 Consuls of LoSS

*REFERENCE NOTE

And here they go posting this when I'm not around. Thanks to all those that wished us well for the past 3 years and to those that wish us to see the next 3 years.

While I wasn't around when we were on Black I have done enough history research to know what is the true color of LoSS. Be it good or bad (depending on who you are) you may see a new LoSS in the coming months. Pride tends to make backs straighten and stand taller, shoulders to broaden, and balls to grow.

Slade

[Krunk the Great]

NOTE CHANGER:

o/ This announcement and the fact that it was made

[pezstar]

Surely the great Phoenix Federation, the group so proud of "diplomatically isolating" so many alliances, is not upset about being diplomatically shafted. Surely this cannot be.

Two wrongs do not equal a right.

"This side" has spent YEARS complaining of the injustices perpetrated by "that side". Then, when some of the same things happen to "that side", "this side" suddenly seems to think they're ok because "That side did it first". No. It's still not ok. A wrong is a wrong, regardless of whether or not you are friends with the perpetrator.

[Captain Flinders]

Your sarcastic remarks do little to answer or address in any rational way the issue raised.

Turnabout is fair play. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Rational enough for you?

[shahenshah]

LoSS could not have done more to choose sides with this. Oh wait they did when they signed a treaty with Nemesis. Side chosen

Twist here is LoSS also msgs and demands information as a 'trusted ally' and then switches sides.

-

So LoSS was all good with treaties until 5 mins before cancellation? If thier deligence takes only 5 mins to cancel several treaties....then well, Good luck to your speedy restructuring, should have finished by now right?

We have to stop saying good lucks here and there, only Nemesis deserves Good Luck here

Edited April 17, 2009 by shahenshah

[LordSlade]

Twist here is LoSS also msgs and demands information as a 'trusted ally' and then switches sides.

-

So LoSS was all good with treaties until 5 mins before cancellation? If thier deligence takes only 5 mins to cancel several treaties....then well, Good luck to your speedy restructuring, should have finished by now right?

We have to stop saying good lucks here and there, only Nemesis deserves Good Luck here

Please refer to my post 4 posts above yours. We haven't been "all good" with our treaties for awhile.

[Penguin]

I really had not planned to post in this announcement other than the OPost, but when I saw this I felt I needed to. Take it for what you will as most will do that anyway. As the OP and a Consul, by everything admin holds true, no information was given out by myself or any of the others that I know of. Hell I didn't even know PC was involved in the conversation they were having. Believe it or not, LoSS still has integrity. (On a personal note the only integrity we ever lost came a few months ago when we turned our backs on everything LoSS ever stood, fought, and bleed for.) As I stated before, take this as you will, no knowledge of anything was ever passed from an ally to an outside source. It is the truth. I can't snap my fingers and make you believe, but it is true.

I didn't ask for anything more than a post to this effect. I'm glad to hear you know it is wrong to retrieve intel in that manner. I'm happy to take you at your informed word on this, though perhaps the more involved parties will press further.