The Phoenix Federation

[Electron Sponge]

I'm afraid it's far more complicated than that, as it seems that Vox has gone in against a Sicilian with death on the line.

"You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me."

Inconceivable.

[Epiphanus]

truly a dizzying logic

I don't think you can really use the word logic, in that context.

[mhawk]

I'm wondering if you recall the accuracy of every other screen they've ever posted. Hmm. TPF: 1 VOX: 50. I'm gonna go with Vox on this one.

Then the score will stand TPF 2: STA 0

[Logan]

Alright I'm sorry this is just stupid. Are you canceling the treaty or not. I'll take your word for it, but then again if you lie I most likely won't be able to trust you again.

[Denial]

Then the score will stand TPF 2: STA 0

I think your scoreboard may be broken.

[mhawk]

Alright I'm sorry this is just stupid. Are you canceling the treaty or not. I'll take your word for it, but then again if you lie I most likely won't be able to trust you again.

Treaty is canceled.

[Get Sum]

This is my first post so pls forgive me if I'm coming from left field

80% of the posts here seem to be motivated by something not mentioned in this thread and seem to be cries to their mothers.

I would feel compelled to offer ppl tissues, so they can dry their eyes, but it seems they would be more inclined to use them for something else.

Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in why ppl feel such hostility, but they seem more inclined to simply whinge than express themselves, which makes reading these threads painful.

Some of u are genuinely humorous, informative and make this forum enjoyable. The vast majority of U though seem to create an environment that discourages ppl from even reading these threads and thus engaging with the game beyond their own alliance's forum; which is sad.

[OneBallMan]

I think almost every alliance has its fair share of mistakes. An alliance which is stating "Look, we know we messed up and are fixing it NOW" is all that matters in my opinion. Though it will be difficult, they are making a step for change. Valhalla made the step when they eliminated NoWedge from their ranks. GGA took the step with Prodigal was couped. Though some changes fail and some succeed, it is a pleasure to see such intentions.

Though TPF is somewhat vague and simply states the crime will fit the punishment, disregarding mandatory-sentencing-like approach, I feel they will hold their word. It would be completely illogical for them to make such an honorable announcement, in my opinion, in HOPES of resurrecting their name and good will, then completely disengaging it and allowing themselves to go against their statements made in this thread. I highly doubt they will abandon this announcement and thus be attacked publicly from all factions on these boards, they are trying to retie themselves, to help themselves, to fix mistakes in the past, not to remake them, recommit them, and be dishonorable and display opposite intentions form this announcement, it would hurt them, not help them, which this announcement is trying to do - showing their new colors despite their past, trying to change instead of saying "screw it, we can't do it". The future will tell us which path they take.

Ok, so I am not officially gov, or maybe I am, I don't know. But let's be clear about something. The shens/no shens argument aside on our Vahalla treaty, the PZI/EZI announcement is deadly serious. I affixed my name to WarriorConcept's pledge against PZI/EZI and I stand as committed to that as I did then. My past actions speak to that committment and I challenge anyone to say otherwise.

To see mhawk formalize what should, imho, have been our policy all along is heartening and totally appropriate. I think PZI/EZI is BS and always have. But let's not confuse TPF's need to maintain its security in a time of war, i.e. a VietFAN situation, with the (to me) abhorrent PZI/EZI sentence that has been brought down on some. You want perpetual war? Let's do it. You want some peace, let's talk.

[Hasin]

I'm going to laugh if you don't actually resign the Valhalla treaty in an attempt to keep this masquerade up.

[James Wilson]

Treaty is canceled.

So, you say its canceled but what are you going to say to all the people if in 10 days we see a "TPF-Valhalla MADP"? Sure, you might have fooled them once before and then you claimed to have found Vox's spy. If that is the case then I believe the SS.

[empirica]

The wording on the EZI or PZI part is vague, but that's not necessarily so evil. I've seen hundreds (thousands?) of examples of charters, internal legislation, and treaties having vague language in them. That is because these documents don't typically foresee every possible situation, and it would be very difficult for them to do so.

Even if it's ambivalent, this step towards getting rid of EZI is a good thing in my book.

As for the treaty announcement/cancellation/whatever, who cares? Time will tell. It's not like it affects anything immediately anyway, with a 15 day termination period.

[mhawk]

I'm going to laugh if you don't actually resign the Valhalla treaty in an attempt to keep this masquerade up.

To behonest the plan was to upgrade prior to this announcement. However when it came down to it, there were issues and concerns between our friends and their allies regarding TPF, notably several treaty cancelations, particularly with allies of theirs. The op is true and the treaty is canceled, but we remain friends, and along with our new policies will hopefully resolve the issues that stood in the way of our originally intended upgrade.

[Merrie Melodies]

By executive order, the Phoenix Federation will exercise the following policy in regards to enemy combatants.

“For all in-character actions taken against The Phoenix Federation, reasonable terms in relation to the crime will be presented to the offending ruler. These terms shall be designed to uphold the highest values and traditions of the Federation and under no condition will mandate or indirectly attempt to force the destruction of a ruler. “

This is totally meaningless. (OOC: Only Admin and his staff have to power to cause the destruction of a ruler) EZi/PZi Does not force the destruction of a ruler, If TPF no longer uses EZi/PZi come out and say it, otherwise your words are utter BS.

ARTICLE IV

Upon ratification by their respective alliance's legislative process this treaty is enacted for a period of one hundred and eighty (180) days, at which time it shall be subject to renewal, or until it is terminated by either signatory. Should either party decide it is not in their interests to retain this treaty, be it during the renewal period or at any other time; the signatories shall still be subject to the terms of the treaty for a period of fifteen (15) days. Violations of this agreement are grounds for dissolution of this agreement without prior notice.

Whooptie Doo, it's not like there aren't numerous "other" lines drawn between your alliances. I am chalking one up to Sponge on this account.

[erikz]

To behonest the plan was to upgrade prior to this announcement. However when it came down to it, there were issues and concerns between our friends and their allies regarding TPF, notably several treaty cancelations, particularly with allies of theirs. The op is true and the treaty is canceled, but we remain friends, and along with our new policies will hopefully resolve the issues that stood in the way of our originally intended upgrade.

And those issues are most probably going to be resolved in the next 10-15 days right?

[mhawk]

This is totally meaningless. (OOC: Only Admin and his staff have to power to cause the destruction of a ruler) EZi/PZi Does not force the destruction of a ruler, If TPF no longer uses EZi/PZi come out and say it, otherwise your words are utter BS.

I thought my statement was pretty clear. For any IC offense EZI/PZI is not an option. I like how i worded it better, but there ya go.

[mhawk]

And those issues are most probably going to be resolved in the next 10-15 days right?

One would hope, however I don't see things happening that fast. We will do our best of course.

[Logan]

To behonest the plan was to upgrade prior to this announcement. However when it came down to it, there were issues and concerns between our friends and their allies regarding TPF, notably several treaty cancelations, particularly with allies of theirs. The op is true and the treaty is canceled, but we remain friends, and along with our new policies will hopefully resolve the issues that stood in the way of our originally intended upgrade.

Alright, so for now the cancellation is real. But you don't deny that if diplomatic steps are taken then the treaty will be resigned. Because The Möbius Accords is still retains your signatures, I'll just consider the individual treaty is suspended. The SS isn't really that convincing for either side, because there has been steps for counter-intelligence, but I'll take your word for it.

[Merrie Melodies]

I thought my statement was pretty clear. For any IC offense EZI/PZI is not an option. I like how i worded it better, but there ya go.

Well crap, Now I have to go and do this:

o/ TPF, elimination of EZi/PZi is a most honorable move.

[sammykhalifa]

This is totally meaningless. (OOC: Only Admin and his staff have to power to cause the destruction of a ruler) EZi/PZi Does not force the destruction of a ruler, If TPF no longer uses EZi/PZi come out and say it, otherwise your words are utter BS.

I accepted the wording as being written in an in-character way. If I'm wrong and they were using those words to try to lawyer their way out of this later, then certainly someone will call them out on that.

[Hasin]

To behonest the plan was to upgrade prior to this announcement. However when it came down to it, there were issues and concerns between our friends and their allies regarding TPF, notably several treaty cancelations, particularly with allies of theirs. The op is true and the treaty is canceled, but we remain friends, and along with our new policies will hopefully resolve the issues that stood in the way of our originally intended upgrade.

Thanks for the clarification.

[agnews]

wow a

oh rly

arugement from sponge and mhawk

thats one for the books

Edited April 14, 2009 by agnews

[mhawk]

wow a

no u

arugement from sponge and mhawk

thats one for the books

It's quite the honor to share a stage with such a figure

[JWConner]

As I've read through the multitude of speculation and condemnation against TPF's decisions, we at VA support our big brothers in TPF and mhawk's decisions. E-ZI/P-ZI are both overkill and shouldn't be accepted. We at VA have held that belief since our inception and congratulate our allies on declaring the same.

As to the treaty cancellation, sometimes friends grow apart and have differing views. Hopefully ties can be re-established but if they can't, good luck to both parties. The issues don't seem to be unfixable, but time will only tell.

[agnews]

It's quite the honor to share a stage with such a figure

looks like i diddent make the edit

sigh

[Epiphanus]

To behonest the plan was to upgrade prior to this announcement. However when it came down to it, there were issues and concerns between our friends and their allies regarding TPF, notably several treaty cancelations, particularly with allies of theirs. The op is true and the treaty is canceled, but we remain friends, and along with our new policies will hopefully resolve the issues that stood in the way of our originally intended upgrade.

This should have been what you should have done rather than denying for three pages.