Announcing The Bus Doctrine

[extraduty]

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

wow some evil raiders there, owe the destruction and agony

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

look at all the carnage here

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

golly how can we live with ourselves as evil raiders

[King Xander the Only]

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

wow some evil raiders there, owe the destruction and agony

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

look at all the carnage here

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

golly how can we live with ourselves as evil raiders

No kidding. You guys are a joke.

[Yubyubsan]

Speaking generally, we're content to leave PC be if PC leaves us be.

Like threatening PC and then editing your post to hide it?

It looks like some folks just can't be reasonable, eh? Really, Zilla's objections are at least somewhat well-grounded, the man's just grabbing at every straw he can find to start a fight.

Again, luck with this folks.

His objections are based on the perversion of this doctrine by people who lack the same reasonable nature you seem to be so desperate to see.

[agafaba]

Its ok, I have the deed to the pink sphere and am willing to sell it to PWN extra cheap. PM me for further details.

Once the transaction is done we can end all this silly business of who owns what spheres.

[Chinatownbus]

Its ok, I have the deed to the pink sphere and am willing to sell it to PWN extra cheap. PM me for further details.

Once the transaction is done we can end all this silly business of who owns what spheres.

I was under the impression that you didn't want to sell! I guess the economy takes its toll on everyone.

[Chinatownbus]

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

wow some evil raiders there, owe the destruction and agony

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

look at all the carnage here

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...yallexact=exact

golly how can we live with ourselves as evil raiders

wow ED, i think you just won. Not the thread, not the game, no...you just won everything. Ever.

[extraduty]

wow ED, i think you just won. Not the thread, not the game, no...you just won everything. Ever.

Won? I was simply pointing out how much we are evil raiders hell bent on destroying nations for our pleasure

But yeah I figured I shut the misinformed up till they come up with a new trollument (word is a work in progress)

[Jack Diorno]

I was under the impression that life had gotten boring since no major wars are erupting, but as soon as someone does something that could create some fun everyone's monacles drop from their offended faces.

EDIT: gammer

Edited April 2, 2009 by jack diorno

[Monster]

I think with the clarification provided that there's no need to bash PWN. They're offering diplomatic assistance first and foremost unlike what went on under Yellow No 5. I see no wars being started willy nilly because someone attacked a Pink nation.

While PC may have focused on raiding in the past, they've made significant strides to broaden their horizons as shown with their attempts to unite the pink sphere, so I don't think calling them on hypocrisy really fits here. They've repeatedly said they don't want to stop anyone from traditional raiding, but rather abusive practices such as extorting tech in exchange for peace. I'm certain most raiding alliances agree that isn't an appropriate thing to do.

[D34th]

What are you, the CN Tech Raid Police? Everyone can do whatever they want to unalligned nations. The thing with Red team is that it belongs to NPO, so no one can really argue against them protecting Red team. As for this however, Pink team is not owned by anyone, so this doctrine will get all of you guys beat down.

If red team is a property of NPO why pink team can't be a property of those three alliances? The only difference is because NPO has the political power to enforce it while this pink nations...

Double Standards...

[agafaba]

I was under the impression that you didn't want to sell! I guess the economy takes its toll on everyone.

I didn't receive any bailout money, so its time to liquidate.

[Timmmehhh]

I think with the clarification provided that there's no need to bash PWN. They're offering diplomatic assistance first and foremost unlike what went on under Yellow No 5. I see no wars being started willy nilly because someone attacked a Pink nation.

While PC may have focused on raiding in the past, they've made significant strides to broaden their horizons as shown with their attempts to unite the pink sphere, so I don't think calling them on hypocrisy really fits here. They've repeatedly said they don't want to stop anyone from traditional raiding, but rather abusive practices such as extorting tech in exchange for peace. I'm certain most raiding alliances agree that isn't an appropriate thing to do.

This^^

Congrats to PC and friends

[Bob Janova]

This is flat out stupid. You won't defend against someone like Valhalla or IRON, if you try to you will get crushed by the MDP web, and therefore any action you do take against weaker alliances is itself bullying. Chinatownbus: the new Walford. Who'd have thought it?

[Kindom of Goon]

I can definately see why some would cry hypocracy. I mean I see two PC raids on blue right now, if a Blue alliance raided a pink nation and you had to go to them and ask them to stop, all the while you're raiding one of theirs... I can see some taking issues in that sort of scenario.

Still its good to see alliances trying something bold, good luck with this, I hope it works out.

[Mayzie]

Before you keep trumpeting your filth, allow me to speak on RAD's tech raiding policy, as found in our charter.

Yes, that is an entire section dedicated to tech raiding. We as an alliance do not promote tech raiding actively, but if our members would like to raid, they are allowed to do so as long as they follow the guidelines. If, after all of this, you feel that we at RAD are still "avid" tech raiders, then you clearly lack a sound grasp on the English language.

and on that note, I present to you.....THE TECH RAID LOTTERY SHOW!

I, like many people, find it extremely hypocritical that an alliance who co-ordinate gang raid's (or used to not so long back) and one which advertises it's raids as some sort of joke should dictate what force may or may not be used in a raid on their chosen sphere.

However, good luck with this guys, I'm all for sphere unity and protecting your trade partners, shouldn't be too hard to do on pink, I mean there's only like four or five nations unaligned on that sphere anyway isn't there? (lolpink)

[Thorgrum]

Specifically, once an unaligned pink nation has come under attack, they are encouraged to bring their case to the Pink Court (located at the PWN forums). They shall state their case, and should the members of PWN deem their cause worthy of protection, shall undertake diplomatic procedures and negotiations to procure peace for that nation

I understand the cries of hypocrisy, i dont necessarily agree but PC has a reputation as raiders. If thats changed and or evolved wonderful, still cant change the past.

that being said as I read the doctrine as stated today in the OP the attacked nation has to present thier case to a "Pink Court" and that court deems it worthy or not based on the criteria of excessive force? I think this is moving in a good direction for the sphere and the doctrine in of itself isnt without merit. However as Tyga pointed out earlier in the thread the lack of specifics hurts the perception and intent.

If someone is using air raids and CM's it isnt really a "tech raid" (in the generally accepted context) but rather a hostile action nation to nation. Could be noobs being noobs or it could very well be an alligned nation punishing an unalingned pink for some transgression which might be perfectly valid (IE a tech scam, ghosting)

Specifying in the doctrine the "diplomatic procedures and negotiations" to be undertaken, IF the court deems the case worthy might be a good addition and add another level of clarification and transparency to alieve concerns of those who are skeptical. Detailing what the court will do on behalf of the unaligned nation will eliminate ambaquity and give its detractors less arguing points.

[astronaut jones]

I understand the cries of hypocrisy, i dont necessarily agree but PC has a reputation as raiders. If thats changed and or evolved wonderful, still cant change the past.

that being said as I read the doctrine as stated today in the OP the attacked nation has to present thier case to a "Pink Court" and that court deems it worthy or not based on the criteria of excessive force? I think this is moving in a good direction for the sphere and the doctrine in of itself isnt without merit. However as Tyga pointed out earlier in the thread the lack of specifics hurts the perception and intent.

If someone is using air raids and CM's it isnt really a "tech raid" (in the generally accepted context) but rather a hostile action nation to nation. Could be noobs being noobs or it could very well be an alligned nation punishing an unalingned pink for some transgression which might be perfectly valid (IE a tech scam, ghosting)

Specifying in the doctrine the "diplomatic procedures and negotiations" to be undertaken, IF the court deems the case worthy might be a good addition and add another level of clarification and transparency to alieve concerns of those who are skeptical. Detailing what the court will do on behalf of the unaligned nation will eliminate ambaquity and give its detractors less arguing points.

Well, use your head then. Do you really think they'd get involved with legitimate reasons for the attack, as you've outlined above? Do you not think the whole point of the pink court is to decide what is and what is not worthy of involvement on their part?

Not everything needs to be spelled out in it's entirety. I refuse to believe people on PB are that dense as to be talked to in such a way as to make a 5 year old roll their eyes and tell you "I'm not that stupid, it was kind of implied."

[Thorgrum]

Do you really think they'd get involved with legitimate reasons for the attack, as you've outlined above?

Assuming they want the doctrine to be taken seriously as a sphere wide unity project, yep.

Do you not think the whole point of the pink court is to decide what is and what is not worthy of involvement on their part?

Of course, but adding specific actions to be taken should a case be accepted is prudent, and dosent proclude them from deciding what is worthy or isnt.

[Ragnor]

and on that note, I present to you.....THE TECH RAID LOTTERY SHOW!

I, like many people, find it extremely hypocritical that an alliance who co-ordinate gang raid's (or used to not so long back) and one which advertises it's raids as some sort of joke should dictate what force may or may not be used in a raid on their chosen sphere.

I'm going to have to agree with Mayzie. It smacks of hypocrisy for an alliance that started the Tech Raid Lottery Show to be trumpeting this. That doesn't mean that I don't wish you the best of luck with it, only that it seems to be hypocritical to an outside observer.

[astronaut jones]

Assuming they want the doctrine to be taken seriously as a sphere wide unity project, yep.

Of course, but adding specific actions to be taken should a case be accepted is prudent, and dosent proclude them from deciding what is worthy or isnt.

So you think, in order for them to be taken seriously, they should get involved if say, Monos Archein is legitimately attacking a nation on pink for, let's say stealing aid. You want them to get involved with that, in order for them to be taken seriously.. really now? You'd actually expect them to get involved in legitimate attacks agains a member of the pink sphere or else you wouldn't take them seriously?

Really?

Are you sure?

[astronaut jones]

I'm going to have to agree with Mayzie. It smacks of hypocrisy for an alliance that started the Tech Raid Lottery Show to be trumpeting this. That doesn't mean that I don't wish you the best of luck with it, only that it seems to be hypocritical to an outside observer.

Gang raiding was outlawed in PC a hell of a long time ago. And you act as though other alliances never co-ordinate their own raids? If you're going to attack someone, atleast attack them for a reason that's not acceptable by EVERY OTHER RAIDING ALLIANCE, as opposed to one that IS. The reason it was outlawed in PC (a very long time ago) was because you're essentially being a dick because of it. Maybe they changed the rule since I was there, but seriously.

Get your facts straight if you're going to hate on someone, or atleast pick a much better reason.

As for RAD, well, the tech raid lottery show was a dick move.

My bad, this reply was supposed to be to mayzie. Either way, pass the message on to them for me, please.

Edited April 2, 2009 by astronaut jones

[Thorgrum]

So you think, in order for them to be taken seriously, they should get involved if say, Monos Archein is legitimately attacking a nation on pink for, let's say stealing aid. You want them to get involved with that, in order for them to be taken seriously.. really now? You'd actually expect them to get involved in legitimate attacks agains a member of the pink sphere or else you wouldn't take them seriously?

Really?

Are you sure?

For a sphere wide doctrine to be taken seriously they should specify what actions they will take should a case be approved via the court system. I thought I was clear, perhaps I wasnt though so here you go I dont mind posting something twice.

I refuse to believe people on PB are that dense as to be talked to in such a way as to make a 5 year old roll their eyes and tell you "I'm not that stupid, it was kind of implied."

There isnt any "implied" meaning in my specific critique, thanks for the lulz though.

Disclaimer: I dont speak for Monos Archein my posts here are representative of the player not the alliance.

Also, I wont be able to reply to any other posts that odd thing called "RL Work" beckons, PM me for further discourse.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Thorgrum

[astronaut jones]

For a sphere wide doctrine to be taken seriously they should specify what actions they will take should a case be approved via the court system. I thought I was clear, perhaps I wasnt though so here you go I dont mind posting something twice.

There isnt any "implied" meaning in my specific critique, thanks for the lulz though.

Disclaimer: I dont speak for Monos Archein my posts here are representative of the player not the alliance.

Also, I wont be able to reply to any other posts that odd thing called "RL Work" beckons, PM me for further discourse.

No, you said in order for them to be taken seriously, they need to get involved in legitimate attacks against pink nations. And they don't. They need to let legitimate attacks go, because otherwise it really is just YN5 again. What they're doing is setting up a red protection court, but on the pink sphere. The NPO doesn't get involved unless they ask for help, and only after they deem that help is required/it's not a legitimate attack.

I'm pretty certain that was what was implied here.

[ChairmanHal]

You can raid. If your raid target should come to us for help, and we decide that he deserves our help, we will give him help.

This will either result in:

1. Pink becoming more stable and an attractive place for nations to settle.

2. An arbitrary place, where non-aligned/small alliance nations are raided to provoke reaction and the large alliances on Pink have to constantly deal with pleas for help and and have to pick and choose which nations to save at the risk of a larger war and which to allow to go up in flames.

Prediction: Fatigue will set in and this whole thing will fade away.

[Haflinger]

If someone is using air raids and CM's it isnt really a "tech raid" (in the generally accepted context) but rather a hostile action nation to nation. Could be noobs being noobs or it could very well be an alligned nation punishing an unalingned pink for some transgression which might be perfectly valid (IE a tech scam, ghosting)

Just a note - you can't punish an unaligned for ghosting. Someone whose AA is set to None is by definition not a ghost.

While I was no fan of the RAD tech raid show, I don't hold that against this doctrine. Seems to me that maybe they've come to realize some of the reasons why that post elicited such furor.

Moving towards stopping abuses by raiders is a good thing, IMO.

Also, I suspect that if they codified what actions needed to be taken to provoke a response by them, that certain parties would immediately set to organize en masse to commit those offenses. Instead they're simply asking raiders to not be jerks - why should that be controversial?

Sigh.