Trouble at the MCXA?

[SIWELCELA]

not sure if anyone has posted this yet but it sems to be a more contrdictory opinion on this topic

Operation KILLDOZER part 1–Truth And Reconciliation

This past week, the MCXA was rocked by the resignation of almost its entire government on nearly no notice. These former government members formed a new alliance, The Sweet Oblivion, which was promptly placed under TOP’s protection. There have been a lot of rumors and supposition flying around about what actually happened. Now you will know the unvarnished truth.

First, let’s look at what one of the principals have to say where prying eyes won’t see, or so he thought. Sam (aka Baden-Wurttemberg) told Continuum leadership on February 16th that he and and 90% of his government were bolting to start a new alliance (click the thumbnail for a full sized image):

sam1

http://tattler.assimilator.org/sam.jpg

A few things need to be noted about this before we move on. First, this post is dated the 16th. This is a full week before TSO was announced on the CN forum. If we are to believe what we are hearing from some members of MCXA (which we will, I’m getting to that), most of them had no idea that anything like this was going down. TSO disagrees. Second, there is already mention of a TOP protectorate. TOP stated repeatedly in the TSO announcement thread that the matter had been discussed between all three parties (MCXA, TSO, and TOP) and that it was an amicable arrangement.

Lies.

MCXA had no clue what was about to happen. They were not consulted. TOP never took part in any three party talks. Don’t want to take my word for it? Take Dr. Fresh’s (aka Raunchero) word for it. In this post from the same thread in the Continuum leadership forum (Continuum Sanctum), Doc Fresh lays out what really went down:

Dr Fresh speaks for MCXA's perspective

Dr. Fresh continued

http://tattler.assimilator.org/drfresh.jpg

http://tattler.assimilator.org/drfresh2.jpg

http://tattler.assimilator.org/wp-content/...02/drfresh3.jpg

As you can see by reading Fresh’s post, MCXA was pretty much entirely in the dark. Fresh didn’t know until a week previous to his post on the 23rd - which puts it squarely on the 16th, the date of Sam’s post telling Continuum what was about to happen. On the 16th when Sam posted, he was already in talks with TOP for a protectorate. So, TOP knew about this well before MCXA did. This is how allies treat each other.

There’s not much else I can say that Dr. Fresh’s post doesn’t already say. I’ll let you all draw your own conclusions comparing what I have just shown you to the 40 page slugfest on the CN forum and the spin that went on there. This is how the Continuum operates. They feed you all a smiles and gumdrops version of events, but the reality is much darker and more dysfunctional. I am not saying that everything Continuum members say is a lie - there are some good and honest people in that bloc. What I am advocating is that when their leaders speak you pay close attention to their words and question them. They have deigned to set themselves up as rulers of this game, it is up to you to hold them accountable.

[D34th]

I think TOP's only crime in this case was to believe their friends who make up TSO, and also to not gauge MCXA opinion below the incoming two government members. It would appear that Fresh is not happy and that his 'permission' to TOP to protect TSO was probably more of a 'I don't want to make a scene while I have an alliance to rebuild' than a 'Sure, they're cool'. TOP look a little naive but those of you assigning malice or duplicity to them are doing so out of personal agendas, in my opinion.

(One of TOP's few faults, imo, is playing too much of the political game through two or three top representatives, which does make it easy to misunderstand an alliance's position. That appears to be the case here.)

I agree. The permission for protectorade agreement was gave in middle of a tempest, and I doubt that they could give it now.

[bkphysics]

With all the shady dealings that occurred, I wonder if TOP will be removing that protectorate treaty?

I for one wouldn't want to be protecting someone who already showed an inability for full disclosure.

[shahenshah]

With all the shady dealings that occurred, I wonder if TOP will be removing that protectorate treaty?

I for one wouldn't want to be protecting someone who already showed an inability for full disclosure.

and history of uncertain allegiances?

[mattski133]

shazzam.

[bkphysics]

and history of uncertain allegiances?

My brain is still waking up, but I am not sure what you mean?

[Shardoon]

not sure if anyone has posted this yet but it sems to be a more contrdictory opinion on this topic

The issue posted above has been addressed at length throughout this thread.

Thanks for noticing.

[maxfiles]

to help the time line of understanding

I got told about this on the 15th late evening pacific time, by a member of mcxa.

so on the 15th of feb, the rumors started on this. By the 16th they knew they had to act.

Many members of the mcxa are hurt by these events, people you think you can trust as loyal members up and pull something like this..

Should Top be held accountable, sure they should, only to their treaty and bloc partners, and that's it. The question about TOP is this, did they violate any of their treaties in doing this. If yes, they should be held accountable, if not, then let it alone.

As for TSO, Their plan was planned out, and it was premeditated, weeks or months in advance to slip one at a time out quietly. TFS and Valashu were supposed to be the first ones. they left on the 11th.. Sam had quietly announced he was stepping down as co-chancellor on the 12th but he would stay a few more days and then make an announcement.. That to me clearly says, I'm planning to betray my alliance when your working on a mass exit strategy to work out over time.

When the plan broke wide open on the 16th they all still ran for government, none of them withdrew from elections, that would also conclude they wanted to do as much damage as possible, by laying waste to the high council, and to the many departments. One in their right mind would say, if your going to leave you should resign from elections. They did not. very few resignations from government actually happened.

The Lessons to our alliance and many others is this, do not allow one person in your alliance to become indispensable, or irreplaceable, or do all the work and have no one else left to do the work. The deputy of a department should be just as good as the department head, the many members working in that department should be able to function without having a department leader directly over top of it. Never allow people to stay in government for extended periods of time unless they know when to quit. While it sounds great to be a leader or department head forever, alliances should think about that.

That is all I have to say on this.

[Blacky]

I still like TOP and I think I kinda like MCXA now. Awesome. Good luck with restructuring MCXA - Fresh and Gopher are great leaders.

[hizzy]

TOP look a little naive but those of you assigning malice or duplicity to them are doing so out of personal agendas, in my opinion.

If I can agree with this, anyone can.

[Nizzle]

I think TOP's only crime in this case was to believe their friends who make up TSO, and also to not gauge MCXA opinion below the incoming two government members. It would appear that Fresh is not happy and that his 'permission' to TOP to protect TSO was probably more of a 'I don't want to make a scene while I have an alliance to rebuild' than a 'Sure, they're cool'. TOP look a little naive but those of you assigning malice or duplicity to them are doing so out of personal agendas, in my opinion.

(One of TOP's few faults, imo, is playing too much of the political game through two or three top representatives, which does make it easy to misunderstand an alliance's position. That appears to be the case here.)

I'm going to have to agree.

[fupresti]

I think everyone agrees that TOP showed no malice in the situation. TSO clearly misled them.

Did anyone really think these upper echelon from MCXA had any decency or honesty? Time and time again they lied and manipulated to achieve their own goals and protect their positions in government. This isn't a new pattern of behavior for Sam and company, it is the status quo.

[Shimmer]

A thread in CN making it to 49 pages. The end is officially in sight.

[hizzy]

A thread in CN making it to 49 pages. The end is officially in sight.

Well the trick here is that most threads get locked because people love to talk about stuff like this. In this case, this discussion is 100% relevant to the OP, so we could keep it going for 100 pages. Even Vox wouldn't derail it.

And oh the loss of author's rights paid off beautifully.

Edited February 26, 2009 by hizzy

[Joe Kremlin]

A thread in CN making it to 49 pages. The end is officially in sight.

Officially longer than the DoW that started the last big war.

[SIWELCELA]

I find this to be interesting because NPO at one point shut down and destroyed an alliance that me and tow other members of the legion started at one point becuase we did the exact same thing as what they have done to MXCA.

[Chickenzilla]

I like how TSO and Q have gone silent. With the exception of some TOP people.

[Reason]

A thread in CN making it to 49 pages. The end is officially in sight.

It's a very serious issue, which is why it has lasted so long.

However, it is also fairly moot, these negative responses, since they carry no force of action with them. In this sense, it is ridiculous that it has gone 49 pages.

[Chinatownbus]

I like how TSO and Q have gone silent. With the exception of some TOP people.

There's really not much anyone can say at this point. What do you want them to say?

[Chickenzilla]

There's really not much anyone can say at this point. What do you want them to say?

idk, it seems strange to not see TBB in here acting like he's a bad $@! or something.

Telling Vox they are irrelevant and have no spies. Something like that.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Chickenzilla

[Penguin]

The Lessons to our alliance and many others is this, do not allow one person in your alliance to become indispensable, or irreplaceable, or do all the work and have no one else left to do the work. The deputy of a department should be just as good as the department head, the many members working in that department should be able to function without having a department leader directly over top of it. Never allow people to stay in government for extended periods of time unless they know when to quit. While it sounds great to be a leader or department head forever, alliances should think about that.

This seems like a weakly related lesson to take away from this situation given that nearly the entirety of the government, including almost 50 of the most active members, left all at once. That's more members than many alliances have and certainly no alliance can reasonably be expected to have an equal number of government backups ready and waiting to take over at a moment's notice. You can prepare for a few leaders stepping down here and there but you cannot prepare for anything of this magnitude on such short notice.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Penguin

[Electron Sponge]

What I am not clear on is how TOP was misled. I see a lot of people claiming that but no further explanation of it. From what I can see, the only people who were misled in this scenario were the rank and file members of MCXA. The rest of the involved parties are up to their ears in conspiracy and cover up. This includes TOP. You mean to tell me that TOP, an alliance which has a longstanding reputation for cautious diplomacy and due diligence, blundered their way into a protectorate of a splinter group from an allied alliance that was breaking away while still pursuing another term in their offices at said alliance? Anyone who seriously believes that needs to lay off the pipe. What they were doing was protecting members of their small clique of nations that control Continuum (and therefore the foreign affairs realm in general) from the well deserved retribution of a vengeful world. The opinions of the hundreds of nations affected matter nothing to them. The hegemony must be protected at all costs, after all.

TOP knew about this before MCXA did. When they found out that fact, did they take a step back and say "Slow down, we need to rethink things"? No. They pushed forward with the protectorate and proceeded to mount a disinformation campaign right here in this discussion. It is only when I revealed the incontrovertible truth that the backpedaling started and people began to claim that TSO were the bad guys and TOP were just innocents hoodwinked by the evil Sam and Co. I don't buy that nonsense for one second. TOP are a lot of things but they are neither foolish nor incompetent. It is clear to me that they knew exactly what they were doing.

Several other Continuum alliances offered their assistance to TSO privately before the alliance was announced, by the way. This is entirely a case of a small clique of players taking care of each other at the expense of hundreds (and perhaps thousands should something untoward happen).

This is the world you all choose to live in. It can change if you want it to.

[Chickenzilla]

What I am not clear on is how TOP was misled. I see a lot of people claiming that but no further explanation of it. From what I can see, the only people who were misled in this scenario were the rank and file members of MCXA. The rest of the involved parties are up to their ears in conspiracy and cover up. This includes TOP. You mean to tell me that TOP, an alliance which has a longstanding reputation for cautious diplomacy and due diligence, blundered their way into a protectorate of a splinter group from an allied alliance that was breaking away while still pursuing another term in their offices at said alliance? Anyone who seriously believes that needs to lay off the pipe. What they were doing was protecting members of their small clique of nations that control Continuum (and therefore the foreign affairs realm in general) from the well deserved retribution of a vengeful world. The opinions of the hundreds of nations affected matter nothing to them. The hegemony must be protected at all costs, after all.

TOP knew about this before MCXA did. When they found out that fact, did they take a step back and say "Slow down, we need to rethink things"? No. They pushed forward with the protectorate and proceeded to mount a disinformation campaign right here in this discussion. It is only when I revealed the incontrovertible truth that the backpedaling started and people began to claim that TSO were the bad guys and TOP were just innocents hoodwinked by the evil Sam and Co. I don't buy that nonsense for one second. TOP are a lot of things but they are neither foolish nor incompetent. It is clear to me that they knew exactly what they were doing.

Several other Continuum alliances offered their assistance to TSO privately before the alliance was announced, by the way. This is entirely a case of a small clique of players taking care of each other at the expense of hundreds (and perhaps thousands should something untoward happen).

This is the world you all choose to live in. It can change if you want it to.

I like where Reyene told Sam that he should expel all of the members that didn't agree with him because that is what she would do if someone disagreed with her.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Chickenzilla

[Meer Republic]

Thanks Bob, Hizzy and others. As far as I'm concerned we've done nothing wrong, we did consult both parties and as such did a degree of due diligence. That said it now seems that some of the folks concerned may not have been completely honest about their feelings on the matter. Maybe we are guilty of taking what we are told for granted as this sort of situation was always going to cause some hard feelings but you can only work off the information at hand.

@Sponge: You're making a lot of assumptions based on whose word you believe to carry more weight. I guess time will tell who's right.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Meercats

[Electron Sponge]

I like where Reyene told Sam that he should expel all of the members that didn't agree with him because that is what she would do if someone disagreed with her.

You mean this part? I thought it was cute too.

Aw, Sam. Expel the trouble-makers, even if that means getting rid of half your alliance.

I can't tell you, though, how many times I've had the very same thought regarding OG.. (I have my moments.)

But whatever you do, Sam, you will always be a friend to OG and me. Perhaps your new alliance can be a new member of tC.