CNRP OOC Thread

[Triyun]

[url="http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5435/aupscreens.png"]http://img831.images.../aupscreens.png[/url]


Hmm... pretty much direct evidence of a GM bid solely to harm other players. I have to say this type of obsession isn't healthy for everyone. You guys should all do Yoga or something. I haven't seen it in even the most real politik of #nordic chats back when I was in that channel.

Oh and btw, just to let you guys know, #nordic never obsessed with an AUP Cold War. This is pretty one sided obsession on your part. Nice to know we're all loved though

Edited November 19, 2012 by Triyun

[Executive Minister]

Hmmm....

[Executive Minister]

Alright. A small update if you will.

After careful consulting with my security staff, I will say this- thank god we never let Uber into our private thread. That my friends, would have resulted in extremely NSFW screenies from good ole Triyun and his pet snake here including orgies, scatological humor and a whole lot of bromance.

[Triyun]

[quote][b]Gloval[/b]: I've been removed from the AUP convo[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJSkrF8nhxg"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XJSkrF8nhxg[/url]

[quote][b]Gloval[/b]: EM: "I regret nothing except for the fact that I personally trusted you enough to include you in the public thread. Putting our region's security first involves such "obsession". In any case, when the big one hits, i'll most definitely be seeing those tanks of yours on the other side. I sure hope theyre as good as you say they are. Toodles. "[/quote]

I'm declaring this my new secret street gang's theme: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyVZFJGX5g"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NZyVZFJGX5g[/url]

Also the AUPs theme! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVp01pdI81I&feature=relmfu

Edited November 19, 2012 by Triyun

[Beauty]

Good god, Leave EM a lone

[Evangeline Anovilis]

The Lion King was a true masterpiece in my opinion. Made my childhood much richer.

[Triyun]

Yes it is glorious, and [s]Scar[/s] EM already has the Hyena Army. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108972&st=400#entry3045155

[Gloval]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1353306900' post='3054439']
Alright. A small update if you will.

After careful consulting with my security staff, I will say this- thank god we never let Uber into our private thread. That my friends, would have resulted in extremely NSFW screenies from good ole Triyun and his pet snake here including orgies, scatological humor and a whole lot of bromance.
[/quote]

I don't fully understand this post, indulge me...are you trying to say that orgies, poop jokes, and bromance are a bad thing? While I've never personally been in an orgy, I can tell you that poop jokes and bromance are good fun. However, I don't think I've ever done those things with Triyun, hell, we rarely ever talk to each other. I'd love to see those screenshots, though I have this feeling that they don't exist. I posted things that I found potentially harmful to the community on the community chat, #CNRP IRC. Triyun just happens to lurk there.

Obsession and OOC grudges lead to nothing good, and outing such things as soon as possible should hopefully lead to a better community. I see a stark difference between say, planning a completely IC attack, and planning OOC power-plays out of hate or disdain for another player. Perhaps my "dirty laundry in the yard" philosophy is wrong, time will tell, but after having personally experienced what grudges can do (simply look to my angry days as Finland V "Nords"), I simply cannot see letting such OOC attitudes fester in secrecy to be pro-community. So, while what I'm saying may sound all high-and-mighty or something like that, I just feel the need to stress that CNRP is a just a game, and that harboring such strong feelings over a game can't be healthy.

Oh, I do have a IC-related question. Is Terre Regius still a member of the AUP?

[Executive Minister]

The AUP was created at a specific time and place in Africa's IC history, and has served its purpose as it was intended since then, and will continue to do so on into the future. There are no regrets to any of this in my mind and I am sure like minded individuals will agree.

Your dirty laundry in the yard philosophy has shown CNRP that you cannot be trusted in a position of confidence - that's it. To think somehow that other players do not have similar views in private about 'anything' when their guard is down is laughable to say the least. You will change nothing except the views of others about you.

As for your membership in the AUP, that's up to you it has, and always will have an open door policy (a policy that will need to be re-examined later on, but I digress). But you'll be damned sure your actions here will not be forgotten.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Executive Minister

[Gloval]

Well, if the community disagrees with my philosophy, then they can just tell me outright. I don't see who they're going to offend, I'm certainly not going to feel bad about it. But this isn't a question of "similar views" EM, this is a question of obsession and scheming. Honestly, I believe the screenshots say enough.

It's one thing to be against an IC nation, it's another thing entirely to be against an OOC player.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Gloval

[Executive Minister]

Obsession is a subjective word. Your repeated usage of it will not make me suddenly realize 'the error of my ways' because I see none. 'Scheming' happens behind all closed doors all of the time, you are naive if you think otherwise. As for this position of me acting as a force counter to Triyun - you've been gone a while and you have not given anyone any surprising news with this release. Again, your outing was nothing but a complete and unprecedented violation of the position of trust you were given as a member of that convo. You have only changed the timeline of the inevitable.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

[quote name='Gloval' timestamp='1353329420' post='3054487']
Well, if the community disagrees with my philosophy, then they can just tell me outright. I don't see who they're going to offend, I'm certainly not going to feel bad about it. But this isn't a question of "similar views" EM, this is a question of obsession and scheming. Honestly, I believe the screenshots say enough.

It's one thing to be against an IC nation, it's another thing entirely to be against an OOC player.
[/quote]
While I keep my opinion on the whole AUP vs Nordic or whatever affair to myself, I do think that there is a difference between just refusing to participate in schemes, telling someone that they are obsessed and that their obsession may be unhealthy and outright going to abuse faith put into you and carrying confidential information to people that should not have access to it. Because regardless of how you feel about it, this whole situation does not mean OOC scheming will disappear, all you did was to stir up drama and while I have mixed feelings on this whole affair, I believe that if you really wanted to help EM, then your advice would have come in a way that would not just be a punch right into the face, royally screwing up EMs public image and ridiculing him. Defusing situations requires delicacy, not just brute force, some OOC relations have their trenches, but they won't be filled with dirty laundry.

And originally I thought I'd just say nothing, because this is just a mess that is as much EMs fault, as it is just a horrid display of, for the lack of a better word, treachery, but I don't think it's ok to let it stand that this situation is all well, apart from the AUP, that is evil and scheming and has to be put on public display, so we can throw rotten fruits at them.

[Gloval]

While this may be an extreme example, I view this situation as the following:

Say somebody invites you into their home, a show of trust, yes? You spend some time in their home, and then you start to notice things, like that they have a book sitting on their bed. The bedroom isn't the lounge, it takes their trust to let you into their bedroom/office/whatever. But then you open this book and realize it's a journal, and in that journal is the detailed plans of this individual to assassinate somebody. Is it wrong to violate that person's trust and bring it to the police?

I realize it isn't a perfect example, but it's the best way I figure to explain my thought process. I'm not trying to "change EM's ways", that isn't my job. I simply feel it is my duty as a member of this community to bring things that I view as harmful to the community, to the community's attention. So yes, I betrayed his trust, but I view trust as secondary. If I believed in all honesty that my best friend was going to commit a crime, and that I couldn't convince them otherwise, I would report them. Perhaps that makes me a bad person, I'm not an ethicist.

My goal was never to change EM's mind. I've been in enough internet debates to see that is a useless gesture. My goal was instead to present solid evidence of what I believe is an anti-community mindset and let the community do with it what it will. I welcome anybody to do the same to me if I am ever violating the IC/OOC line in such a manner.

[Centurius]

Honestly you people like attacking Gloval over this but he's just the whistleblower here. What these screenshots show is organized harassment, corruption of the GM's court and OOC hostility exceeding the limits of the game by far. Especially the proposed corruption of the GM seat is perhaps the worst crime of all in it. I for one am happy Gloval showed us the lengths AUP members will go to.

[Poseida]

Am I the only one who thinks that Executive Minister "resent[ing]" Sarah Tintagyl is ridiculously overboard and kind of mental? What kind of thought process goes from, [i]oh this other person doesn't do the same RP I do, let's literally dislike them as a person[/i]?

The whole GM thing (I still don't understand that but I digress) aside, the most worrying part of this entire revelation is that people here are actively disliking and, apparently, hating one another over fiction. What the hell goes on that makes you people get so personal? I can get trying to make some fictional megapower crystals to get an advantage, I can get trying to rig the rules in your favor (it is a game, after all), but ... just, why all the personal crap?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

[quote name='Gloval' timestamp='1353333392' post='3054501']
While this may be an extreme example, I view this situation as the following:

Say somebody invites you into their home, a show of trust, yes? You spend some time in their home, and then you start to notice things, like that they have a book sitting on their bed. The bedroom isn't the lounge, it takes their trust to let you into their bedroom/office/whatever. But then you open this book and realize it's a journal, and in that journal is the detailed plans of this individual to assassinate somebody. Is it wrong to violate that person's trust and bring it to the police?

I realize it isn't a perfect example, but it's the best way I figure to explain my thought process. I'm not trying to "change EM's ways", that isn't my job. I simply feel it is my duty as a member of this community to bring things that I view as harmful to the community, to the community's attention. So yes, I betrayed his trust, but I view trust as secondary. If I believed in all honesty that my best friend was going to commit a crime, and that I couldn't convince them otherwise, I would report them. Perhaps that makes me a bad person, I'm not an ethicist.

My goal was never to change EM's mind. I've been in enough internet debates to see that is a useless gesture. My goal was instead to present solid evidence of what I believe is an anti-community mindset and let the community do with it what it will. I welcome anybody to do the same to me if I am ever violating the IC/OOC line in such a manner.
[/quote]
Ok, now, I don't say it's the best thing to be always on ones guard, if it borders obsession (something EM may or may not have), but I think what we saw in these posts is really not comparable with an assasination plot. Sure freezing cold relations are a rather bad issue, but in the end, EM can decide whom to let RP in his protectorate and whom not, EM can decide whom to attack and whom not and the two arguably bad things in there are the tone in which people talk (though when I look at this whole issue here, the respect issue is pretty much a mutual one. Not that I expect people to have much respect left by now) and the GM talks. Otherwise it's no different from how certain people would not like having Kankou in Asia, just that in this case, it's Sarah in Africa.
[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1353334909' post='3054506']
Honestly you people like attacking Gloval over this but he's just the whistleblower here. What these screenshots show is organized harassment, corruption of the GM's court and OOC hostility exceeding the limits of the game by far. Especially the proposed corruption of the GM seat is perhaps the worst crime of all in it. I for one am happy Gloval showed us the lengths AUP members will go to.
[/quote]
That you are happy with it is surely not surprising to me. I still know how when the GM court was Triyun, you and "impartial" Vektor. Not that any corruption of the GM's court is acceptable, but it's not like corruption of the GM court is a wholly new affair. In general, I'd say, what has been shown here are in their entirety no new problems. Not even the attack is actually news. Just certain people like to call Gloval the "Whistleblower" and use the logs to throw a bit of dirt around.

Also, I said this, because I think these actions were a breach of trust. The exact content of what was leaked was to be expected and I don't boast, but admit, I expect not much to change there. Of course, I could reiterate the "Let's all respect each other, work out cooperative RP and try to stay a united community that aims for good RP", but by now, I think that'd be pure naivity, an empty phrase on deaf ears (or blind eyes, given this is read, not heard).

[Triyun]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1353328835' post='3054485']
The AUP was created at a specific time and place in Africa's IC history, and has served its purpose as it was intended since then, and will continue to do so on into the future. There are no regrets to any of this in my mind and I am sure like minded individuals will agree.
[/quote]

But its not like that specific time and place was preceded by like [i]any[/i] systematic aggression on Africa. Most of Africa's history prior had Voodoo and Lavo dominate protectorates and there wasn't really much of a push at all beyond the very edge of the continent to take over that role even though it could've easily been done. So you cannot really make any argument that Africa was deserving the sort of obsession that you're showing here.

Like it just strikes me that this is unique in its single minded and yes anti-community attittude. Its not actually backed up by much historical provocation and maybe Sarah pushed you to view the UFE as something that needed to be opposed. Maybe your alliance with Cochin at first started you having a hostile view of the UFE, I don't know. But in both those cases, like neither actually took it to the degree you seemed to IC, and the reason you have people who are 'traitors' as seems to be your view of Sarah is simply because we talked and ended up finding we had a lot in common. With Cochin we talked IC and came to some sort of detente and then friendship because again its a community.

There really isn't an argument that says this type of behavior on your part is justified, and if you're plotting way beyond what most people consider the bounds of IC, I got to say thats a big problem. You're not counterbalancing anyone, [i]you're the problem[/i].

[quote name='Evangeline Anovilis' timestamp='1353348306' post='3054560']
Ok, now, I don't say it's the best thing to be always on ones guard, if it borders obsession (something EM may or may not have), but I think what we saw in these posts is really not comparable with an assasination plot. Sure freezing cold relations are a rather bad issue, but in the end, EM can decide whom to let RP in his protectorate and whom not, EM can decide whom to attack and whom not and the two arguably bad things in there are the tone in which people talk (though when I look at this whole issue here, the respect issue is pretty much a mutual one. Not that I expect people to have much respect left by now) and the GM talks. Otherwise it's no different from how certain people would not like having Kankou in Asia, just that in this case, it's Sarah in Africa.

That you are happy with it is surely not surprising to me. I still know how when the GM court was Triyun, you and "impartial" Vektor. Not that any corruption of the GM's court is acceptable, but it's not like corruption of the GM court is a wholly new affair. In general, I'd say, what has been shown here are in their entirety no new problems. Not even the attack is actually news. Just certain people like to call Gloval the "Whistleblower" and use the logs to throw a bit of dirt around.

Also, I said this, because I think these actions were a breach of trust. The exact content of what was leaked was to be expected and I don't boast, but admit, I expect not much to change there. Of course, I could reiterate the "Let's all respect each other, work out cooperative RP and try to stay a united community that aims for good RP", but by now, I think that'd be pure naivity, an empty phrase on deaf ears (or blind eyes, given this is read, not heard).
[/quote]

There's the small matter that Sarah has never [u]been[/u] in Africa. Kankou went to Asia twice and has RPed the same character group across nations, whose primary political intentions have been in Asia. Sarah hasn't brought her characters with her over rerolls except in the same geographic areas or overt RPing of those characters. There's never been a secret shadow government. Its undeniable Kankou's done exactly that which is OOC in and of itself. I do not think you can actually equate the two on a factual basis. I mean it looks like her RP with Patrick is a continuation of this Shadow govt.

Further, in regards to the GM Court. You may not have liked Vektor but we basically had two choices there, one was Vektor, one was Shammy. Shammy had just quite so we had to appoint someone with technical knowledge. We chose Vektor, who has questioned others tech before. You may not have liked that choice and if you didn't that's too bad, but thats no excuse for specifically running for GM and saying 'this is your chance to screw these guys over, I'm going to rule so you do this.' I would say if Vektor had wanted to take Shammy's open spot at the time he had quite the incentive to not be biased, and I've known the man for 5 years, Vektor would not be biased normally but especially would not be in those circumstances. He's smart enough to know an opportunity when it presents itself like that.

Really again I go back to what I said to EM Eva. Respect actually does exist we've seen examples of it. The only time respect does not exist is when one group decides its such a victim that ends always justify the means. I mean not only is there plenty of OOC examples of getting along, I've fought IC wars with Martens, Sarah, Centurius, Impy, Justinian, JED, Frost, Cochin the list goes on only to sign alliances with them later. No offense Eva but I think that you're the one who is being naive when you say people can't get along and be respectful after some slight in game. Its easily done, all you have to do is make an effort to talk to people and act chill.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Triyun

[Malatose]

We are once again reminded of the depths of depravity, of some people.

Just sick.

[Kankou]

Several things on Triyun's comment:

1. Sarah had been in Africa, except for various reason that particular nation just died without much sound.
2. Now bringing over characters is OOC? Wow, I never knew that having natural political development or just having characters immigrate is automatically OOC.
3. My RP with who?


More importantly: Did you people have to mention me or state definitely false statements? I'm content to just sit back and enjoy this small show of hypocrisy, but it seems despite some people always going "leave me alone", they wouldn't leave others alone. That's even more hypocritical than anything related to this AUP thing. Of course, the entire "corruption of the GM court" is even more laughable given how the current GM system came into being in the first place.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Kankou

[Centurius]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1353352007' post='3054583']
Several things on Triyun's comment:

1. Sarah had been in Africa, except for various reason that particular nation just died without much sound.
2. Now bringing over characters is OOC? Wow, I never knew that having natural political development or just having characters immigrate is automatically OOC.
3. My RP with who?


More importantly: Did you people have to mention me or state definitely false statements? I'm content to just sit back and enjoy this small show of hypocrisy, but it seems despite some people always going "leave me alone", they wouldn't leave others alone. That's even more hypocritical than anything related to this AUP thing. Of course, the entire "corruption of the GM court" is even more laughable given how the current GM system came into being in the first place.
[/quote]

Can't help it you're the perfect example for everything wrong in CNRP.

[Kankou]

I'm pretty sure if I was everything wrong, the GM court would still be appointed by the mods. But that's an inconvenient truth.

[Triyun]

I'm referring to a guy named Shirakame (a Japanese name) being the representative you're sending to Patrick as well as having Akeiko magically move to Quebec. Nobody's former characters are all living in their nation on the other end of the world.

As for the rest of your stuff, it is just further evidence of this butt hurt ends justifies the means OOC attitude that's all too common. Nobody is stopping you from coming to other people and talking to them in a manner thats honest. But from everything at least that I've heard, you approach GMs and basically ask them 'hypotheticals' which just sound like you want to lead them on to your own agenda. Then you don't get your way and you cry victimhood. If you'd simply just be nice and open, and not seem like there were ulterior motives I think you'd find a lot more people receptive. You're just plain mean spirited and think the ends justify the means always.

You guys can try and make things equivalent all you want, but frankly it just seems like its excuses to justify a pathological hatred which seems to exist over a [i]computer game[/i]. If you guys can't see how out of whack that is, and how harmful that is, then I just plain feel sorry for whatever happened in your lives that made you look at the world this way, because its really not shared on the "other side".

[Centurius]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1353354608' post='3054596']
I'm referring to a guy named Shirakame (a Japanese name) being the representative you're sending to Patrick as well as having Akeiko magically move to Quebec. Nobody's former characters are all living in their nation on the other end of the world.

As for the rest of your stuff, it is just further evidence of this butt hurt ends justifies the means OOC attitude that's all too common. Nobody is stopping you from coming to other people and talking to them in a manner thats honest. But from everything at least that I've heard, you approach GMs and basically ask them 'hypotheticals' which just sound like you want to lead them on to your own agenda. Then you don't get your way and you cry victimhood. If you'd simply just be nice and open, and not seem like there were ulterior motives I think you'd find a lot more people receptive. You're just plain mean spirited and think the ends justify the means always.

You guys can try and make things equivalent all you want, but frankly it just seems like its excuses to justify a pathological hatred which seems to exist over a [i]computer game[/i]. If you guys can't see how out of whack that is, and how harmful that is, then I just plain feel sorry for whatever happened in your lives that made you look at the world this way, because its really not shared on the "other side".
[/quote]

Pfft I really do hate you

[Kankou]

1. Ah, you mean Greenland (sorry Patrick, completely forgot you there). Well, given that Shirakime is my National Security Advisor, is that really an issue when Patrick came to me first to ask if he could RP in Greenland, and I'm sending the one person other than the Foreign Minister who would have authority to deal with issues like that? Never mind I don't see people being in outrage at someone like Jeff moving basically all of the important parts of Neo Roma to Canada.

2. I don't cry victim hood, contrary to what you might think, and I lay out my cards (which almost always bite me back like the thing with MO). I'm perhaps the single most honest person here in knowing what I do and knowing when I'm being a hypocrite or not. Furthermore, your "evidence" is just your own interpretation based on your justification of your actions. Also, approaching GMs for what? If you mean asking technical questions which would influence how I develop things, then you're just being delusional in thinking I'm leading them on for my own agenda.



Most importantly..... Supposing my actions are OOC, how does that explain all the preemptive moves by certain others against groups that have not done a single thing, or the internal RPs mentioning "information" which are either speculations based on OOC or just outright godmoding?



I'll be blunt here: Try and pull off OOC BS against me, and I will make sure I will make it not worth your while, even if I have to pull off the same kind of OOC BS to keep you permanently ruined. I've never been one to be afraid of fighting fire with fire.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Kankou

[Zoot Zoot]

For $%&@ sakes, just shut the $%&@ up the !@#$@#$ pair of you. All you two do is !@#$%* and bicker over the same !@#$%^&*. !@#$@#$ stop. Ignore each other, get over yourselves and give your vaginas a !@#$@#$ wash to get the damn sand out of them.