CNRP OOC Thread

[Kaiser Martens]

The bottom line is you can't account for it all. There's no possible way to justify it in relation to the measures established within the rp. i mean to rebuild Germany from utter devastation would have taken many nations many years of gdp worth of direct investment to accomodate.. and that's if they spent all their GDP rebuilding what you had done. Poland alone couldn't have done it. You have absolutely no sense of realism or responsibility pegged to realism when it comes to geo-strategic rp or you would realize this. You seem to have no concept of the value of money and resources and the difficulty it is to get them around the globe. There are so many angles by which your recovery argument fails that to list them all would be a multi-page research paper that I don't want to waste my time on. There's no way you should have the magnitude of influence and power you achieved by now.

Which part of Germany not being devastated utterly didn't you understand. Hello, DID YOU READ MY POST in which I etailed which parts were destroyed? Plus, Germany was destroyed worse than I was in real life and still got back up. You're just typing your own posts reading maybe half of what I've written.

[Lord Frost]

See this is where consistent people like myself can sit back and watch all of you squabble, because I have and always will RP according to my IG stats with the accepted multiplies (x10 soldiers, x100 population, 1 aircraft = squadron, IG navy = RP navy, SoI determines claimable and successfully holdable land, magic is not real).

there are only 2 questions that need answering;

Did anyone oppose the Kaiser during his R&D threads?

&

Is he RPing to his stats and accepted RPs?

[Kaiser Martens]

I don't recall agreeing to it. I don't recall ANYBODY, with the exception of those benefiting directly from you keeping your stats agreeing to it. Rebuilding you only works up to YOUR max Infrastructure. Nothing more, nothing less.

But later Polish infra was added, and it keeps growing.

Plus, there's no way in hell to RP a "static" nation that for many RL years and like half a century of RP years has always the EXACT SAME technology and the EXACT SAME infrastructure, how is that in any way something that makes sense?

[Mirreille]

OOC: Hey even IW was white washed, but this time the white wash was RP'd. Wow, Rping the white wash of a nation. I am not contradicting my self. If I wanted to raise IW up again, I would raise it to my IG stats.

No matter if I was at a fraction of my old strength and on a PZI list of my own choosing.

KM and BR both did a noumber of threads on the war between them(Poland & Prussia), there were a number of other small threads that you all chose to ignore(as did I). There was a nation in Austria, and a few others so those things did happen. So when he says he RPed that I have to agree more with his version.

I'm also not sure what huge amount of relevance it has,since he has Lavo, New Roma, and BR in Nordland as well as others on his side in this war. If this is just about numbers for Greater Nordland can't you just negotiate a compromise?

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Unfortunately Martens, during your building I wasn't around for you to match wits with.. so that I could point out to you the error of your ways. In fact, many of us were not. I was under a radio silence order and adhering to my Alliance's instructions appropriately in game. Sorry I wasn't around to instill some common sense in you about the concepts of realistic limitations and quality roleplay. Not that it seems that it would have helped.

[Triyun]

That is incorrect because after the war when I announced I wouldn't leave and when I reformed Deutschland I made an OOC thread in which basically everyone agreed to have me keep my old stuff simply cause I made RP interesting. If people had said no back then, it wouldn't have happened. But guess what, it did.

I looked for that thread, care for a link?

Furthermore the RPing community is not what it was back then, not everything stays the same. The only poll of the RPing community was the tech sharing one in which an ovewhelming percentage of people voted to regulate or stop tech sharing in general, which at minimum would get rid of your ability to be at your current tech level.

You do not get to set rules, the mods do. I have linked you numerous times to a post by HK-47 asking you to give your own tech level rather than the Greater Nordland merged mess. Your RPing way out of your level of development, and those that wanna have a fair RP are rather fed up. All you are offering in defense is "a couple of my old buddies said it was fine so I don't have to care about what the rest of you think." Which may be fun when its just your buddies in the RP at the time, but thats simply not the case. Your actions are involving the whole of the community, and a good chunk of that community is crying foul. Not for the first time I might add. What is so wrong with you playing the same as everyone else rather than insist you need special treatment?

[Kaiser Martens]

Did anyone oppose the Kaiser during his R&D threads?

Only vent, but he opposes my every move, he's too biased. Some opposed until they were explained how things worked.

Is he RPing to his stats and accepted RPs?

Lets put it this way, people accepted my RP until we either fought IC or conflicted IC or decided OOC that I should not be allowed to be powerful.

[Shadowsage]

But later Polish infra was added, and it keeps growing.

Plus, there's no way in hell to RP a "static" nation that for many RL years and like half a century of RP years has always the EXACT SAME technology and the EXACT SAME infrastructure, how is that in any way something that makes sense?

Agreeing to your version of events already DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. I'd rather see a strict implementation of the rule instead of exceptions in which people such as yourself prosper.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

KM and BR both did a noumber of threads on the war between them(Poland & Prussia), there were a number of other small threads that you all chose to ignore(as did I). There was a nation in Austria, and a few others so those things did happen. So when he says he RPed that I have to agree more with his version.

I'm also not sure what huge amount of relevance it has,since he has Lavo, New Roma, and BR in Nordland as well as others on his side in this war. If this is just about numbers for Greater Nordland can't you just negotiate a compromise?

And I'm sure you read every single RP thread created.. and I'm sure that those nations had sufficient output to completely rebuild Germany from the wreck he made it... *shakes his head*. Right. That's why this argument doesn't work. No one reads every thread.. and the expense and duration of recovery would have been much longer than the time and sums allowed.

[Triyun]

No we did not. Don't make !@#$ up. I've already posted here that we did not and presented links and evidence contrary.

Did anyone oppose the Kaiser during his R&D threads?

&

Is he RPing to his stats and accepted RPs?

If people are not around to oppose his R&D threads I view that as a fundamentally unfair position.

[Justinian the Mighty]

I just wanna point out I rp in real time, with some exceptions.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Only vent, but he opposes my every move, he's too biased. Some opposed until they were explained how things worked.

Lets put it this way, people accepted my RP until we either fought IC or conflicted IC or decided OOC that I should not be allowed to be powerful.

That's funny Kaiser. Thing is you're really good at nesting things where they won't see daylight until people will care and need to have to see them. We can't read every RP.. though many of us would like to. We can only hope people observe some rational limitations on what can and cannot be done on Bob, and you have a horrible track record of.. not doing that.

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: That is !@#$%^&*, Vent, IW wasn't whitewashed, after you quit Sumeragi and me and all involved had to do specific RPs about how to deal with your population since there were drug factories that dumped drugs to make them IW loyal fanatics in the water, so even if IW surrendered we still had to fight or otherwise destroy factories and wait for the people to come to mind, and to this day some locals identify themselves as Wellingtonians, your nation was not Whitewashed.

Yes Km, the fighting the locals was the white washing. I said it was Rp'd.

Btw, I would have said about a RL week after IW failed there were no people calling themselves Wellingtonians, and all IW traces were gone. Thats pretty white wash.

Plus, there's no way in hell to RP a "static" nation that for many RL years and like half a century of RP years has always the EXACT SAME technology and the EXACT SAME infrastructure, how is that in any way something that makes sense?

Its the accepted rules. You cheated from the get go, and now its catching up and you are getting annoyed as now people have had enough of your cheating.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I just wanna point out I rp in real time, with some exceptions.

I tend to RP real time also. It took my ships 3 days to make it to Vanuatuu when I staged my invasion. Most I'm willing to accelerate role play is by 2 or 3 days per day at the most.

[Lord Frost]

If people are not around to oppose his R&D threads I view that as a fundamentally unfair position.

that makes no sense. Of course people were around to oppose them, the question I ask is did anyone actually do it? We all saw the threads. We all watched him R&D. did anyone here actually voice a complaint either ooc or IC?

[LeVentNoir]

that makes no sense. Of course people were around to oppose them, the question I ask is did anyone actually do it? We all saw the threads. We all watched him R&D. did anyone here actually voice a complaint either ooc or IC?

Actually yes, I have opposed many of his RnD links since he rejoint and started cheating.

[JerreyRough]

RL and other likes (Warhammer Online FTW!) sorta get in the way to read every RP. That's why you use your signature so then others don't need to go looking.

If a mod was around, I bet he would a posted by now...

[Kaiser Martens]

I looked for that thread, care for a link?

Furthermore the RPing community is not what it was back then, not everything stays the same. The only poll of the RPing community was the tech sharing one in which an ovewhelming percentage of people voted to regulate or stop tech sharing in general, which at minimum would get rid of your ability to be at your current tech level.

I don't have a link. So, you do admit to being inconsistent, how am I supposed to RP consistently in an inherently inconsistent medium?

For example, look at when Überstein joined, all the "tech" we got is knowledge of the underground bunkers he called "cities", so now we have better bunkers than before.

You do not get to set rules, the mods do. I have linked you numerous times to a post by HK-47 asking you to give your own tech level rather than the Greater Nordland merged mess. Your RPing way out of your level of development, and those that wanna have a fair RP are rather fed up. All you are offering in defense is "a couple of my old buddies said it was fine so I don't have to care about what the rest of you think." Which may be fun when its just your buddies in the RP at the time, but thats simply not the case. Your actions are involving the whole of the community, and a good chunk of that community is crying foul. Not for the first time I might add. What is so wrong with you playing the same as everyone else rather than insist you need special treatment?

It does not make any sense IC!

Do you expect me to magically come up with RPs that explain why the infrastructure decreases and the tech decreased? How does that work? It's nonsensical! I'm not like Botha who just bases 100% of his RP on his nations, down to events, there's no way I can RP the destruction of my nation because NPO is not attacking me in CNRP because it doesn't exist. So should things just magically vanish? Nordland should magically lose all the things it gained? lol.

Plus, don't you realize that everything I do causes controversy? How suspicious is it that someone who causes controversy will be opposed to in this manner? It is many things but not transparent. And additonally, I gave this place a lot of RP, since I've always either invaded things or created things, I've caused more IC action than any other nation, I caused many RPs that made CNRP interesting for some time, so instead of RPing a fun war it all boils down to "you can't build this or that". Instead of enjoying the RP, you made some chicken!@#$ OOC mockery out of it, and let me post another thing, just another show of how my evil tanks could be stopped, I posted it elsewhere but it was ignored:

Why didn't you put heavy antitank mines? Why didn't you equip your troops with newly-designed heavy duty panzerfaust-style weapons? Why didn't you use rockets on my troops? Why didn't you make tank traps? Why didn't you make standalone 125mm+ antitank cannons to entrench them in hidden areas such as bushes where satellites can't see em or with camo so they shoot me from up close? Why didn't you try to use sticky bombs onto the threads? Why didn't you make dragonteeth? Why didn't you use czech hedgehogs? Why didn't you create killzones? Why didn't you develop heavy duty 150mm Tank Destroyers by taking out the turret of your main tank and replacing it for a MUCH STRONGER CANNON plus adding more frontal armor to stop my rounds?

You got scared by my tank? Well, you can stop it. Wars aren't decided in a battle, besides, this is Russia, so what if I destroy most of your stuff at first? This isn't Poland or France, you can set up at least 2 more defensive lines on the way to Moscow, and then even if I did take moscow, who says I could hold it? with massive reinforcements from RUSSIAN and Northern Empire. You're asuming I win the war because I win the first battle.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

that makes no sense. Of course people were around to oppose them, the question I ask is did anyone actually do it? We all saw the threads. We all watched him R&D. did anyone here actually voice a complaint either ooc or IC?

We did not all see the threads. I do not make it my "JOB" to read every single thread post it and let them know if I think it's wrong. That is not my "DUTY". This is a game.. it is not an "OCCUPATION" and I do not expect it to be.

[Shadowsage]

Perhaps consider that he didn't use them because he doesn't cheat by RPing the development of brand-new Defensive Doctrines, works, and weapons in the space of a few days. Unlike somebody posting in this thread. But go ahead, I know you'll just ignore this post.

[Kaiser Martens]

Those doctrines date back to WW2, they're many things but new. Standard equipment can be used for ambushes, every nation has "hidden-capable" small antitank cannons to build nests with, that's ancient tech too. Plus Panzerfaust-like discardable weapons are retardedly easy to develop and make, they could be made within a week really in limited numbers of course.

All the tactics and weapons and idea I used are either WW2 or "modernized versions" of ancient WW2 ideas, it's nothing new, any General who's read any history on war has got to know them IC unless they really did just send some random person to direct.

[Shadowsage]

Or maybe nobody thinks of using outdated World War Two equipment in POST-MODERN DAY. Think of that?

[Lord Frost]

We did not all see the threads. I do not make it my "JOB" to read every single thread post it and let them know if I think it's wrong. That is not my "DUTY". This is a game.. it is not an "OCCUPATION" and I do not expect it to be.

then you can hardly complain. The threads were there, and posted in often by the Kaiser (such blatant violation of the IG stats rule is against my own rping, but im making a point on people complaining about what the kaiser has). Kaiser Martens cant be held responsible if so few, if anyone at all, made a complaint

[Kaiser Martens]

Why wouldn't you? Who doesn't have Artillery and Antitank guns? They're good, they're cheap, they're useful.

Another funny thing is that people show that the war is mixed too much into OOC feelings because for one the Magna-European and Franzharian announcement was close to ignored, even though it essentially says that once the war is over Franzharia is free (Even, free from our influence if they want), so it shows that the true interest is not RP but to mess OOC, and you're not being consistent IC either since nobody cares about the Franzharia they more or less decided to protect.

Also, why didn't you ask OOC about my stuff before hand? Like Saboria did, I TOLD him how to invade us so we could RP a fun war, which it was for the most part.

Edit: The only person that complained consistently was Vent, really

Edited January 3, 2009 by Kaiser Martens

[HK47]

Enough meatbags.

As I have said before on the martens issue, last time this was brought up.

Retconning martens back to a broken nation is retarded at this point and just bad for the game. If you want to give him an exception, then don't complain later on.

Martens - as I said last time, pick some stats so people can actually see what is reasonable for your nation and we don't have this huge fiasco all the time. Remember, as you said somewhat under the most advanced nations, but still fairly advanced. So say something like 8k infra 3k tech. You can play around with that. I realise that you merged and stuff, but the issue here is your nation, not BR's.