King Irwin Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) So I was looking at the rankings today, and realize that I have far less land than the average nation of my strength (NS rank = 396, Land rank = 1561). Is there something I'm missing here? I don't think I've bought any land in over a year, since I am at least getting 200 most months for donation bonuses. Is there any reason to get more than that? I know that land would be a better investment than infrastructure, in terms of purely inflating NS (about $60k per NS point for land vs. $100k per NS point for infra, for my nation right now). However, I'm not very concerned with NS growth, and I'd rather focus on truly growing my nation, since the formula for NS can change at any time. So what else does land do for you? Need 3000 for a couple wonders...but I don't want these wonders for several months yet anyway. Need 1000 for Navy...already have this much, so not a concern. Slight defending ground battle bonus...how slight? is this important? Slight spy counter-operation bonus...again, is this important? +1 Env bonus for having less than 2/1 ration of infra/land...this is the bonus, here, right? Major unhappiness for having less than (??) pop/mile...I can't remember exactly how much, but I have water, so this is very high anyway, and again not a concern. EDIT: Also a small population bonus...a fraction of one citizen per mile though isn't much compared to 10 or so citizens per infra Am I forgetting anything else? And how important do you think those military/spy bonuses are? Edited August 5, 2008 by King Irwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Land gives you a small increase to population, as well. I think the information index tells you what the spy bonus is, not sure about the military one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I like watching my imaginary nation eat up real-life ones on the map page, but I don't suppose that's very high on the list of incentives to buy land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I think more land is always nice, try to drop your infra:land down to 2:1, and you get a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Rupert Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I think more land is always nice, try to drop your infra:land down to 2:1, and you get a bonus. But to get that bonus would require him to buy a huge amount of land. The costs of the land would be prohibitive when compared to the payback period the bonus would need to begin turning a profit. Right now land's still a tough sell unless you're close to having the 2:1 ratio. He's already stated he's not interested in the best reason in his nation's case, the fact that land provides the cheapest NS. And he's stated he's not ready to purchase any of the wonders requiring large amounts of land. If those two things aren't going to induce him to get land, it's hard seeing anything land gives as an advantage at the current time that will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Irwin Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Land gives you a small increase to population, as well. I think the information index tells you what the spy bonus is, not sure about the military one. That's right. I forgot to list that one. However, the population bonus is fairly worthless compared to the respective gains of infrastructure. Infra is several times more worthwhile in this respect. Rupert seems to understand my thoughts precisely. The 2/1 bonus is nice, but it hardly seems like a reason for me to buy another 3000 or so miles of land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyria Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 a navy is a good reason to have at least 1000 land. wonders like the ADP are good reasons to have lots of land. it also impacts spy operations and battle odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Reasons to BUY land? No, there are none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander thrawn Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 (edited) Reasons to BUY land? No, there are none. ^this, now a good way to get land is to be like my friend Tom http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=162635 he got where he was almost entirely through tech raiding, and well land raiding. 9000 land is no small feat and yes he has enveloped the whole planet in his nation! Edited August 5, 2008 by commander thrawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Apparently my land rank is #91. I had no idea it was that high. Anyway, you'll want to maintain a healthy amount of land for naval superiority. If you get knocked below 1k land, which can happen quite fast unless you have at least several thousand miles, you won't be able to purchase navy vessels anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Best to do your land raiding when you can... at the higher NS, there are fewer targets for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codyhogan Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I think more land is always nice, try to drop your infra:land down to 2:1, and you get a bonus. what is that bonus exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Plus one envrionment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Actually depending on your nation land can be more economically responsible than inf. Sure you get more citizens from inf but you pay massive upkeep. For my nation i get like an extra 700 dollars from 10 inf if i put all that money in land i'd get enough citizens to get about 1000 dollars a day. Keep in mind i did these figures a few months ago. -Veritas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 (edited) Actually depending on your nation land can be more economically responsible than inf. Sure you get more citizens from inf but you pay massive upkeep. For my nation i get like an extra 700 dollars from 10 inf if i put all that money in land i'd get enough citizens to get about 1000 dollars a day. Keep in mind i did these figures a few months ago. -Veritas edit never mind I'm retarded, you have 10 levels of infra to pay upkeep for Edited August 8, 2008 by alden peterson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 Ever get in nuclear warfare? 150+(at my rankings i'd say 220+) land gone every single day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygy Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 ^this, now a good way to get land is to be like my friend Tom http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=162635 he got where he was almost entirely through tech raiding, and well land raiding. 9000 land is no small feat and yes he has enveloped the whole planet in his nation! this sounds like your friend tom is a real tough guy. you should point him to my nation, I have quite a lot of land and tech to take. @OP: Land can be valuable for you as long as it is cheap (up to 2,000 miles purchased) and later when more infra is not lucrative any more because the increasing upkeep is eating up the tax from the additional population entirely. At this stage also an ADP Wonder helps a lot. An easy way to get more land cheaply is via donations. Buying some thousand land only to get the 1env-bonus is surely not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Irwin Posted August 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 (edited) Thanks for all the good responses. Yes, I try to donate or buy a donation almost every month. This is why it has never seemed necessary to buy more land beyond that free 200 each month. I just ran some calcs including the bills associated with infra (thanks Veritas and Syzygy...somehow I actually forgot this part!). At my size, it seems infra is still much more profitable than land in terms of daily net income. (by about 300% actually...even though about half of my additional income goes towards bills). What I just found depressing though is that it seems that buying infra will take more than a year for the investment to pay off! And that's still better than land, which will take about 4 years! Of course, this time will be reduced as I keep adding wonders, but stlill...that sucks! Edit: @Mogar: No, thankfully, I have never had to be too concerned with nuclear damage. Edited August 11, 2008 by King Irwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchA Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Here is some data that can be played around with. About a month ago I had some extra money and decided to experiment with various population densities and recorded the data below. Each time it affected the number of Working citizens. The first column is Working citizens and the second column is population density [don't laugh at my small numbers. Small nation]: 2339 - 13.88 2336 - 14.63 2333 - 15.46 2330 - 16.40 2327 - 17.46 2324 - 18.67 2319 - 20.05 2315 - 22.58 2313 - 23.57 2312 - 24.66 2310 - 25.84 The highest number was 1 mile of land per unit of infra and the lowest number was about 1:3. The more Working Citizens you have, the more troops and tanks you can buy. But also, the more Working Citizens you have, the more troops needed to keep out of anarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReIncarnate Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 land is a VERY large factor in counter-espionage operations as it can give the second biggest bonus next to tech e.g both sides have similar numbers, but defender has lots of land attacker: 50 spies 1000 tech 50+50=100 esionage points defender: 50 spies(also maxed) 800 tech 3500 land 50+40+50=140 in this case the defender wins, even if he was in low threat level(140-35=105=win) land is GOOD, you don't pay for upkeep on land either, all the free people "live off the land" and generate pure income. back to our friend tom then, assume he has ADP, then with 9000 land he has gotten 4500 free citizens, even without ADP the same land numbers generate 1800 free citizens, and unless "land tax" is implemented, tom has a nice wave to ride away on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dealmaster13 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) When you get to my point - 12000 infra, 8000 land, land gives you more income per mil spent than buying infra and I can tell you, an infra to land ration of 1.5:1 is pretty small Edited August 16, 2008 by dealmaster13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 When you get to my point - 12000 infra, 8000 land, land gives you more income per mil spent than buying infra and I can tell you, an infra to land ration of 1.5:1 is pretty small I'm at almost exactly 7k purchased land. Land for me is 326k a level. That gets me .5 citizens with the ADP. Infra has to cost you about 7.5 million per level (not ground of 10) before you have more of a benefit from land than infra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygy Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 he is talking about income, not citizens. it can easily be that +100 citizens from new infra are increasing your tax collection a bit, but the increased infra upkeep is eating up that totally, leaving you with +/- 0 profit. Investing the same amount of cash into land may bring you 'only' 20 citizens, but since your upkeep remains at the prior level, these 20 actually bring you more cash. The whole case depends on the nation setup (wonders, trades, improvements, events, environment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylesjl Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) Land is much less easily destroyable then infrastructure (only successful ground battles and nukes can touch it) and it costs no upkeep, which can make it quite ideal in a war for money making when infrastructure is being destroyed wholesale Edited August 19, 2008 by Stylesjl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 why land is useful^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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