firingline Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 2 hours ago, CrinkledStraw said: One side continues to say the person’s name even after being asked not to I offered Lyanna to remove all references to the situation from the forums if she felt it was triggering. Lyanna declined. Again, it's nothing but crocodile tears from you. You guys don't really care about Paul's name being used. If you did, we'd have a productive agreement to take down all the references and move on with life. You just care about cheap political points, and pretending to be the victim here is the best option you've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrinkledStraw Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Weird that you’re wrong again. You were asked not to use the person’s name, it takes nothing away from the situation if you do so, there’s no reason to, and yet you continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 1 minute ago, CrinkledStraw said: Weird that you’re wrong again. You were asked not to use the person’s name, it takes nothing away from the situation if you do so, there’s no reason to, and yet you continue. Respectfully, you need to stop lying. An offer was extended to NG to resolve that concern. NG refused because they wanted to continue complaining about it. Anything to distract from the bullying and personal attacks their sphere is supporting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrinkledStraw Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Again, it’s available for all to see in this thread that you were asked to stop using the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 31 minutes ago, CrinkledStraw said: Again, it’s available for all to see in this thread that you were asked to stop using the name. NG's refusal to condemn personal attacks is, indeed, available for all to see in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Trout Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Who’s having burgers tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonkwo Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 19 minutes ago, Le Trout said: Who’s having burgers tomorrow? I only will if there’s also American cheese available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobwebbyarc6 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 I'm going to have a burger and a beer. Nobody is allowed to say anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Trout Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 16 minutes ago, okonkwo said: I only will if there’s also American cheese available. Only if you bring the drinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Trout Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Just now, cobwebbyarc6 said: I'm going to have a burger and a beer. Nobody is allowed to say anything about it. Well, where’s the invite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 3 hours ago, firingline said: I offered Lyanna to remove all references to the situation from the forums if she felt it was triggering. Lyanna declined. Again, it's nothing but crocodile tears from you. You guys don't really care about Paul's name being used. If you did, we'd have a productive agreement to take down all the references and move on with life. You just care about cheap political points, and pretending to be the victim here is the best option you've got. Everytime I try to ignore you, you bring my name up, stop it, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Mormont Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 6 hours ago, Gh0s7 said: In the interest of a good faith argument. Do you have logs or proof of some kind, of Paul raising the issue with you at or around the time of the situation arising? Seeing his complaint would solidify your argument, and given the identity has already been acknowledged on both sides, there would be no further harm by providing it. It would also diminish FLs claim that you are acting purely out of your own interests and not Pauls. You can redact any additional information comprised in the complaint for the sake of privacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Trout Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 I kinda want a tomahawk steak now that I think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMustaine Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 19 minutes ago, Lyanna Mormont said: So Paul's complaint is that someone is calling him by his displayed name? I have no interest in this dispute anyway, just curious. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gh0s7 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 23 minutes ago, Lyanna Mormont said: That's vague, but it's fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 (edited) 35 minutes ago, paul711 said: Everytime I try to ignore you, you bring my name up, stop it, please. Lyanna is the one who brought it up, not me. Lyanna is also the one who refused my offer to scrub references from this thread. Take it up with her if you have a problem with her using you for political gain. I don't control NG gov's decisions. Edited July 3 by firingline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KameraadLenin Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 Paul asking FL to stop mentioning his name in relation to something IRL is a pretty good example of why context is extremely important in cases like this, and why the lack of context in the random snippets from our server FL has posted is genuinely egregious. what FL has posted here are friends speaking to each other on the NG server about issues they feel comfortable talking to each other about. Whenever someone is no longer comfortable with people poking at a topic with them on our server and want it to stop, that is seen as something to be taken seriously. If an NG member speaks up and would like any member of the server to lay off something they don't appreciate, that is respected. This is something FL has shown difficulty with. but if paul is asking FL to stop, he needs to stop. FL is the one that is trying to make all of this OOC discord stuff a problem, not lyanna or anyone else. Anyone with any level of maturity deals with this by blocking the person, leaving their discord, or removing the person from their discord. What he is trying to do here at this point is ridiculous. I would ask FL that if he wants the distinction between OOC and IC to exist, to at least respect it himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 4 Author Report Share Posted July 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, KameraadLenin said: Absolute horsesh*t It's been a long time since I've seen such a blatantly disingenuous post. To be clear - Paul clearly felt comfortable discussing the subject, since he was the one who brought it into the conversation and repeated it several times in a row practically begging me to respond. Additionally, until this very moment, Paul never once expressed being uncomfortable with the subject, and when I asked privately if the topic upset him, did not respond that he was uncomfortable. And it again raises the question of why NG gov't declined my offer to scrub all references to the incident in this thread. NG claims to be tired of this being discussed publicly, and yet you keep re-litigating it, over and over again, seemingly intentionally drawing attention to it. Quite odd. Quote what FL has posted here are friends speaking to each other on the NG server about issues they feel comfortable talking to each other about. OK, I get it, context is super important and there's two elements here - 1) Friends, 2) Speaking about issues they feel comfortable talking to each other about. 1) From only a few weeks before: Quote [10:26 PM]paul711: I consider you a friend 2) During the incident, Paul repeatedly brought up drinking. Himself. I didn't bring it up, he did. To me. That would certainly imply he was comfortable talking about it. So let's see. Friends speaking to each other, about topics Paul seems comfortable with and is practically begging me to engage on. Please articulate for me why the situation would be any different from my perspective than what I quoted on the NG server. There was a key difference in the context, however, you're right about that. I had publicly embarrassed Lyanna earlier. She was happy to jump on any opportunity to jump down my throat, and saw this as such an opportunity. More importantly, I guess I am confused - you seem very concerned about even the most minor of incidents where someone privately holds discomfort surrounding discussion of a topic they begged others to engage on. It clearly wasn't an intentional personal attack, and I already made clear I immediately reached out to Paul to make sure he was OK and then treaded very carefully on the subject. However, at the same time, your ally intentionally personally attacked someone using past knowledge (not something that party brought into the conversation), and continued even when that person immediately publicly expressed discomfort. It was not unintentional. They never apologized. They then repeated this line of personal attacks again months later. Then directly called somebody 're******'. Then started bringing somebody else's wife into another argument. And I've yet to see a single piece of criticism from you on that front. Strange, isn't it? Almost like you're not acting in good faith and are instead desperately trying to dramatize a trivial issue to draw a moral equivalence with Armen's actions so that you can excuse away protecting him. Edited July 4 by firingline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KameraadLenin Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 (edited) 57 minutes ago, firingline said: However, at the same time, your ally intentionally personally attacked someone using past knowledge (not something that party brought into the conversation), and continued even when that person immediately publicly expressed discomfort. It was not unintentional. They never apologized. They then repeated this line of personal attacks again months later. Then directly called somebody 're******'. Then started bringing somebody else's wife into another argument. And I've yet to see a single piece of criticism from you on that front. 1 hour ago, KameraadLenin said: Anyone with any level of maturity deals with this by blocking the person, leaving their discord, or removing the person from their discord. Instead you decided you wanted to turn personal disputes on discord into an IC issue, and you are getting IC consequences. Edited July 4 by KameraadLenin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 4 Author Report Share Posted July 4 1 minute ago, KameraadLenin said: That's not how Lyanna handled the situation, and it was much less severe than what your ally did. Maybe you should provide that advice internally. It's also notable that NG went from profuse apologies over to OOC attacks to "if you don't like it, just flee that discord, it's on you if you stick around." Finally, I'm still waiting for you to explain how friends speaking to each other about issues they feel comfortable talking to each other about, is different from friends speaking to each other about issues they feel comfortable talking to each other about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KameraadLenin Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 5 minutes ago, firingline said: Maybe you should provide that advice internally. maybe you should listen to my advice externally. like everyone at this point has provided logs of you and armen et al acting to each other on discord in a way that would make anyone older than 12 realise "no actually, I dont want to continue interacting with this person" all of that was just so easily dealt with by: 1 hour ago, KameraadLenin said: Anyone with any level of maturity deals with this by blocking the person, leaving their discord, or removing the person from their discord. Instead, all of you chose not too. You're not some innocent party here my dude, none of you are, but you know what armen did that your circus didnt? He never brought your petty little discord beef in game, you did. You guys attacked CCC in game, no one else. You. Nobody here needs to contact each other outside of these forums, and the actual website. If you really have a serious issue with someone, you are more than able to cut off contact with them. Hell, report them to discord if you really think what is going on is so bad. Once you bring that problem into the game, either the forums of the website, attacking people who are completely uninvolved with your personal issues, attacking them only because you are angry at someone who is playing in the same alliance as them, you have turned that OOC issue into an IC issue, and you incur IC consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 4 Author Report Share Posted July 4 (edited) 9 minutes ago, KameraadLenin said: Instead, all of you chose not too. You're not some innocent party here my dude, none of you are, but you know what armen did that your circus didnt? Yeah. OOC personally attack somebody. It's a key distinction. Quote Nobody here needs to contact each other outside of these forums, and the actual website. Again, a very different message from what your current gov (Lyanna) and your former gov (Stewie) say about these things. What an interesting stance from Non Grata. "If you don't like our sphere's personal attacks, quit Discord." Quote you have turned that OOC issue into an IC issue, As has been standard in CN for years. There's nothing novel or unique here, except in one sphere's outward defense of personal attacks. Previously, you'd at least pretend to apologize and reform yourself. I've already linked to a prior NG thread about personal attacks, and I can also point to this one from your ally. Or this one. There are two very simple facts: 1) IC reprisals for OOC attacks has been established precedent for 15+ years. 2) Non Grata and her allies have a long history of personal attacks, and it appears that still hasn't changed today. Whereas NG would apologize when it threatened their alliance's safety, the more secure they feel the more emboldened they are to ignore or even support personal attacks. Edited July 4 by firingline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KameraadLenin Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 IC consequences for bringing personal disputes into the game has been established for just as long, most of the time y'all would be considered rogues though, and this really is one of those cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted July 4 Author Report Share Posted July 4 8 minutes ago, KameraadLenin said: IC consequences for bringing personal disputes into the game has been established for just as long, most of the time y'all would be considered rogues though, and this really is one of those cases. I don't think anybody here is criticizing "IC consequences". It's not like I didn't think I'd be attacked back. You guys have been circling the wagons around OOC attacks for some time now, contrary to your past claims. I knew you'd attack us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 (edited) Each alliance runs it's own discord. We are defending CCC's right to self-governance. (and *against* OOC wars) If you don't like how CCC runs it's server, feel free to use the block button or 'leave server' button. If the person you don't like comes to *your* server, you can ban them from there. Problem solved. Don't try to start and normalize OOC wars when you can't dictate how others manage their own servers. Edited July 4 by Canik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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