Doom Loves GPA

[White Chocolate]

2 hours ago, Smitty256 said:

 

When did Doombird Doomcave get involved in this? Did they post a DoW or did they just bandwagon onto this war?

No one posted a DoW.  This started from Al deciding to raid.  The next war will probably start that way as well the way things are going.

[Galtian Commune]

5 hours ago, Smitty256 said:

 

When did Doombird Doomcave get involved in this? Did they post a DoW or did they just bandwagon onto this war?

DBDC mobilized two nations in this war in defense of DS. Because, A) Jerdge sold infra to hit DS’ #1 nation, which is our move and had to be responded to, and B) does anyone pass up an opportunity to hit neutrals? 
 

 

in all seriousness, i hope this will allow GPA as a whole to feel more comfortable engaging with the rest of Bob, knowing they have at least one year of peace from the majority of Doomsphere. 

[Krihelion]

Judging from the discourse here, CLAWS has little to no control over the mental midgets they attempt to pull strings for, and just feign at it. 

 

Congratulations, you have done something everyone has done(and better). Ya'll are really living up to the !@#$ tier iteration of doom that everyone thinks you are.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

5 hours ago, Smitty256 said:

 

When did Doombird Doomcave get involved in this? Did they post a DoW or did they just bandwagon onto this war?

 

One or two of their members attacked Jerdge iirc. It should go without saying at this point that any movement from an alliance on Pink team with the word "Doom" in the name means the whole gang are going to get involved if they can. DBDC posted a catch all DoW a while ago for any raids/wars launched by their members to avoid the hassle of posting a formal DoW whenever they choose to hit anyone, I'm guessing that extends to the wider Doomsphere too? If not then it might be worth differentiating themselves as separate entities using the traditional formalities most alliance adhere to- as trivial as they might consider them.

 

People like to avoid formalities where they can nowadays, that spotlight can be quite pesky after-all. Whatever your thoughts on how jerdge and GPA retaliated to the aggressive action against their members, at least they brought it to everyone's attention which likely facilitated this formal ending of hostilities. If no statement was made by GPA then I imagine they would've been rolled repeatedly into nothing much like the fate that has befallen WTF.

 

Swords and pens somethingsomething.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Smitty256]

15 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said:

DBDC mobilized two nations in this war in defense of DS. Because, A) Jerdge sold infra to hit DS’ #1 nation, which is our move and had to be responded to, and B) does anyone pass up an opportunity to hit neutrals? 
 

 

in all seriousness, i hope this will allow GPA as a whole to feel more comfortable engaging with the rest of Bob, knowing they have at least one year of peace from the majority of Doomsphere. 

 

How are you mobilizing in defense of Doom Squad? Doom Wolves and SirWilliam, who is a High Elder in Kashmir, raided GPA. GPA responded by declaring war on Doom Wolves and Kashmir, as was their right. Doom Squad responded by declaring in defense of Doom Wolves? Doombird Doomcave can't declare in DEFENSE of Doom Squad when Doom Squad aggressively declared on GPA. Am I getting this right? This has become so convoluted and ridiculous I can't keep anything straight here. 

Don't give me the "GPA is double our size" crap. GPA is a neutral alliance that hasn't fought in a war in 10+ years. If you can't defeat GPA and force them to surrender then y'all have no business starting wars.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

3 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

Don't give me the "GPA is double our size" crap. GPA is a neutral alliance that hasn't fought in a war in 10+ years. If you can't defeat GPA and force them to surrender then y'all have no business starting wars.

 

Something tells me that this was wrapped up because after 10+ years of not fighting any wars? I imagine a fair few GPA members are oozing with cash and if they dug in for an actual fight it'd cause Doomsphere to start bleeding money pointlessly against a Neutral alliance.

 

Also something to do with optics maybe I dunno

Edited February 11, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Smitty256]

1 minute ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

One or two of their members attacked Jerdge iirc. It should go without saying at this point that any movement from an alliance on Pink team with the word "Doom" in the name means the whole gang are going to get involved if they can. DBDC posted a catch all DoW a while ago for any raids/wars launched by their members to avoid the hassle of posting a formal DoW whenever they choose to hit anyone, I'm guessing that extends to the wider Doomsphere too?

 

People like to avoid formalities where they can nowadays, that spotlight can be quite pesky after-all. Whatever your thoughts on how jerdge and GPA retaliated to the aggressive action against their members, at least they brought it to everyone's attention which likely facilitated this formal ending of hostilities. If no statement was made by GPA then I imagine they would've been rolled repeatedly into nothing much like the fate that has befallen WTF.

 

Swords and pens somethingsomething.

My point is that you can't declare war on an alliance in defense of your ally who aggressively declared war on that alliance. It makes no sense. A catch all DoW also makes no sense. 

[Smitty256]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

Something tells me that this was wrapped up because after 10+ years of not fighting any wars? I imagine a fair few GPA members are oozing with cash and if they dug in for an actual fight it'd cause Doomsphere to start bleeding money pointlessly against a Neutral alliance.

 

Also something to do with optics maybe I dunno

Johnny, out of the 39 members in GPA, 16 of them are in peace mode. Some of them have been in peace mode almost their entire existence. You can't make money in peace mode. The game literally prevents you from making money while in peace mode. Some of them don't even have ANY casualties. 0 casualties! Like a quarter of GPA has less than 100k casualties. 

[Galtian Commune]

1 minute ago, Smitty256 said:

My point is that you can't declare war on an alliance in defense of your ally who aggressively declared war on that alliance. It makes no sense. A catch all DoW also makes no sense. 

We’re already at war with everyone. catch-all means nothing slips through the cracks. 
 

And DBDC defends their allies. It goes without saying. If any of our allies ever need help, we will be there. I don’t care what the circumstances are, we will help where we can. You can pout all you want, it is what it is. 

[Smitty256]

Just now, Galtian Commune said:

We’re already at war with everyone. catch-all means nothing slips through the cracks. 
 

And DBDC defends their allies. It goes without saying. If any of our allies ever need help, we will be there. I don’t care what the circumstances are, we will help where we can. You can pout all you want, it is what it is. 

 

Catch all DoW's don't exist. It just an excuse people use to do literally whatever they want. When they get called out for it, they will hide behind a "catch all DoW". No, that is not how it works. 

[Johnny Apocalypse]

8 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

My point is that you can't declare war on an alliance in defense of your ally who aggressively declared war on that alliance. It makes no sense. A catch all DoW also makes no sense. 

 

Hey I'm not disagreeing with that line of thinking, I just lack the means to do anything about it.

 

Also historically speaking; NSO set a precedent with the Moldavi Doctrine which served as a catch-all ODoAP for whatever cause they considered to be just. They did at least post formal DoW's with their reasoning whenever invoking that though.

 

5 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

Johnny, out of the 39 members in GPA, 16 of them are in peace mode. Some of them have been in peace mode almost their entire existence. You can't make money in peace mode. The game literally prevents you from making money while in peace mode. Some of them don't even have ANY casualties. 0 casualties! Like a quarter of GPA has less than 100k casualties. 

 

Maybe it was just the bad PR then? This is the first time in a while a Neutral alliance got swarmed and hostilities were formally recognised by that alliance- which got the attention of anyone bothering to still pay attention. Like I said; maybe they decided it was prudent to not have the spotlight in their faces and their resources could be better saved for bigger fish?

 

I'm just spitballing here.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Galtian Commune]

6 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

 

Catch all DoW's don't exist. It just an excuse people use to do literally whatever they want. When they get called out for it, they will hide behind a "catch all DoW". No, that is not how it works. 

Then respond to our very public DoW on your alliance. Please.
 

We provided very limited military aid (two nations) to an ally. It goes to show how dead Bob is that people think any small action deserves an OWF post. 

[Smitty256]

1 minute ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

Hey I'm not disagreeing with that line of thinking, I just lack the means to do anything about it.

 

Also historically speaking; NSO set a precedent with the Moldavi Doctrine which served as a catch-all ODoAP for whatever cause they considered to be just. They did at least post formal DoW's with their reasoning whenever invoking that though.

 

 

Maybe it was just the bad PR then? This is the first time in a while a Neutral alliance got swarmed and hostilities were formally recognised by that alliance which got the attention of anyone bothering to still pay attention. Like I said; maybe they decided it was prudent to not have the spotlight in their faces and their resources could be better saved for bigger fish?

 

I'm just spitballing here.

 

The Moldavi Doctrine is literally the worst thing to happen to CN. People get it in their heads that they can just do whatever the f*ck they want under the guise of "this is what I believe is just at this very moment even though I might feel different in 5 minutes". Catch all DoW's don't exist. When people use catch all DoW's, they declare and join in a war that they have no business being part of and then when they get called out for their actions they hide behind this mythical catch all DoW. Ivan Moldavi is the epitomy of this. 

I am not going to speak for GPA here since I am not, nor do I want to be, part of GPA. They had every right to declare on Doom Wolves and Kashmir. Doom Squad and Doombird Doomcave had no right to declare on GPA for doing the atrocious act of defending themselves. How dare GPA not just lie down and take it. How dare they!!

[Galtian Commune]

3 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

 

The Moldavi Doctrine is literally the worst thing to happen to CN. People get it in their heads that they can just do whatever the f*ck they want under the guise of "this is what I believe is just at this very moment even though I might feel different in 5 minutes". Catch all DoW's don't exist. When people use catch all DoW's, they declare and join in a war that they have no business being part of and then when they get called out for their actions they hide behind this mythical catch all DoW. Ivan Moldavi is the epitomy of this. 

I am not going to speak for GPA here since I am not, nor do I want to be, part of GPA. They had every right to declare on Doom Wolves and Kashmir. Doom Squad and Doombird Doomcave had no right to declare on GPA for doing the atrocious act of defending themselves. How dare GPA not just lie down and take it. How dare they!!

War is war. The point is to win. What’s the point of having friends if they don’t help you win. Why be part of a family if they leave you out to dry all by yourself? Question Kashmir and DW’s motives all you want, but i don’t know why you’re attacking DS and DBDC for aiding allies 

[Smitty256]

28 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said:

Then respond to our very public DoW on your alliance. Please.
 

We provided very limited military aid (two nations) to an ally. It goes to show how dead Bob is that people think any small action deserves an OWF post. 

I speak for myself and only myself except when I'm speaking on behalf of FTW.

 

If you want an official statement from FTW then speak to Dark Lord Sauron or Velocity.

 

DLS and Velocity's business hours are the following:
Monday: 13:00 - 13:01

Tuesday - Sunday: Closed to the public

My business hours are the following:

Monday: 14:00 - 14:01

Tuesday - Sunday: Closed to the public

 

Thank you for your visit and we hope that you come again soon!

Edited February 11, 2022 by Smitty256

[Johnny Apocalypse]

3 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said:

Then respond to our very public DoW on your alliance. Please.
 

We provided very limited military aid (two nations) to an ally. It goes to show how dead Bob is that people think any small action deserves an OWF post. 

 

Ain't much fodder to post about nowadays so we take what we can get around here, at least until someone kicks something off that properly destroys the planet for good.

 

Just now, Smitty256 said:

 

The Moldavi Doctrine is literally the worst thing to happen to CN. People get it in their heads that they can just do whatever the f*ck they want under the guise of "this is what I believe is just at this very moment even though I might feel different in 5 minutes". Catch all DoW's don't exist. When people use catch all DoW's, they declare and join in a war that they have no business being part of and then when they get called out for their actions they hide behind this mythical catch all DoW. Ivan Moldavi is the epitomy of this. 

I am not going to speak for GPA here since I am not, nor do I want to be, part of GPA. They had every right to declare on Doom Wolves and Kashmir. Doom Squad and Doombird Doomcave had no right to declare on GPA for doing the atrocious act of defending themselves. How dare GPA not just lie down and take it. How dare they!!

 

I disagree, I think any alliance reserves the right to defend or join in on acts of aggression at their own discretion  (though I'd personally find it more enjoyable if people put a bit of effort into those actions by way of fashioning a public narrative, instead of silently womping people indiscriminately and hoping no one else notices). Just because you don't have a treaty with a dull and uninspired name doesn't exclude you from having diplomatic relations with another alliance and providing assistance to them in the manner of your choosing, the Moldavi Doctrine streamlines things and does away with a lot of the pointless paperwork and "line drawing" posturing everyone is so accustomed to. I reserve the right to defend anyone I please at any given time, it's called having sovereignty. I choose not to let my actions be dictated by too much legalese jargon which is one of the main culprits responsible for the political inertia on this planet.

 

I know that playing 'treaty chess' is all that some people have known/will ever know, but it'd be nice if people at least tried to think outside of the box for once.

[Galtian Commune]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

I reserve the right to defend anyone I please at any given time, it's called having sovereigntyl

[Galtian Commune]

For once i agree with JA. 

[Smitty256]

3 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said:

War is war. The point is to win. What’s the point of having friends if they don’t help you win. Why be part of a family if they leave you out to dry all by yourself? Question Kashmir and DW’s motives all you want, but i don’t know why you’re attacking DS and DBDC for aiding allies 

 

If DS and DBDC want to provide financial support to their allies, then by all means, go for it. I don't care. That is what allies do. If they want to declare war on GPA then don't do it under the guise of "we are defending our allies!". You wouldn't be defending your allies if your allies are the ones that started the damn war. That is my point. If GPA aggressively attacked DW and Kashmir then we would be having a different converation.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

Just now, Galtian Commune said:

For once i agree with JA. 

 

As the saying goes; we were once 'birds of a feather' once upon a time. Still, I bet it makes you feel kinda gross

2 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

 

If DS and DBDC want to provide financial support to their allies, then by all means, go for it. I don't care. That is what allies do. If they want to declare war on GPA then don't do it under the guise of "we are defending our allies!". You wouldn't be defending your allies if your allies are the ones that started the damn war. That is my point. If GPA aggressively attacked DW and Kashmir then we would be having a different converation.

 

 

Smitty this is standard spin in any given combat scenario. The aggressor will always argue they were defending an ally and the defender will always argue the aggressor has no case for their aggression even if it is ironclad. You can't win this kind of argument by deferring to logic or the objective reality of whether or not "he started it!" - There's nothing charismatic or convincing in that approach.

[Galtian Commune]

3 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

 

If DS and DBDC want to provide financial support to their allies, then by all means, go for it. I don't care. That is what allies do. If they want to declare war on GPA then don't do it under the guise of "we are defending our allies!". You wouldn't be defending your allies if your allies are the ones that started the damn war. That is my point. If GPA aggressively attacked DW and Kashmir then we would be having a different converation.

“Definition of aid

 (Entry 1 of 3)

transitive verb

: to provide with what is useful or necessary in achieving an endaid a causeaid a friend

intransitive verb

: to give assistance“

 

Aid is assistance. Nowhere is it stated that aid may only be applied as a defensive measure. Nowhere is it stated that aid may only be given in terms of money. 

[Smitty256]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

Smitty this is standard spin in any given combat scenario. The aggressor will always argue they were defending an ally and the defender will always argue the aggressor has no case for their aggression even if it is ironclad. You can't win this kind of argument by deferring to logic or the objective reality of whether or not "he started it!" - There's nothing charismatic or convincing in that approach.

 

It is stupid though. You can't just change the definition when it suits your needs. I will always defer to logic on this because it is what makes the most sense. Sorry for trying to have some order and stability in this world. 

[Johnny Apocalypse]

4 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

 

It is stupid though. You can't just change the definition when it suits your needs. I will always defer to logic on this because it is what makes the most sense. Sorry for trying to have some order and stability in this world. 

 

Yes you can, you just need to know how to wield a pen and give yourself a good amount of creative license. Besides, I was agreeing that alliances making formal DoW's was the preferred thing as far as I'm concerned. If alliances don't adhere to those formalities; what's stopping someone else from making that announcement and staking the first claim the to the narrative?

 

I'll let you figure that one out.

[White Chocolate]

8 hours ago, Galtian Commune said:

 

And DBDC defends their allies. It goes without saying. If any of our allies ever need help, we will be there. I don’t care what the circumstances are, we will help where we can. You can pout all you want, it is what it is. 

This is the important part.  Thank you.

[jerdge]

DS and then DBDC evidently joined to help their allies and to get some action, maybe also to loot something (The DBDC people didn't loot anything and they probably knew it well in advance).

They called it "defence", I see the point in challenging that choice of words but ultimately what matters is that alliances are free to do whatever they want and to call it however they want: what happens on the ground, and the consequences of it, matter more than the label slapped onto them.

(In this specific case war was effectively recognized when me and Bundy found ourselves agreeing, in a private chat, that we were at war with each other. The GPA public recognition of hostilities came after that. Anyone can do whatever they want with this piece of information.)

 

The GPA retains some capacity to defend itself, some of us indeed have a significant amount of money and enough stubbornness to use it.

Just so that the next time people won't need to do spy ops to find the "obvious", my nation for one has enough money to fight until the lights of Bob go off,  however far in the future that may happen.

I don't however think that any of this influenced anyone's decisions, I imagine that our opponents didn't want to keep us in a prolonged fight we were not interested into, mainly because at this point everyone knows everyone, and nobody wants to be too dickish towards their neighbors/acquaintances/friends. Also, they're not that active either, they could definitely do something else with their time.

 

I agree with JA that the general entertainment would benefit from stuff being properly announced, however most of us don't see the point anymore / are lazy/uninterested... it is what it is.

 

Last but not least, Neutral Menace ITT.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by jerdge
typos, clarity