Markus Wilding Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Ulyanovsk. Yak-44 AWACS I've taken the time to look over this, and given the current rules, I would have to deny this based on the fact that it never entered service with the Soviet Navy, or any navy in fact. Same with the Yak-44s, except these are totally improbable given our rules. As a general rule of thumb unless the community says otherwise, if it never made it into active service, then it cannot be used. If you REALLY want to use these in RP, I would recommend making them optional canon and use, as you stated yourself, a Charles de Gaulle as a substitute for those that don't wish to recognize it. Other GMs may agree or disagree, mileage may vary. Please drink responsibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Two spy rolls please: Each will represent a mole on the inside of the Japanese Military apparatus who will leak information about the black flag operation against Shanghai to the public if revealed. Imperium Leaks.com is about to begin if successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 My understanding so far that it is your territory and your forces in the field.. such as navy, army formations, and air force forward deployments, thus why I am seeking clarification on how the coverage mechanic works. If I have an OTH that can operate at 5000km and provide targetting is that considered an SDI extension platform?Otherwise if your navy is out in the field I could drop a nuke on it and you couldn't stop it.. or if your army was in the field of an allied territory.. or if your airforce was at an allied airbase that had no sdi. The SDI is fictional, so there really isn't a right or wrong answer. I think if you have a significant military or civilian presence somewhere and someone is shooting a nuke at you, you should get to roll against that nuke if you have an SDI and someone else hasn't already made a roll against it. Ty and Markus have not been consulted re: this post, but that's the only way I can see it being handled to where it can't be lawyered into absurdity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) So if I have a military presence in my allies regions as part of a joint treaty organization my SDI could protect the area as my forces are also present? Kind of like US is missile shielding NATO? Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Two spy rolls please:Each will represent a mole on the inside of the Japanese Military apparatus who will leak information about the black flag operation against Shanghai to the public if revealed. Imperium Leaks.com is about to begin if successful. 1-70 is pass71-100 is fail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Woo! Imperium Leaks is a thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Nevermind clicking this topic this took me to a really old post and i replied to it. Edited August 16, 2014 by Beauty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I consider that to be RPing my citizens, as there is absolutely no prior RP of him having a spy, and I destroyed all data regarding the false flag operations and anyone who would know about it is in isolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) It's not your citizen.. it's one of my several hundred spies worldwide in the wild! Except that you only posted the 50 SOLDIERS as being in debriefing! Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 In total less than 50 Imperium soldiers would be involved in the charade, and they were immediately debriefed and kept in isolation for at least the next two months to ensure that no large mouths would compromise the mission. Not a single edit. 30 spec ops, a dozen guys to pretend to get blown up, and the assorted bureaucracy required to orchestrate such an action which would include the secretaries, the comms guys organizing the thing for the Generals responsible for it, etc, seems like a realistic number for a black flag operation, especially one that was not supported fully by the entire military. With zero prior RP his rolls set the precedent that I can flip a coin and find out the inner workings of any nation I choose when it lands on heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Me giving you the benefit of the doubt on having done the roll correctly doesn't mean you get to magically have a complex spy ring in Mogar's military at the highest levels. Your spy rolls were successful, but I doubt that post is gonna fly as-is. I'm going to hold off on saying anything further until Markus and Ty can log on and provide input and my suggestion would be to hold off on RPing further until that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) We'll stall.I just want to mention that my cia and spies work around the world all the time. At least, I consider them to. As Mogar said in chat, "that's how it works in rl". I am simply activating one of mine. I see my rolls, which take into account our ig statistics, as being fully indicating the success of her defenses, even those rp'd out, against my agent. Clearly with two consecutive failures of those defenses and the risk that it engenders to try to spy like that, that the magnitude of the success I posted would be appropriate. hIS soldiers trusted someone to eliminate their tracks, to cover their data, clearly either that person or a person close to that person.. aka, my agent Zeta, didn't do that. Mogar said i didn't rp any prior espionage to this, but I have a cia. I have spies. All our nations do. I have some time to rp on here daily, it's not much. I post what I can. I'm already having to deal with the bureaucracy of having to rp for each territorial acquisition. I took the risk, I think I deserve the reward. And if I had failed, I'd have had my agent die or be captured, didn't happen. Speaking of which. I would like to suggest a community vote on failure results for espionage attempts be considered a success of the espionage ring of the enemy and giving them the authority to rp out the nature of the failure so long as it is in context and relevant to the event. I clearly stated in my attempts I was activating a mole. In a failure, Mogar probably would have identified the origin of, and then killed or.. interrogated.. or turned double agent *shudder*.. agent Zeta. Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 That has never been how spy rolls have worked in any RP game I have ever played, the concept and the actual consequences are staggering to what allowing rolls to work the way you are suggesting they should, since you essentially are stating you can turn anyone you'd like in another nation into your citizen and under your control. I have a CIA, I have 800 spies, does that mean I can simply make a spy roll against you and have a 50/50 chance of having intimate knowledge of your entire military's operations? or fake documents proving your leader is an alien, or a habitual drug user, or whatever I say really, so long as I picked heads and the coin cooperated I would suggest that you actually look at previous spy rolls in this very thread, while not all of them actually had links to them, every single one had some level of prior RP, which you didn't feel you needed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) If you wanted to do that and start a spy war with me.. sure. Go ahead. My solution is simply to rotate my protocols. Your information might be good for an hour.Your problem in this situation is that you're talking about a specific incident that your nation thoroughly documented so your black flag propaganda could succeed. I am not revealing every military secret you have. Just the one around this operation. It's a counter espionage action. No different than the good old US had happen to it in rl. Wikileaks.. meet Imperiumleaks. Imperiumleaks, meet wikileaks. Feel free to start drukyulleaks. Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 except for the fact that you had no prior assests to be able to run a counter espionage action, had you made spy rolls to put a high ranking mole into my military command and THEN made a spy roll like you did? I would have no issues with it, but since there is no prior RP of this, it is highly unrealistic you would have one of the half dozen people who were in the know of the full operation on payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Wrong wrong wrong wrong. I have so many assets you only have a 30% chance of resisting me. I made TWO successful rolls, what more do you want? I have a cia and intelligence centers I pay for daily. There's plenty of rp, it's just part of Druk Yul existence. It is inherent to what it is. Are we actually going to let these rolls actually mean something or not? Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm not going to let them mean anything, and I am thinking that even those who dislike me will agree it's absolutely absurd to think you can just have a mole everywhere all the time, always in the exact place you require one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Not if you make two successful rolls for one attempt. Mogar. You want your cake and to eat it to. You did practically the same to Jesbro. What little rp did you do to get your spec ops ready for this? A post to get your military into macau? Can I just black flag you then at any time across the border in the Malay peinsula? I mean I hate to have to call you on this but I'm just getting a lot of hypocrisy here. You only want the system to work for you.. when you want it to. And you're complaining almost childishly that I had the bright idea to actually leak your op instead of rolling with it like Jesbro has your black flag. You're having to exaggerate your argument and take it out of the context of what happens in order for it to even make sense, "Maelstrom's rp has to be voided because if it is true he can reveal anyone's entire military database to the whole world..." "Maelstrom's RP has to be avoided because if it's not he can be anyone, anywhere, at any time." I'm literally countering.. directly.. this one op with a planted mole. I'm not trying to reveal all your military secrets. I'm not trying to say I can be anyone anywhere because I can't... I'll fail against some people and I don't want to offend them. But in this case, I was willing to take that risk because I didn't care if Japan caught Zeta. Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 for a more detailed description of what my spy rolls were 1) get a spec ops team into shanghai undetected and onto a military base 2) steal the tanks and get back to the border before Shanghai was blow up said tanks nowhere in that am I stating that a Shanghai citizen is assisting me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) [05:22] <+Mogar> a spy roll to plant the agent into the Imperium [05:22] <+Mogar> a spy roll to falsify documents to make them an Imperium citizen [05:23] <+Mogar> a spy roll to make them a pretend military agent, or go through basic I suppose [05:23] <+Mogar> a spy roll to happen to get her assigned to the particular general responsible [05:23] <+Mogar> and this is just a basic list [05:23] <+Mogar> I'm sure if i asked voodoo or someone else the realistic steps it would take it will probably be 8-10 [05:26] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> We'll see. [05:26] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> If so I want you to make 6 spy rolls then for your op against jesbro [05:27] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> One to get into Shanghai undetected. One to steal the tank undetected, one to return to the imperium undetected, one not to be spotted by border patrols, one not to be detected by motion sensors. [05:27] <+Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]> I can play your ridiculous game of artificial hurdles as well. Just saying. You're trying to make this much harder than it needs be and your demands are unreasonable for a game of light RP with some rules, rolls, and some stats to serve as guidance. Truth is you just want me to fail, but I didn't. Now deal with please. You want a spy roll for every part of the operation? Okay? I want one for your black flag as well. One for each post like you would demand of me. One for actually finding your border crossings into Shanghai that were of quality that you could perpetuate the attack. One to get your troops into position without being detected.. and then one for the final op so that you pull it off correctly. You only have one set. We need 4 more if you want to apply the rule this way. If you do it, I'll do it. I only want equal treatment under the rules. My being able to leak your stuff and have my spy in position.. is no more absurd than you stealing a tank from a foreign military base.. and then using that tank to attack yourself undetected using 50 people. Edited August 16, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Truth is you are not following the same rules I did, and if required I would make 5 spy rolls for my operation to be a success, where you simply want your instant gratification instead of acknowledging that having a high level mole would require some effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I suggest as a solution to this.. we let Mogar attempt to counter my leak with 2 spy rolls of her own as a counter-spy attempt. If she succeeds even once, Zeta gets captured. If she succeeds twice, she can stop Zeta completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I suggest we wipe the RP since it is utterly ridiculous to have that high level of a mole without prior RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I suggest we wipe the RP since it is utterly ridiculous to have that high level of a mole without prior RP. That really seems fair given your rp was about as threadbare as mine for your black flag. But I've already made that point. I'm going quiet and let them figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I was referring to yours, not the thread itself. My spy rolls I can at least link to two posts that would assist in mine, no magical moles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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