Imperial Decree

[Oranges]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1357863256' post='3074243']
Treaties represent the formalization of an agreement between the two parties. They are a contract between two (sometimes more) alliances. They are not a contract between those alliances and the world. Sovereign alliances ALWAYS have the absolute right to wage war. So your comment is kind of silly.
[/quote]

And the Just War theory? Sovereign alliances have the right to wage war, that is true. But it must be legitimate war, justified reasons, a Just War. If there was an absolute right to wage war without a legitimate reasoning, then by your reasoning, for example, the NPO would be completely justified launching war on literally any alliance out there for no reason at all. No. You are wrong.

[MitchellBade]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1357845922' post='3074041']
do it... DO IT! Let your !@#$%* nation be burnt into dust, I beg you



Gotta love the Indotards running around here whining that we couldn't handle them! Here's news for you: an aid bomb by NEW means retaliation. Otherwise we'd probably have couped Rayvon for letting a clear attack go unnoticed.

You're welcome BFF; now you've got some time to kick some rationality back into your Indo friends, but that's gotta be as tough as winning the lottery .
[/quote]

And the aid bomb by Shangri-La was expected to go unanswered? Who is the tard now? Also, per your request, Rayvon will not be allowed to limp away into PM just yet

Edited January 11, 2013 by MitchellBade

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357867327' post='3074289']
And the Just War theory? Sovereign alliances have the right to wage war, that is true. But it must be legitimate war, justified reasons, a Just War. If there was an absolute right to wage war without a legitimate reasoning, then by your reasoning, for example, the NPO would be completely justified launching war on literally any alliance out there for no reason at all. No. You are wrong.
[/quote]

The ironing is delicious.

-Craig

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357867430' post='3074292']
And the aid bomb by Shangri-La was expected to go unanswered? Who is the tard now? Also, per your request, Rayvon will not be allowed to limp away into PM just yet
[/quote]
I see that you're a man who sticks by his friends, even if it does take a week or two to get there.

I'll eat my hat now, my apologies.

[Oranges]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357867430' post='3074292']
And the aid bomb by Shangri-La was expected to go unanswered? Who is the tard now? Also, per your request, Rayvon will not be allowed to limp away into PM just yet
[/quote]

It seems you don't quite understand the concept of a treaty, or legitimacy.

Then again, you don't really seem to quite understand the concept of civilised behaviour, given that you've just changed your nation AA to Kaskus and have declared war on an NSO nation and an NPO nation.

[sigelopisan]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1357857358' post='3074135']
You forgot to say how they have been trying to get Kaskus to realize this and to end the conflict without having to fight Kaskus itself too much. That they have been trying to make Kaskus do what is right and once they had their previously agreed to 3 rounds with UnknownSmurf(the agreement was with US) to end the hostilities. Kaskus' egos became inflated because they felt they were doing so well, not realizing that NSO was not hitting them as hard as they could have trying to avoid crippling nations. My Indo brothers have been duped by an outsider and at some point I have to assume realized this and said screw it. They deserve every lump they get.
[/quote]

Very sad that this is coming from you, TPF.

Its either you don't know the relation between TPF and NEW or you are a complete retard.

I'm very sad and regret that I have defended you both in war and politics.

[MitchellBade]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1357868116' post='3074303']
I see that you're a man who sticks by his friends, even if it does take a week or two to get there.

I'll eat my hat now, my apologies.
[/quote]

Blame NPO, and by no means eat your hat sir, there must be better edibles around.

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357868291' post='3074307']
Then again, you don't really seem to quite understand the concept of civilised behaviour, given that you've just changed your nation AA to Kaskus and have declared war on an NSO nation and an NPO nation.
[/quote]

My nation has gone to Hell and back on numerous occasions for Pacifica, so I find it only fitting to repay my debt in Pacifican blood. Besides, the NPO target I hit is actually a friend of mine and he'll likely get a chuckle out of this once he realizes what has happened. Now bite your tongue.

[Oranges]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357868966' post='3074320']
My nation has gone to Hell and back on numerous occasions for Pacifica, so I find it only fitting to repay my debt in Pacifican blood. Besides, the NPO target I hit is actually a friend of mine and he'll likely get a chuckle out of this once he realizes what has happened. Now bite your tongue.
[/quote]

Ah bih mah tong. Happeh?

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='sigelopisan' timestamp='1357868300' post='3074309']
Very sad that this is coming from you, TPF.

Its either you don't know the relation between TPF and NEW or you are a complete retard.

I'm very sad and regret that I have defended you both in war and politics.
[/quote]
Believe it or not, that dude is now TPF's leader.

And I wouldn't stress about it if I were you, they were always a !@#$%* alliance.

e: And yes, if you had read the thread about MK over in World Affairs, you'd already have realised that he's a complete moron.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[berbers]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1357866722' post='3074283']

This part isn't directed at me, is it? I can't recall using any sort of slur against the Indonesians...

-Craig
[/quote]

No, I edited it in afterwards when I seen a few more posts, nothing to do with you at all, sorry

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357867430' post='3074292']
And the aid bomb by Shangri-La was expected to go unanswered? Who is the tard now? Also, per your request, Rayvon will not be allowed to limp away into PM just yet
[/quote]

that aid bomb was indeed an act of war that any ally of Kaskus could have responded to (like GOD perhaps? that's their only official treaty), Just like the NEW one was. Such things required a response, not that you really care about reality. Just continue your !@#$ posting.

p.s. deal with these Indonesians long enough and you'll come to the same conclusion. Hint: it's not a language barrier.

[Max Power]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1357863256' post='3074243']
Treaties represent the formalization of an agreement between the two parties. They are a contract between two (sometimes more) alliances. They are not a contract between those alliances and the world. Sovereign alliances ALWAYS have the absolute right to wage war. So your comment is kind of silly.

-Craig
[/quote]
This exactly, plus the version of it Muddog said earlier in the thread. Treaties restrict, not create, freedom. If you have a problem with someone else's offensive action, counter.

[Duke Nukem]

Mastabadey has now joined Kaskus and attacked the NSO and the NPO, he is therefore slated for death by our Order.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357867327' post='3074289']
And the Just War theory? [/quote]

Sadly relatively few of us adhere to it here. It kind of got a bad name after the extended mockery your own group made of it, way back in the last age.

[quote]Sovereign alliances have the right to wage war, that is true. But it must be legitimate war, justified reasons, a Just War. [/quote]

Nah. They have a right to wage unjust wars too. It's just easier, or rather should be easier, to organise resistance to those. Again, the current state of Bob may be even worse.

[quote]If there was an absolute right to wage war without a legitimate reasoning, then by your reasoning, for example, the NPO would be completely justified launching war on literally any alliance out there for no reason at all. No. You are wrong.
[/quote]

Not completely justified, no. But within your sovereign rights to do so and face the consequences.

Whether or not those consequences are sufficient to dissuade the action, that is the real question. Justice is not dead but I fear she may be a bit lame and sore at this stage of the game.

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1357871307' post='3074364']
that aid bomb was indeed an act of war that any ally of Kaskus could have responded to (like GOD perhaps? that's their only official treaty),
[/quote]

Assuming it clearly was an aid bomb and there is no other explanation consistent with the facts (an assumption too often made in error in the past) then that is true. One way any concerned alliance might respond would be to respond in kind with a counter-aid bomb. Did anyone do that?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Oranges]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1357871947' post='3074377']
Nah. They have a right to wage unjust wars too. It's just easier, or rather should be easier, to organise resistance to those. Again, the current state of Bob may be even worse.

Not completely justified, no. But within your sovereign rights to do so and face the consequences.

Whether or not those consequences are sufficient to dissuade the action, that is the real question. Justice is not dead but I fear she may be a bit lame and sore at this stage of the game.
[/quote]

Consequences are sufficient to police the actions of alliances. As long as there are consequences for illegitimate action, then there is the need for legitimacy. And, as you yourself have stated, this does exist in the Planet Bob of today. So there is no "absolute right". Alliances can wage war as they see fit, yes, but they do not do so in a vacuum. And hence, Just War.

[youwish959]

RogalDorn, I think you can go ahead and update this to a victory.

[MitchellBade]

[quote name='Duke Nukem' timestamp='1357871945' post='3074376']
Mastabadey has now joined Kaskus and attacked the NSO and the NPO, he is therefore slated for death by our Order.
[/quote]

[i]mastabadey takes off a glove and slaps WANA in the face[/i]

A duel we shall have!

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1357872728' post='3074392']
RogalDorn, I think you can go ahead and update this to a victory.
[/quote]

Shedding nearly twice as much strength as your opponent and calling it a victory? Stay off the bath salts my friend.

Edited January 11, 2013 by MitchellBade

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Already? No lunch for me this time..... gah.. *stomach rumbles*

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Duke Nukem' timestamp='1357871945' post='3074376']
Mastabadey has now joined Kaskus and attacked the NSO and the NPO, he is therefore slated for death by our Order.
[/quote]

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=437371

Oh the horror! Look at all those wonders accumulated in 750 days!

[youwish959]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357872802' post='3074393']
Shedding nearly twice as much strength as your opponent and calling it a victory? Stay off the bath salts my friend.
[/quote]
[url=http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~jenolive/percent1.html]This should interest you[/url]

[Duke Nukem]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1357872970' post='3074398']
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=437371"]http://www.cybernati...ation_ID=437371[/url]

Oh the horror! Look at all those wonders accumulated in 750 days!
[/quote]

I should probably just surrender now and pack my bags and go home. No way in hell I can win this guys!

[Oranges]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357872802' post='3074393']
Shedding nearly twice as much strength as your opponent and calling it a victory? Stay off the bath salts my friend.
[/quote]

The analogy has been made previously; if it were only ever about the absolute amount of nation strength lost, then every nuclear rogue ever was completely victorious against their opposition.

The fact is, relative to their pre-war size, NSO has lost less relative nation strength than Kaskus. More nation strength also means you have more to lose.

Which would you say has lost more, a nation that goes from 10k nation strength to 5k, or a nation that goes from 100k to 93k? Which nation do you think is hurt worse, a nation that has lost 50% of it's nation strength (hint: this one), or a nation that's lost 7% of it's nation strength (hint: not this one)?

Stop skipping maths classes, people.

[Lord Bit]

Mastabadey is now Kaskus, and has our full protection.

Which would you say has lost more, a nation that goes from 10k nation strength to 5k, or a nation that goes from 100k to 93k? Which nation do you think is hurt worse, a nation that has lost 50% of it's nation strength (hint: this one), or a nation that's lost 7% of it's nation strength (hint: not this one)?

But if you had 6 lemons, and someone took 3, you would have 50% of what you had before, and if you had 4 oranges and that someone took 1 you would have 75% of what you had. And another guy had 7 pinapples (this is where it gets tricky) and that same person took 2 the guy would have 71.5% of the pinapples of before, follow so far.
Now the guy with 50% of your oranges, 25% of your lemons and 28.5% of your pineapples added that together, sliced then up, and added some RUM, He would not care if his math was correct, because he would have a nice BUZZ, and that would be even better if he was on the beach in Bali, Indonesia, with a hot chick. So screw the game and the math and pass the RUM.


sorry about using oranges, Mr Oranges no disrespect intended, I love you with breakfast SQUEZZED! sorry that was mean,

Edited January 11, 2013 by Lord Bit

[Judge X]

[quote name='sigelopisan' timestamp='1357868300' post='3074309']
Very sad that this is coming from you, TPF.

Its either you don't know the relation between TPF and NEW or you are a complete retard.

I'm very sad and regret that I have defended you both in war and politics.
[/quote]
Sig. You don't understand. UnkownSmurf was not a memebr of Kaskus when he started the fight with NSO. When he saw that NSO was done with the talk he literally ran to Kaskus for protection. I know for a fact that he was not in Kaskus because there would have been no Kaskus right now if it weren't for Smurf. I have deep respect for NEW. I have absolutely no respect for those who do not mind being used just for a few casualties. There are better opportunities for a real war lurking out there.

NEW isn't a noob to this game. You guys knew what you were doing when you aided Kaskus. Somehow Smurf convinced Tan and likely every Indo in Kaskus that they needed help from NEW and that he is really a friend. I cannot and WILL not believe that Tan has not figured this out by now.

[Walshington]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357874317' post='3074422']
The analogy has been made previously; if it were only ever about the absolute amount of nation strength lost, then every nuclear rogue ever was completely victorious against their opposition.

The fact is, relative to their pre-war size, NSO has lost less relative nation strength than Kaskus. More nation strength also means you have more to lose.

Which would you say has lost more, a nation that goes from 10k nation strength to 5k, or a nation that goes from 100k to 93k? Which nation do you think is hurt worse, a nation that has lost 50% of it's nation strength (hint: this one), or a nation that's lost 7% of it's nation strength (hint: not this one)?

Stop skipping maths classes, people.
[/quote]

Actually, victory on war has zero to do with math or casualty counts. It has to do with will to fight, which is why pre-war NS and comparing losses, actual or percentage, really is largely inconsequential.

See Japan in WWII -- willing to fight to the last man until the atom bomb sapped their will to fight. Or see the United States in Vietnam, in which the technological and numererical military seniority mattered not due to the loss of will to fight amonst the government and populace. Losses mean nothing -- losses you cannot afford to lose or are unwilling to live with are what cause defeat.