Why do I even bother ?

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1357904710' post='3074719']
You still poking tiger bern? Any chance either party would consider renegotiating the terms?
[/quote]

I'm willing to nudge a little to show I can be a reasonable person.

$1 with the smug satisfaction that they get something out of me after adamantly saying they would get nothing.

[markfrancos]

That is what we have had to deal with. Like I say in the topic title. Why do I bother.

[Chimaera]

Bernkastel, doing something stupid? Color me utterly astonished.

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357919558' post='3074779']
That is what we have had to deal with. Like I say in the topic title. Why do I bother.
[/quote]

What, $1 and smug satisfaction (which is priceless) isn't progress in our negotiations?

I'm open to returning to the table with a fresh start on terms that I will have an actual say in. We can at least do that.

[Swatch0]

You don't need to negotiate, sentence has been stated. You are getting only what you deserve, why negotiate?

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1357951048' post='3075089']
You don't need to negotiate, sentence has been stated. You are getting only what you deserve, why negotiate?
[/quote]

I'm getting what didn't have a single breath of my opinion in it, naturally I am fighting these terms. I'm furious that my fate was decided by two people behind closed doors one by a supposed friend who couldn't or didn't want to spend political capital on a frivolous affair like this and the other by a person who can't stand by their word because his membership doesn't support him on anything. These terms are too harsh. Heck I had less terms when I actually attacked someone and went rogue and did actual damage. I haven't done any of the sort here, I returned everything and my offer is in their hands and are highly reasonable if not generous (which is in their PM box here). I think it's worth exploring.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Bernkastel

[BloodFury]

Free Barndoor from these injustices!

[nishiyoshi]

Mark, PM me a list of 5 GPF nations that the $3M will go to. I will be paying the debt that will lift this ZI. It is obvious to me now that Bernkastel is not of sound mind, so cannot be held responsible for actions. It's the classic insanity defense. I recommend you do not listen to anything else or take anything else Bernkastel takes seriously until after treatment by the best doctors CN has to offer assuming Bernkastel will take the necessary steps to get better. We have many witnesses here who think it's "insane" that this would erupt over such reasonable terms. Further, the instability shown by Bernkastel wanting to let their nation "burn" for ideals, then deciding to shun the rest of the world through allowing happiness to decay at a point per day is not normal behavior by any stretch of the imagination.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='nishiyoshi' timestamp='1357969007' post='3075290']
Mark, PM me a list of 5 GPF nations that the $3M will go to. I will be paying the debt that will lift this ZI. It is obvious to me now that Bernkastel is not of sound mind, so cannot be held responsible for actions. It's the classic insanity defense. I recommend you do not listen to anything else or take anything else Bernkastel takes seriously until after treatment by the best doctors CN has to offer assuming Bernkastel will take the necessary steps to get better. We have many witnesses here who think it's "insane" that this would erupt over such reasonable terms. Further, the instability shown by Bernkastel wanting to let their nation "burn" for ideals, then deciding to shun the rest of the world through allowing happiness to decay at a point per day is not normal behavior by any stretch of the imagination.
[/quote]

He isn't insane. He's proving an alliance incompetent, much like yours is. Whether you agree with his methods or not isn't a factor in insanity.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Cress' timestamp='1357836459' post='3073944']
Unless your a fellow member or ally we particularly don't care of your opinion on our business.

To Bern: Irule is in peace mode and deleting hence why we aren't hitting him too. Also don't try and play all innocent not only did you coup you sent orders for our members to attack an ally. Joke coup or not you disrespected the choice of the members.
[/quote]
Takes a special group of mules to come to OWF, make an announcement and then state they don't Cate what anyone but allies think.
If you don't want feed back keep your low rent problems in back channels.

[nishiyoshi]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1358026465' post='3075601']
He isn't insane. He's proving an alliance incompetent, much like yours is. Whether you agree with his methods or not isn't a factor in insanity.
[/quote]

I have made my own diagnosis and judgement on the situation. You are entitled to your own. I have made this offer not as a representative of my Alliance, but as an advocate for Mental Health. It appears that your psychometry skills of thinking my post in anyway has anything to do with my alliance and thereby questioning my competency may need some recalibration.

I am very glad you are taking this matter so seriously and have taken the time to post. Mental health is nothing to be trolled or made fun of. It is a very serious issue that according to the National Institute of Health affects over 1 out of every 4 people. Statistically speaking, there is a 75% chance that Bernkastel does not have a mental health issue, but looking at the actions seems to lead me to believe that the 25% is not out of the realm of possibility.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357784626' post='3073524']
In many ways I still believe in that yet I come from a democratic alliance and accordingly what I think is not always what I personally believe. The membership prefered ZI. [/quote]

I come from a democratic alliance too and given a similar situation I'd either not make any promise and just be up front about it's not my decision or, if I believed that the alliance charter gave me the power, I would stick by my decision and if the membership didn't like it enough, they could vote for someone else next election.

If it really is possible for your alliance membership to change a promise once made, you're in for some serious trouble when that happens after you promise military support to some alliance that is counting on it. You should probably fix the alliance rule(s) that allow this before it does more than make GPF look incompetent in dealing out internal punishment.

Edited January 13, 2013 by White Chocolate

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='nishiyoshi' timestamp='1358045557' post='3075723']
I am very glad you are taking this matter so seriously and have taken the time to post. Mental health is nothing to be trolled or made fun of. It is a very serious issue that according to the National Institute of Health affects over 1 out of every 4 people. Statistically speaking, there is a 75% chance that Bernkastel does not have a mental health issue, but looking at the actions seems to lead me to believe that the 25% is not out of the realm of possibility.
[/quote]

Its unfortunate that the nation of Kapon has these unfortunate issues. I wish them well in their medical and therapeutic advances to help the mentally ill.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Bernkastel

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='nishiyoshi' timestamp='1358045557' post='3075723']


I have made my own diagnosis and judgement on the situation. You are entitled to your own. I have made this offer not as a representative of my Alliance, but as an advocate for Mental Health. It appears that your psychometry skills of thinking my post in anyway has anything to do with my alliance and thereby questioning my competency may need some recalibration.

I am very glad you are taking this matter so seriously and have taken the time to post. Mental health is nothing to be trolled or made fun of. It is a very serious issue that according to the National Institute of Health affects over 1 out of every 4 people. Statistically speaking, there is a 75% chance that Bernkastel does not have a mental health issue, but looking at the actions seems to lead me to believe that the 25% is not out of the realm of possibility.
[/quote]

You really are a gem. A 1 in every 4 gem.

[Namayan]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1358054997' post='3075756']
I come from a democratic alliance too and given a similar situation I'd either not make any promise and just be up front about it's not my decision or, if I believed that the alliance charter gave me the power, I would stick by my decision and if the membership didn't like it enough, they could vote for someone else next election.

If it really is possible for your alliance membership to change a promise once made, you're in for some serious trouble when that happens after you promise military support to some alliance that is counting on it. You should probably fix the alliance rule(s) that allow this before it does more than make GPF look incompetent in dealing out internal punishment.
[/quote]\

This is sums it up.

The trust has been shattered when it comes to GPF. How will the current allies react when GPF officials promise something that GPF can just turn their back on and make an excuse. Same way on new possible treaties of GPF.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1358054997' post='3075756']
I come from a democratic alliance too and given a similar situation I'd either not make any promise and just be up front about it's not my decision or, if I believed that the alliance charter gave me the power, I would stick by my decision and if the membership didn't like it enough, they could vote for someone else next election.

If it really is possible for your alliance membership to change a promise once made, you're in for some serious trouble when that happens after you promise military support to some alliance that is counting on it. You should probably fix the alliance rule(s) that allow this before it does more than make GPF look incompetent in dealing out internal punishment.
[/quote]
Or make sure you know the pulse of your alliance before making promises.

[Tiberius]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1358043199' post='3075715']
Takes a special group of mules to come to OWF, make an announcement and then state they don't Cate what anyone but allies think.
If you don't want feed back keep your low rent problems in back channels.
[/quote]I apologize that we don't let the OWF run our FA. As I have stated previously the whole reason for this Announcement, not discussion, was to alert the alliance's of Bob that Bernkastel is on our ZI List. If you choose to alert alliance's by going through backroom channels then that it is entirely your choice.

[BloodFury]

After taking time to read your charter a bit, I have found that the promise by markfrancos that Barndoor would not face any consequences for his actions was well within his bound as Secretary General. His initial response was passed as he has supreme control on the matter. Where the membership gets to vote on the matter is not mentioned in the charter. So the fact that you are back peddling to pass punishment for something you were within your power to promise and pass is beyond me. Lets face the fact, you screwed up, just drop the entire situation at this point.

You made an initial promise that you were within your rights to make as the leader as per your charter, stand by it.

[quote]
Section 1: Secretary-General

The Secretary General is the official head of state of the Global Protection Force. The Secretary General has the credentials to both appoint and remove the Deputy Secretary General. In war time, unless delegated otherwise, the Secretary General is flag officer, and has the final say on all issues including but not limited to: surrender, disbandment, punishment, and expulsion. The Secretary General is endowed with the responsibility to set the agenda of the alliance, as well as protect these articles of creation. The Secretary General serves as the head of the Upper Chamber, and can veto any decision made by the Upper Chamber if deemed necessary. The Secretary General is a lifelong appointment. If the incumbent Secretary General becomes unable to serve or concedes the remainder of his or her appointment, the Deputy Secretary General will succeed the chain of command and be confirmed Secretary General. Should the Secretary General feel that an elected Minister is not performing to the required level, the Secretary General may remove a Minister and call an election for that position.[/quote]

Edited January 13, 2013 by BloodFury

[Lurunin]

The charter on their wiki is outdated and needs to be updated tbh.

Their current charter is on their forums which was ratified a few weeks back. I almost made the same mistake until I remembered it didn't look right compared to the announcement back then.

Also they need to fix the current gov section on the forums from where the coup people editted it

Edited January 13, 2013 by Lurunin

[BloodFury]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1358107597' post='3075887']
The charter on their wiki is outdated and needs to be updated tbh.

Their current charter is on their forums which was ratified a few weeks back. I almost made the same mistake until I remembered it didn't look right compared to the announcement back then.

Also they need to fix the current gov section on the forums from where the coup people editted it
[/quote]

Then would you be so kind as to copy and paste their government section of their charter?

[Lurunin]

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1358107761' post='3075889']


Then would you be so kind as to copy and paste their government section of their charter?
[/quote]

Maybe when I'm on the comp later today. Should be public on their forums though if I remember right

[Lurunin]

here's the charter in relations to SG/Triums:

[quote]GPF is a representative democratic state in which the Secretary-General and his elected Triumvrate wield supreme power.

[u][b]Section I: The Secretary-General[/b][/u]
The Secretary-General is a permanent position and the Secretary-General will remain on his or her throne until he or she resigns. If this should occur, the Secretary-General will then designate his or her successor and power will be transferred within twenty-four hours. The Secretary-General has the supreme authority on all issues in the GPF and can overrule any of the other government officials, except the three Triumvirates.

[u][b]Section II: The Triumvirate[/b][/u]
The Three Triumvirates are three members of the GPF elected by the Membership to effectively lead the alliance in matters such as Internal Affairs, Foreign Affairs, and Military Affairs. Unanimous agreement is required by the Triumvirate to sign a treaty or declare aggressive war. [b]The Triumvirate can overrule the Secretary-General [i]on any issue[/i] so long as they acquire a 2/3 vote in favor.[/b][/quote]

Edited January 14, 2013 by Lurunin

[BloodFury]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1358109375' post='3075893']
here's the charter in relations to SG/Triums:
[/quote]

So what you are saying is that they can effectively break any deal that was made? Good form of government right there.

[salsabeast1]

I hereby declare myself leader of GPF and coup Mark/Ronjoy/Cress. My second act of business is working on a treaty with the New Sparta lead by sourcy. Thank you for your time.

[markfrancos]

fail mate