bmckenna Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1340117489' post='2988874'] I'm sure you will eventually(so will I for those looking at my nation to see if I'm in peace mode to totally discredit my argument) don't let me down now [/quote] I think the only way we'll really get into it with each other is if you guys sell about 1/2-2/3 your NS, or there is a surprise change tonight and tech gets a capped effect on NS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1340114587' post='2988848'] This reminds me of the days of the second VietFAN. The very premise of guerrilla warfare is that any party will try to fight on its own terms, not there terms of its opponents. Though there are great costs to avoiding costly conflict, they can still inflict damage upon the enemy over a long period of time. Eventually, the opposition realizes that further pursuit is more costly than beneficial. That is what winning is to an alliance trying to defend its sovereign soil. Now, should Fark have initiated this conflict, I would have called such guerrilla tactics cowardly and ill-advised. However, you attacked them for no reason other than because your handlers instructed you to do so, and therefore you must fight on Fark's terms. [/quote] The issue is, he's playing up the fact that peace moding when the war is going to be an upper tier curbstomp is a cowardly move. There isn't any parity whatsoever and in those cases, you have to maximize whatever advantage you have. It's a war of extermination like VietFAN(overall conflict MK and Friends vs SF/XX) like you said, and respect from people who are trying to wipe you out isn't really something I'd hold dearly. Then he goes on to talk about how Alexandros deserted when he said he was going to fight if asked anyway and has always been on the front lines of conflicts more than anyone. It's people like Alex who fought TOP/IRON/etc. for C&G , AZTEC, and others for alliances within the DH grouping who would go on to throw them under the bus entirely. In the last war he was fighting PF too, so JA is really stretching things in order to justify the kind of twisted thought processes that rationalize Umbrella's overall demeanor, which is centered on pleasing MK and keeping their stats in tact by avoiding any real risks. Why would something their handlers wanted have to be cleared anyway? It's like if you're a big beer drinker, and I'm in your employ, and I buy you a 12 pack without you asking me. The issue is JA's analysis of things is asinine like much of the thinking of that comes out of the anti-critical thinking zone known as Umbrella. Edited June 19, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1340113124' post='2988840'] Because hiding in PM for the entire war is the equivalent of taking your balls and going home because you're not winning (if they are indeed hiding for the duration of the war) If that's how people plan on winning losing wars from now on this planet is going to be a very dull place. It's a pretty terrible precedent to be setting: If you can't win, just hide until you can. Imagine if everyone did that. Imagine if the tables got turned on us and we proceeded to do the same damn thing. Imagine how god damn boring that'd be for the entire planet if everytime it looked like someone was going to lose, the losing party just hid until their opponents just got sick of it and offered peace. If you intend on hiding for the entire duration of a war without even trying to put up a fight then it is cowardice and there's no other way to spin it. It's not a case of not giving the enemy what it wants, it's a case of you refusing to accept any losses to in order to live to fight another day but that's only true if you actually do some fighting in the first place(you know, like FAN did when NPO tried to kill them they spent years in peace mode but they actually fought before entering peace mode). So instead, take your licks and give your opponent as good a beating as you can and then you might live to [i]actually[/i] fight another day instead of running for cover every time it looks like you might lose something. Who knows, maybe if you stopped running then you'd stop losing. [/quote] Jesus Christ you are a crybaby, if the war is so boring for you then here is an easy way out : http://www.cybernations.net/nation_delete.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 But dude his alliance is really edgy and declared on Fark! They are the man now, dog. Basically, the point stands, if losing puts you in a position where your future position is untenable regardless, then there is no reason to expend whatever forces you have left on pleasing your opponents desire. It leaves you vulnerable in the long run for no real reason. There has to be enough parity to the point where the winning forces end up taking heavy enough losses to want peace and compromise. Signing a peace treaty with MK or Umbrella for SF/XX in this kind of war on unfavorable terms or whoever means nothing at the time being since SF/XX have no reason to trust them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1340127238' post='2988951'] Jesus Christ you are a crybaby, if the war is so boring for you then here is an easy way out : http://www.cybernations.net/nation_delete.asp [/quote] You do know he isn't referring to Fark, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1340127238' post='2988951'] Jesus Christ you are a crybaby, if the war is so boring for you then here is an easy way out : http://www.cybernations.net/nation_delete.asp [/quote] It's only boring because the idea of beating down on you guys again is in itself boring. [OOC]I don't find the watching pixels come and go side of war entertaining at all, it's the work that makes the war happen which is the fun bit.[/OOC] For me the idea of killing you all again is pretty uninspired and unambitious but whatever I guess. Edited June 20, 2012 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1340150496' post='2989405'] It's only boring because the idea of beating down on you guys again is in itself boring. [OOC]I don't find the watching pixels come and go side of war entertaining at all, it's the work that makes the war happen which is the fun bit.[/OOC] For me the idea of killing you all again is pretty uninspired and unambitious but whatever I guess. [/quote] Noone forced you to do anything, you [i]chose[/i] this path. You chose to attack Fark, a nation you can barely attack. You chose to subsume your entire foreign affairs to MK and give up any independence of mind or thought. You have noone but yourselves to blame for everything about your current situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) So your CB is you just don't like Fark very much? Interesting to see so many of the alliances who criticized TOP for their lack of a CB when declaring on CnG in the BiPolar War have essentially copied TOP's way of declaring war in more recent conflicts. Edited June 20, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1340150974' post='2989410'] Noone forced you to do anything, you [i]chose[/i] this path. You chose to attack Fark, a nation you can barely attack. You chose to subsume your entire foreign affairs to MK and give up any independence of mind or thought. You have noone but yourselves to blame for everything about your current situation. [/quote] I'm afraid the only thing I had the authority to choose on was our war declaration image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warrior Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Good luck Umbrella! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enamel32 Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1340116872' post='2988865'] Well I mean, they aren't all bad. R&R and Fark are both actually fighting and MHA might well enter yet but war dodging is an epidemic in Sparta and has been for a long time, their top nation actually deserted to form his own AA shortly after this war kicked off. [/quote] Haha! You are really upset about the last war. You guys didn't reap many negatives of it, either. Sparta let you guys off pretty easy (we get it, business is business after all) compared to GATO/ODN/RIA. Get over yourself. You guys and GATO, took some heat over your actions cried about it instead of admitting you could have handled things better. I don't understand you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 As of Today's conversations with Fark. Please roll them, back up and run right over these $%&@s again. o/ Umbrella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrooper Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1340570144' post='2994708'] As of Today's conversations with Fark. Please roll them, back up and run right over these $%&@s again. o/ Umbrella [/quote] Grow up, Rotavele. There is no need to act like a child because of ten seconds of conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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