GOONS defending the great wall

[Alex0827a]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1330390240' post='2929579']
If an alliance sanctions actions which have the capacity to cause damage to the nation(s) of another alliance, that's a matter that demands attention.

GOONS members that raid are guaranteed no special protection when they go out to raid (this is outlined in their constitution), but that doesn't mean that GOONS loses the right to defend its members when and where it sees fit, or that they should be called cowardly when they do so.
[/quote]
Gotta say, there's an excellent point here.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1330390751' post='2929582']
Not "GOONS couldn't handle the heat of one nation." The [i]attacker [/i]apparently couldn't handle the heat of one nation. As if MONGOLS poses any threat to your alliance as a whole. You'll probably end up with spoils and reps that outweigh any damage, and have a nice large-scale raid out of it.
[/quote]
You really missed the point. We do not provide assistance to nations conducting raids, other than make fun of them if they screw up. That does not mean consequently that we allow people to sent war-aid to those we are at war with.

The only lines you are reading through are the ones in your own head i'm afraid.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1330390751' post='2929582']
Not "GOONS couldn't handle the heat of one nation." The [i]attacker [/i]apparently couldn't handle the heat of one nation. As if MONGOLS poses any threat to your alliance as a whole. You'll probably end up with spoils and reps that outweigh any damage, and have a nice large-scale raid out of it.
[/quote]
I think it's incredibly doubtful that the attackers (I think there was more than one) had anything to do with this. The government of GOONS operates very much on principle, and has a long history of taking similar action when it comes to war aid.

And as long as a few MONGOLS are able to find their nuke button, I can't see GOONS recouping their damages. Not that I expect them to complain about it.

Edited February 28, 2012 by ktarthan

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330391336' post='2929593']
We do not provide assistance to nations conducting raids[/quote]
Sorry, that's exactly what you're doing.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330390045' post='2929575']
I must admit that i have missed the 'raiding is wrong so there!' arguements. I was worried they had died along with polars credibility.
[/quote]

If you took my comments as "raiding is wrong, so there!" then I seriously call into question your comprehension skills.

[blueski]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1330388885' post='2929564']
Never expect integrity from a pack of mutts.
[/quote]
We've heard about every insult there is, but questioning our pedigree is just going too far.

[King Wally]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1330388283' post='2929549']
Dios mio, that is some policy you have over there.

It is not like there was some misunderstanding or rushed entry into this. It's been 10 days of cross-armed mongolian !@#$%^&* with these guys. They sent tech and soldiers to someone we were fighting, and rather than acknowledge this was bad, they are STILL calling it a tech deal. They took our starting point of 18m in reps and decided rather than negotiate down, they'd just flatout refuse it and call it extortion since that might garner some support from our critics. While we are watching this, they sign a treaty with Kaskus. The deadline for payment passes so they are given a Mercy Board challenge, that while difficult, could be done by someone with a thinking cap on. This bitburg dude...I don't even know. If you want to see the gem of a submission he sent in, stop over sometime.

Point is, they went over the line in a league game. And what's more, I think they wanted to.
[/quote]

Hey when we gave 6 mill to a new member being tech raided by GOONs it cost us 33 mill... how come these guys got a discount!

Pro-tip from the future though Mongols, the reps wouldn't of stopped the war anyway so I'd say you saved yourself the cash and got the war that was coming regardless in my opinion. Sounds like you guys can enjoy a good war anyway so kick back and have some fun hey. Pixels are over-rated anyway.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1330390240' post='2929579']
If an alliance sanctions actions which have the capacity to cause damage to the nation(s) of another alliance, that's a matter that demands attention.

GOONS members that raid are guaranteed no special protection when they go out to raid (this is outlined in their constitution), but that doesn't mean that GOONS loses the right to defend its members when and where it sees fit, or that they should be called cowardly when they do so.
[/quote]

Of course not. I mean, the members of the mob beating on an innocent who then turn on the good samaritan that comes to the victim's aid are to be considered the epitome of courage and distinction.

You are free to defend your members from a single innocent nation with full aid slots all you like. It doesn't mean I won't consider it wrong and pissweak of you to do so.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1330391547' post='2929596']
Sorry, that's exactly what you're doing.
[/quote]
Oh dear. Here, let me explain:
[quote name='Vanilla Napalm from the last post']That does not mean consequently that we allow people to sent war-aid to those we are at war with.

The only lines you are reading through are the ones in your own head i'm afraid.
[/quote]
Glad to help, buddy.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330391588' post='2929597']
If you took my comments as "raiding is wrong, so there!" then I seriously call into question your comprehension skills.
[/quote]
Really? Because if you aren't taking the 'raiding is wrong, so there!' stance as a constant your arguement kinda falls apart, as it would advocate aid in any circumstance.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Vanilla Napalm

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330392102' post='2929605']
Really? Because if you aren't taking the 'raiding is wrong, so there!' stance as a constant your arguement kinda falls apart, as it would advocate aid in any circumstance.
[/quote]

No, it doesn't. I see it is comprehension skills that are failing you or you are reverting to your tried and trusted meme of "omg toigar dun liek raidin lolz".

My point is quite simple. If you want to raid innocent nations then that is your prerogative. If you get into trouble when raiding said innocent nations then it is pissweak to call in the mob to bail you out. Hence me saying that, in relation to this incident, GOONS are pissweak.

I can't spell it out any more clearly than that. If you still interpret that as "raiding is wrong, so there!" then there is little more I can say to get the actual point across to you.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Tygaland

[Sardonic]

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1330391837' post='2929601']
Pro-tip from the future though Mongols, the reps wouldn't of stopped the war anyway
[/quote]
Yes it would have. Your continual annoyance is what made you a target to us. We have gotten reps from plenty of people we've not warred.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330392352' post='2929610']
No, it doesn't. I see it is comprehension skills that are failing you or you are reverting to your tried and trusted meme of "omg toigar dun liek raidin lolz".

My point is quite simple. If you want to raid innocent nations then that is your prerogative. If you get into trouble when raiding said innocent nations then it is pissweak to call in the mob to bail you out. Hence me saying that, in relation to this incident, GOONS are pissweak.

I can't spell it out any more clearly than that. If you still interpret that as "raiding is wrong, so there!" then there is little more I can say to get the actual point across to you.
[/quote]
If that is the case, you're misinterpretting the circumstances as well as not paying attention to what i said to the other guy. We are not 'bailing anyone out', we're taking exception to a group aiding something we're at war with. The circumstances in which the war was initiated are entirely irrelevent to our decision vis-a-vis MONGOLS.

[Baltus]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330382407' post='2929491']
it's posts like this that remind me why what we do is [s]the will of the [/s]Unjust [s]Path[/s].
[/quote]
ftfy

GONS are horrible monsters and should be ashamed of themselves.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330392909' post='2929614']
If that is the case, you're misinterpretting the circumstances as well as not paying attention to what i said to the other guy. We are not 'bailing anyone out', we're taking exception to a group aiding something we're at war with. The circumstances in which the war was initiated are entirely irrelevent to our decision vis-a-vis MONGOLS.
[/quote]

Which is, essentially, bailing the guy out who got into trouble with the raid. You can spin it any way you want I suppose but it doesn't change what it is you are doing. Someone came to the aid of a raid victim and you got all pissy about it.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330393300' post='2929618']
Which is, essentially, bailing the guy out who got into trouble with the raid. You can spin it any way you want I suppose but it doesn't change what it is you are doing. Someone came to the aid of a raid victim and you got all pissy about it.
[/quote]

they would have been fine. it's a matter of principle, and maintaining the precedent that you do not walk over us.

EDIT: IMO

Edited February 28, 2012 by mattski133

[Tygaland]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1330393448' post='2929620']
they would have been fine. it's a matter of principle, and maintaining the precedent that you do not walk over us.
[/quote]

Yeah, because helping out an innocent victim of your raiders is "walking all over you". Damn those good samaritans walking all over those thugs beating down on the little old lady. Should teach them !@#$%^&* a lesson! Songs and poems shall be written about your bravery.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330391930' post='2929603']
Of course not. I mean, the members of the mob beating on an innocent who then turn on the good samaritan that comes to the victim's aid are to be considered the epitome of courage and distinction.

You are free to defend your members from a single innocent nation with full aid slots all you like. It doesn't mean I won't consider it wrong and pissweak of you to do so.
[/quote]
*BEEP BEEP BEEP* [b]ANALOGY ALERT[/b].

Sorry, but analogies used to make a point are eternally and objectively terrible. Nations are not individuals. Raiding is not "beating on." Alliances are not mobs. Please try to make your argument in the context of nations, alliances, raiding, war, aid, etc.

GOONS is not defending its members from the raided nation. They're defending its members from a third party intentionally taking action that could cause harm to said members. In my eyes war aid is just as aggressive an action as declaring actual wars.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330393300' post='2929618']
Which is, essentially, bailing the guy out who got into trouble with the raid. You can spin it any way you want I suppose but it doesn't change what it is you are doing. Someone came to the aid of a raid victim and you got all pissy about it.
[/quote]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330393641' post='2929622']
Yeah, because helping out an innocent victim of your raiders is "walking all over you". Damn those good samaritans walking all over those thugs beating down on the little old lady. Should teach them !@#$%^&* a lesson! Songs and poems shall be written about your bravery.
[/quote]

Ok seriously, must i begin quoting myself to you too? You can use as many overtly melodramatic analogies as you want (i now favour animal based) but it doesn't change anything. The justification is pretty damn clear in my earlier statements.

EDIT: The $%&@, first Ardus, now Ktarthan. Goddamn MK sneaking in versions of my arguements before i press send.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Vanilla Napalm

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330394145' post='2929628']
Ok seriously, must i begin quoting myself to you too? You can use as many overtly melodramatic analogies as you want (i now favour animal based) but it doesn't change anything. The justification is pretty damn clear in my earlier statements.

EDIT: The $%&@, first Ardus, now Ktarthan. Goddamn MK sneaking in versions of my arguements before i press send.
[/quote]

You haven't justified anything, all you have done is misrepresent my argument.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330394938' post='2929637']
You haven't justified anything, all you have done is misrepresent my argument.
[/quote]
No intention of doing so, just getting the gist of what you're saying. That being said:

[quote]We are not 'bailing anyone out', we're taking exception to a group aiding something we're at war with. The circumstances in which the war was initiated are entirely irrelevant to our decision vis-a-vis MONGOLS.[/quote]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1330394110' post='2929627']
*BEEP BEEP BEEP* [b]ANALOGY ALERT[/b].

Sorry, but analogies used to make a point are eternally and objectively terrible. Nations are not individuals. Raiding is not "beating on." Alliances are not mobs. Please try to make your argument in the context of nations, alliances, raiding, war, aid, etc.

GOONS is not defending its members from the raided nation. They're defending its members from a third party intentionally taking action that could cause harm to said members. In my eyes war aid is just as aggressive an action as declaring actual wars.
[/quote]

Yes, dismissing an argument because it contains an analogy is a far superior form of debate. Whether you agree with analogy or not is immaterial, I think it details the situation quite nicely.

GOONS is "defending" its members who raided because the raid went bad (i.e. the raided party received financial and military aid to help it fight back against the GOONS raiders). They are bailing out the nations that raided by attempting to cut off assistance to the raided nation. If this is not assisting a nation that raided then I'm not sure what would consitute assistance to a raider.

Humourous that you use the term "defending" to paint the raider as a victim of aggression here while going to great lengths to play semantics over an analogy used in my post.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330395250' post='2929638']
No intention of doing so, just getting the gist of what you're saying. That being said:
[/quote]

It was a raid. That raid went pear-shaped and now GOONS come rushing in to assist their raider. You can play semantics over the word "war" all you like, it doesn't change what has happened at all.

[Jake Liebenow]

Ride on, GONOS.

I see that Tyga is still butthurt at his own loss, and is projecting. Sounds like this is on pace to be a 50-pager, guys. All it needs is Schatt and it's a real party.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1330395785' post='2929644']
Ride on, GONOS.

I see that Tyga is still butthurt at his own loss, and is projecting. Sounds like this is on pace to be a 50-pager, guys. All it needs is Schatt and it's a real party.
[/quote]

What loss would this be?

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330391336' post='2929593']
You really missed the point. We do not provide assistance to nations conducting raids, other than make fun of them if they screw up. That does not mean consequently that we allow people to sent war-aid to those we are at war with. [/quote]
You say you don't allow "war-aid" to those "we" are at war with. Does that mean that every GOONS raid is considered to be an alliance-wide war against the target?