Official United Equestria Policy Annoucement

[ktarthan]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1330121274' post='2927693']
Worked as Valhalla's Chancellor before and during the war. Guess our people have their crap together better than I thought...except for trade circles of course. Please don't get me started...most people followed instructions like a well-oiled machine...some, um yeah.
[/quote]
It makes me wonder what some other alliances are teaching their new members. Aren't tech deals a day 1 lesson?

[RePePe]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1330123678' post='2927715']
It makes me wonder what some other alliances are teaching their new members. Aren't tech deals a day 1 lesson?
[/quote]

Maybe it's the culture of these young whipper-snappers. They see a piece of candy in the street and pick it up and eat it without considering where it came from or why it's sitting there. (It's no wonder why their signatures are filled with pink unicorns and the like.)

Edited February 24, 2012 by RePePe

[Bill Wallace]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1330106241' post='2927585']
Heh, you've never worked finance have you? People just accept the money sent to them without asking all the time.
[/quote]


[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1330121274' post='2927693']
Worked as Valhalla's Chancellor before and during the war. Guess our people have their crap together better than I thought...except for trade circles of course. Please don't get me started...most people followed instructions like a well-oiled machine...some, um yeah.
[/quote]
For some reason I thought the Smurf's comment had an other worldly meaning and it made me laugh as I think I know what he's referring to. But if I did misinterpret his comment and we are just talking about aid slots, then this is just another case of me trying to hard to read in between the lines.

Oh and as for the horse is a horse of course of course alliance and their policy announcement, good luck with that. Probably should have just told your members who they can/can't accept aid from instead of making a clumsy attempt to stick your finger in the eyes of people you don't care for.

[Proest]

So I am reading (OP) this as saying:

[i]"Unless we approve of you sending us money for technology in return, you shall receive no return payment of said standard technology units. Too bad for you."[/i]

Well, nothing at all could possibly go wrong with this policy at all.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1330062962' post='2927330']
We use our tech to defend our friends.
[/quote]
Like all the times you have abused your position to harass, isolate, oppress, and even attack without so much as an attempt at justifying your actions?

This is a silly claim to make Ardus and you know it.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Baldr' timestamp='1330051444' post='2927222']
When you say "If you are not on our whitelist and send us money, we will accept the money and treat it as a donation", it sure sounds like your entire goal is to screw innocent parties out of their money. Your "Maybe we'll decide to refund the money if you raise a stink on our forums" policy only goes farther to make it sound like your goal is to screw people out of their money.



You always have a chance to agree or disagree, because the aid isn't sent until the receiver accepts the aid.




Your original post (the official policy) states "[i]This alliance policy overrides any unsolicited contracts offered by donor states, regardless of the agreement, explicit or otherwise, of United Equestria member states.[/i]" That means I could msg a UE nation and ask them if they want to sell tech, they could say yes, we could discuss price, and then after I send money and they accept, they could say "Hey, you sent an unsolicited msg that started this deal, and that means this is a donation!".

In fact, it sounds like you are encouraging them to do that. You explicitly state taht even if they *agree* to the deal prior to the aid being sent. You specifically say that even an explicit agreement doesn't negate this policy, and that they can simply take the money and scream "DONATION!"[/quote] Yes and we're even making them ghost other AA's before they fall into our devious trap. You caught us! We are so evil!

You might have a case if we weren't having our newbies reject all aid offers from unauthorized sources - Which we are allowed to do as a matter of security. DH and friends have made it no less than explicit that they want to roll us for nothing, so why, pray tell, should we be helping them to make that easier?

[quote]
I've never heard of "malicious tech buying" or "abusive tech buying". Perhaps you could explain. More likely, you're just a nutcase.
[/quote]
Techbombing: Flooding newbs with tech deal offers, with the intent to screw up their financial transactions elsewhere. The hope is to trip up tech deals and cause a great big mess - upon which the techbombing alliance would go to the fledgling micro, and say something of the sort of "Hey, just merge into our alliance and all debts are forgiven," if not varying degrees of extortion and other crimes. Also, concievably, a well-organised force could lock up an alliances slots and delay tech deals; Say nation A owes nation B 50 tech, and nation B has only one free slot. Offering aid to B makes it so A can't pay the tech until B is available to cancel it, by which point the alliance can again fill B's slot with their offer. The reverse is true, and far more dangerous, in stepping in to interrupt the renewal process of tech deals.

So yes, it happens. As it turns out, we received false intelligence that it was going to happen to us when in fact it was not, and one guy who we trusted pretty much threw us under the bus here. Our response was made with haste to address what we thought was an imminent assault on our economy, and thus comes off as far more heavy-handed than the actual spirit of the doctrine, which is to respond to coordinated economic attacks. Like those MK is performing in response to the policy.

[Baldr]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1330143936' post='2927900']
Yes and we're even making them ghost other AA's before they fall into our devious trap. You caught us! We are so evil! [/quote]

I didn't say anything about MK. MK being stupid is common, and isn't an excuse for you to encourage your nations to steal money.

I have in no way supported MK ghosting. I don't like MK. I'd have laughed if one of the AA's they ghosted just declared on the ghosts and nuked the crap out of them.

Your policy essentially says "We reserve the right to steal money".

Even if someone comes to an agreement with one of your nations to do a deal, your policy says that their agreement isn't valid and that they can just take the money. "This alliance policy overrides any unsolicited contracts offered by donor states, regardless of the agreement, explicit or otherwise, of United Equestria member states."

You're policy is "Steal money". And if you try it on a wide scale, it will almost certainly get you rolled. And you will deserve it.

[quote]Techbombing: Flooding newbs with tech deal offers, with the intent to screw up their financial transactions elsewhere.
[/quote]

The only time I've ever heard of anything similar occurring was a direct result of your "We're going to steal your money and call them donations" policy.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Baldr

[TailsK]

I like UE, but I disagree with this policy. This really isn't practical as anything other than an internal policy. You cannot force your polices onto other alliances (which is essentially what you're doing here). If you don't want your members making deals with alliances not on your list, it's your responsibility to ensure that as part of their induction, they are aware of this policy. You are shifting this responsibility away from your government and members. Honestly, I think this policy will ultimately hurt UE (more than it has already done).

This post was made to "future-proof" this policy for all current and future alliances. However, how is a new alliance or player in another alliance meant to know about this policy if they don't visit the OWF or it is no longer on page one? You cannot expect every alliance to have a thread on their boards titled "Tech Deals with UE".

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='TailsK' timestamp='1330256367' post='2928479']
I like UE, but I disagree with this policy. This really isn't practical as anything other than an internal policy. You cannot force your polices onto other alliances (which is essentially what you're doing here). If you don't want your members making deals with alliances not on your list, it's your responsibility to ensure that as part of their induction, they are aware of this policy. You are shifting this responsibility away from your government and members. Honestly, I think this policy will ultimately hurt UE (more than it has already done).

This post was made to "future-proof" this policy for all current and future alliances. However, how is a new alliance or player in another alliance meant to know about this policy if they don't visit the OWF or it is no longer on page one? You cannot expect every alliance to have a thread on their boards titled "Tech Deals with UE".
[/quote]
I agree the policy would make more sense if they specify it only counts as a donation if the one trying to initiate the deal does so by ghosting the AA of an approved alliance to do tech deals with.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Methrage

[Garion]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330025310' post='2926882']
In addition to being completely classless in this public logdump, you also come off as ridiculously arrogant. I would have hoped the arrogant days of GRE died with the old incarnation. Guess I was wrong.
[/quote]

The irony of GOONS accusing someone of being ridiculously arrogant, it hurts.

[quote name='TBRaiders' timestamp='1330018322' post='2926772']
I do completely understand why Gremlins wouldn't want anyone on their AA. They did steal it fair and square.
[/quote]

Really? I mean, really?

Edited February 26, 2012 by Garion

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1330257111' post='2928481']
The irony of GOONS accusing someone of being ridiculously arrogant, it hurts.



Really? I mean, really?
[/quote]
You can't really expect better coming out of Dumb House or whatever they call themselves these days.

[MrMuz]

Tech is a seller's market. The policy is designed to scare off aggressive buyers from manipulating newbie tech sellers and buying tech without alliance approval. It's not a bad policy, just could be worded a lot better.

[Ardus]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1330142244' post='2927879']
Like all the times you have abused your position to harass, isolate, oppress, and even attack without so much as an attempt at justifying your actions?

This is a silly claim to make Ardus and you know it.
[/quote]
It is unfortunate to see you embrace the hate again.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1330257111' post='2928481']
The irony of GOONS accusing someone of being ridiculously arrogant, it hurts.
[/quote]
There is a time and a place for arrogance, it is not when talking to a leader of equal or greater stature of the same sphere.

[trimm]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330281528' post='2928572']
There is a time and a place for arrogance, it is not when talking to a leader of equal or greater stature of the same sphere.
[/quote]

I wasn't aware being "equal or greater in stature" absolved one of being called out for an utterly ridiculous act. Especially when that act is committed against someone in the same sphere.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1330282342' post='2928575']
I wasn't aware being "equal or greater in stature" absolved one of being called out for an utterly ridiculous act. Especially when that act is committed against someone in the same sphere.
[/quote]
There's calling out, which is in their right. And then there's logdumping. Additionally, GRE was not directly targeted, 1337guy assumed that people would ghost nobody alliances outside the sphere.

Not saying it shouldn't have been ordered in the first place, but still.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sardonic

[trimm]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330282648' post='2928582']
There's calling out, which is in their right. And then there's logdumping.
[/quote]

MK dumped the ENTIRE contents of an embassy thread to the OWF, I don't think anyone in DH has much room to complain about a logdump.

It's also a pretty transparent attempt to once again shift the focus from the dumb think MK did to someone else.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1330282782' post='2928588']
MK dumped the ENTIRE contents of an embassy thread to the OWF, I don't think anyone in DH has much room to complain about a logdump.

It's also a pretty transparent attempt to once again shift the focus from the dumb think MK did to someone else.
[/quote]
Yes but that was NpO, who i dare say is well outside the sphere.

[trimm]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330282938' post='2928595']
Yes but that was NpO, who i dare say is well outside the sphere.
[/quote]

That is splitting a hair mighty thin there. You must be a champion barber.

And while Gre and MK might share some common allies, I don't think that fact in any way entitles MK to getting the kid gloves over this absurdity.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1330283101' post='2928602']
That is splitting a hair mighty thin there. You must be a champion barber.

And while Gre and MK might share some common allies, I don't think that fact in any way entitles MK to getting the kid gloves over this absurdity.
[/quote]
Splitting hairs? Would you treat an enemy the same way as an indirect ally?

[trimm]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330283169' post='2928606']
Splitting hairs? Would you treat an enemy the same way as an indirect ally?
[/quote]

When my indirect ally does something really dumb that happens to also be a clear cut violation of my sovereignty, after already displaying a troubling pattern of recent behavior, then you bet I'm not going to be exactly kind to them.

I'll also note that being indirect allies didn't stop MK from doing the dumb thing in the first place, so trying to use that to appeal to my better nature isn't exactly going to go over well.

[Penkala]

I have a better idea. Tell your own !@#$@#$ members to not accept unsolicited aid from non-whitelisted parties. Tell them that if they do, it's on them to fulfill the tech deal. If they don't, pay the 100 tech for them and kick them out (or punish them however you see fit). Total cost to you in the worst case scenario is 100 tech. The way you're going about this now just makes you look like a terrible alliance that can't control its members.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1330283396' post='2928614']
When my indirect ally does something really dumb that happens to also be a clear cut violation of my sovereignty, after already displaying a troubling pattern of recent behavior, then you bet I'm not going to be exactly kind to them.
[/quote]
Where's the pattern? I've not seen any evidence of any actions of MK targeted toward you and the other members of your bloc?
[quote]
I'll also note that being indirect allies didn't stop MK from doing the dumb thing in the first place,
[/quote]
Like I said, it was an error of judgement on their part to make the order, but the order was given with the unstated expectation that they would only ghost nobodies and NOT members of the sphere. It was a failure of control, not malicious intent towards GRE.
[quote]
so trying to use that to appeal to my better nature isn't exactly going to go over well.
[/quote]
I'm not really trying to appeal to your anything, I'm just stating it for the record.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sardonic

[Garion]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1330033950' post='2926992']
If any other alliance would have made this mistake there's no way it would be scrutinized this much.

But it was a DH alliance so it's clearly just another atrocity to add to the list and they should be strung up by their heels and dragged through the streets for this.
[/quote]

Honestly...

[img]http://i.imgur.com/KXf4A.png[/img]

They could have avoided all this ruckus by deciding to avoid UE as dealers... Simply that. They instead decided to make a mess of this issue.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1330299082' post='2928845']
Honestly...

[img]http://i.imgur.com/KXf4A.png[/img]

They could have avoided all this ruckus by deciding to avoid UE as dealers... Simply that. They instead decided to make a mess of this issue.
[/quote]

Or, you know, UE could use common sense.

Which is the easier and better solution here?