Official announcement from the Legion

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320099353' post='2835976']
First off Bob, this is not directed solely at you, you are just the latest to say it. This has been being said all day, The tag line that NSO said repeatedly that they alone could take down Legion. I went back to World Affairs, and read 4 NSO taunt legion threads. You know what I didnt see ? What I didnt see was ONE single NSO member say they could beat Legion in a 1v1 war. I saw a couple of CSN guys. A couple of TLR guys, a couple of those Carlos freaks, all suggest it. Didnt see one single NSO guy suggest it. Now, granted, I only read 4 threads(totalling 20 pages), but FFS, it would seem to me that if it were as clear and rampant as it is being made out to be, that I would find at least ONE post by one of them in those 20 pages, saying they would win 1v1 vs Legion. So, I offer this challenge to ALL of you. Fine me 10 NSO member posts(from different members) where it is said they can beat Legion 1v1. Thats.... 8% of their alliance. Or, to make it easier, find me TWO high gov posts that suggest this. Or, STFU about it, and stop spewing a tag line because you see it being used elsewhere.

Now to clarify, Im not saying that these posts dont exist, Im simply saying that I didnt find them, and if they are so rampant, they should be easy for SOMEONE to find. Shouldnt they?
[/quote]


[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1320106333' post='2836055']
I did a lot of searching as well and mr Sykes claims from what I can tell is correct.

NSO tossed around a lot of crap about how it was nice knowing legion, or that they would show legion how to wage war or that they would beat them down but not once did they say 1 v 1 they would win (again from the threads I looked through)

However make no mistake NSO spouted nothing but confidence in legions defeat at their hands

So 1v1, no
NSO would beat legion, was said

Though they aren't delivering on that promise.

Also NSO has repeatedly said for the last few years they care not about PR so we can stop that as well

Now back to the beat down NSO is getting
[/quote]


[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320114310' post='2836137']
First off, whether or not NSO's taunting of Legion is distasteful or not, it is not part of the point I was making. Somewhere early on, some poorly informed idiot posted that NSO bragged for months that they could beat Legion 1v1. Then mouth breather after mouth breather followed and trumpeted it. It was cried long and loud, all throughout this thread. If NSO had indeed done that, I am a pragmatic person, I would be the 1st to tell them , you made this bed, now lie in it. So, I went and checked. And I checked. And I checked some more. And I found, the whole rallying cry, the entire premise(for many) that NSO should not now make use of allies, was a complete and total fabrication. So, I put the info out there. If NSO taunts from May-September were so distasteful, then Legion should have acted on them, instead of ignoring them. That they set their precedent of cowering in peace mode during a war, and then cowering in peace time from obvious acts of war, both through nation-nation acts(spy ops) and forum-forum(SS's etc), nets them a grand total of ZERO sympathy from me for their plight. They made it themselves. They have been finely crafting this masterpiece for the better part of 3 years. However, like I said before, if we want to now use wars as a means to punish alliances for what has already happened, that went unpunished at the time, I will LOVE this new world, cuz I have SEVERAL alliances that I would like to enact this bold new precedent on.
[/quote]


[23:27] <UnknownSmurf> We understand this, which is why we have not done it. Your members have asked many times for a 1v1 though, and I believe a member of your government (I can't remember who off the top of my head) also did.
[23:27] <UnknownSmurf> The Legion would easily destroy the NSO 1v1.
[23:27] <TehChron> that was me

[02:32] <UnknownSmurf> Do you mean the threats by members of NSO government that they would 1v1 us?
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> cant say the same fpor heh
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> lol
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> 1v1?
[02:32] <UnknownSmurf> You guys lived up to those well.
[02:32] <@WorldConqueror> obviously legion didint accept

Stay retired old man.

EDIT: I also broke a policy of mine to not share logs that I had with people without getting permission from the other parties in question so I would like to apologize to the Siths but in this instance I imagine you wouldn't agree to me sharing them.

EDIT 2: Since its out of context it may make little sense but the second line of the first log should be in quotes... Also these are two different instances on different dates.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320119696' post='2836221']
And somehow I'm still a member.

How did that happen?!
[/quote]

Yes, that IRON thread still gives me nightmares

[Tygaland]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320121501' post='2836238']
It's funny because the STA knows better than most how our pride has very little to do with how we're perceived by others
[/quote]

On the contrary, I see that most of what NSO has doen here is motivated by pride. I mean, you have surrendered numerous times in your history so you have no issue with surrender itself. You have nothing to fight for here with respect to the loss of some liberty or similar. all you have to fight for here is pride and the need to be seen as not being defeated by Legion.

[quote]
So I guess that means you're either trying the spin game (it's quite fun, but you're doing it wrong) or you're just lying through your teeth (and as you are a man of intelligence, I am betting that this is the angle you're going for)
[/quote]

The angle I'm going for is lying through my teeth? Not much of an angle to go for really.

No, what I am saying is that you spent a bit of time here telling everyone how you do not care about how you are perceived while at the same time going to great lengths to avoid using the "s" word in any peace agreement because doing so will cause you to lose face after months of telling anyone who'd listen that Legion were terrible at war.

[quote]
After all, were that an attempt at spin, it would be laughably inept. So since the wisest course of action is to assume that you are [i]not[/i] incompetent, you must be lying through your teeth about how the Sith's pride works. Just saying.
[/quote]

I don't really need to spin anything. What is happening is plain to see. I'm not sure what it is I'm lying about as I only passed comment on what appeared to be a contrived and particularly weak attempt to reiterate your "we don't care what anyone thinks of us" meme.

You picked a fight during months of talking your opponent down. When that fight finally came to you (albeit via an ally of yours who took a similar delight is picking this fight) you find yourself losing the war and now want to walk away without acknowledging that defeat. The only reasons for that are your pride and that people will mock you for surrendering to an opponent you have long derided as weak and incompetent. Both of which imply that you do really care about how you are perceived which makes a mockery of your claims that you don't care.

No spin, no lies, just an honest appraisal.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320122144' post='2836252']
[23:27] <UnknownSmurf> We understand this, which is why we have not done it. Your members have asked many times for a 1v1 though, and I believe a member of your government (I can't remember who off the top of my head) also did.
[23:27] <UnknownSmurf> The Legion would easily destroy the NSO 1v1.
[23:27] <TehChron> that was me

[02:32] <UnknownSmurf> Do you mean the threats by members of NSO government that they would 1v1 us?
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> cant say the same fpor heh
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> lol
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> 1v1?
[02:32] <UnknownSmurf> You guys lived up to those well.
[02:32] <@WorldConqueror> obviously legion didint accept

Stay retired old man.
[/quote]Eh, what did Stuart confirm? Exactly?

Ah, right, and you're referring to [i]my[/i] pointless taunts? Yeah, I said them. Since when does the lowest rung on the ladder of government mean anything as far as authority figures go? Does your undersecretary of Propaganda have any real weight in the affairs of the Legion?

Puh-lease, Smurf. If you're gonna invoke my name as your [i]Sensei of Spin[/i] you simply [i]must[/i] do well enough to make a single challenge from a TLR Triumverate become a millstone around his neck. If you can't even do that, I am afraid that I simply will have to disown you.

Hup hup, now, don't disappoint me.

[Fallen Fool]

What I take from this thread:

People !@#$%*ed because they thought Legion didn't have the guts to fight a war against Tetris when the odds were against them and now they !@#$%* because Legion has the gall to ask for a perfectly painless peace term in the face of increasingly hostile attempts at intimidation. An amusing contradiction, if I do say so.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320122414' post='2836261']
Eh, what did Stuart confirm? Exactly?

Ah, right, and you're referring to [i]my[/i] pointless taunts? Yeah, I said them. Since when does the lowest rung on the ladder of government mean anything as far as authority figures go? Does your undersecretary of Propaganda have any real weight in the affairs of the Legion?

Puh-lease, Smurf. If you're gonna invoke my name as your [i]Sensei of Spin[/i] you simply [i]must[/i] do well enough to make a single challenge from a TLR Triumverate become a millstone around his neck. If you can't even do that, I am afraid that I simply will have to disown you.

Hup hup, now, don't disappoint me.
[/quote]

Stuarts just in there, you should ignore him as always. That second log was for world conquerer. The contest set by Mr. Sykes was to find two government members stating it and I did with about 2 seconds of work.

[mq3eleven]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1320122014' post='2836248']
This is all im going to say.. This drama is better then soap operas
[/quote]

It really isn't. An alliance coming out of left field and rolling both alliances would be entertaining.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320122305' post='2836255']
On the contrary, I see that most of what NSO has doen here is motivated by pride. I mean, you have surrendered numerous times in your history so you have no issue with surrender itself. You have nothing to fight for here with respect to the loss of some liberty or similar. all you have to fight for here is pride and the need to be seen as not being defeated by Legion.
[/quote] Our pride is to not give in to an opponent we've spent a great deal of time mocking and deriding.

So what does that have to do with PR, exactly, Tyga? When we surrendered in BiPolar, it wasn't to an opponent we had openly antagonized for months beforehand. When we went to war with RoK, we just didn't get along with them, rather than hold them in utter contempt as being beneath us.

Circumstances are different. And everyone with two neurons to rub together knows that. You surely fall into that category, don't you?

[quote]
The angle I'm going for is lying through my teeth? Not much of an angle to go for really.

No, what I am saying is that you spent a bit of time here telling everyone how you do not care about how you are perceived while at the same time going to great lengths to avoid using the "s" word in any peace agreement because doing so will cause you to lose face after months of telling anyone who'd listen that Legion were terrible at war.
[/quote] Er...Demonstrate the causation?

How does the fact that we, as an alliance, can not stomach the idea of surrendering to the Legion equate to us considering how others besides ourselves view things serve as the motivational factor in that stance? This is why that is bad spin. Because the idea is demonstrably stupid.


[quote]I don't really need to spin anything. What is happening is plain to see. I'm not sure what it is I'm lying about as I only passed comment on what appeared to be a contrived and particularly weak attempt to reiterate your "we don't care what anyone thinks of us" meme.[/quote]So you really believe that?

Tragic. And here I thought that since you already knew better than that, you would only resort to lying in the face of facts to which you are well aware. I suppose that even you, Tyga, allow the shape of the treaty web to decide your opinions for you.

[quote]You picked a fight during months of talking your opponent down. When that fight finally came to you (albeit via an ally of yours who took a similar delight is picking this fight) you find yourself losing the war and now want to walk away without acknowledging that defeat. The only reasons for that are [b]your pride[/b] and that people will mock you for surrendering to an opponent you have long derided as weak and incompetent. Both of which imply that you do really care about how you are perceived which makes a mockery of your claims that you don't care.[/quote] Only the bolded.

And kind of you to at least, accidentally, acknowledge that the two are very much separate potential motivations.

[quote]No spin, no lies, just an honest appraisal.
[/quote]
It's pretty obvious that you're being anything but honest, Tyga.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320122534' post='2836265']
Stuarts just in there, you should ignore him as always. That second log was for world conquerer. The contest set by Mr. Sykes was to find two government members stating it and I did with about 2 seconds of work.
[/quote]
Nope.

[quote] Or, to make it easier, [b]find me TWO high gov[/b] posts that suggest this. Or, STFU about it, and stop spewing a tag line because you see it being used elsewhere.[/quote]

[quote][b]TWO high gov[/b][/quote]

[quote][b]high[/b][/quote]

Hence why I compared myself to the Undersecretary of Propaganda in relevance. Really now, Smurf, you continue to disappoint.

It saddens me. Try again, Im sure you can succeed if you put forth the effort.

Edited November 1, 2011 by TehChron

[TehChron]

Edit: Double post

Edited November 1, 2011 by TehChron

[Unknown Smurf]

I put "1v1" in my logs and waded through all the !@#$%^&* to find those 2 logs. Thats all you get. It exists and it proves his point wrong. I'm not going to waste my time finding more ...

[TehChron]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320123411' post='2836276']
I put "1v1" in my logs and waded through all the !@#$%^&* to find those 2 logs. Thats all you get. It exists and it proves his point wrong. I'm not going to waste my time finding more ...
[/quote]
It doesn't. Since the one is of an irrelevant individual who was intentionally just talking smack (hi), and the other was vague and was really only you quoting yourself and someone that apparently had nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

And what happened to it only taking "2 seconds of work"? Now it's wading through a bunch of logs and youre too tired to able to put any more work in?

Poor Smurf. He can't make the mean old Rush Sykes eat his own words. How sad.

In all seriousness, Smurf, quit while you're ahead. You got called out on. Own it. Accept it. Eat it.

[Sephiroth]

Congrats to Legion on their victories, but good luck NSO in seeing an end to this with no reps. I think NSO has always had a policy of not asking reps from what I remember, so I hope Legion does the same here and doesn't get greedy. NSO may not always be polite in what they say, but ultimately they came to the assistance of Tetris this war and Tetris has taken enough of a beating that I don't think any reps should be asked of them either. I hope to see this war wind down in a way that allows all alliances to walk away with their dignity intact and respect shown to former foes.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1320123647' post='2836281']
Congrats to Legion on their victories, but good luck NSO in seeing an end to this with no reps. I think NSO has always had a policy of not asking reps from what I remember, so I hope Legion does the same here and doesn't get greedy. NSO may not always be polite in what they say, but ultimately they came to the assistance of Tetris this war and Tetris has taken enough of a beating that I don't think any reps should be asked of them either. I hope to see this war wind down in a way that allows all alliances to walk away with their dignity intact and respect shown to former foes.
[/quote]Legion has not, and likely will not, ask for reparations of any kind.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320123733' post='2836284']
Legion has not, and likely will not, ask for reparations of any kind.
[/quote]
Because that would be suicide. And if the Legion has proven anything this war, is that they are not as completely terrible as everyone thought they were. So let's give them some credit where it's due, on their outstanding military victories against 2 micros and an alliance that barely even fought.

At any rate, this has been a blast thus far. I'm enjoying it, and look forward to seeing it continue for some time.

Edited November 1, 2011 by TehChron

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320123733' post='2836284']
Legion has not, and likely will not, ask for reparations of any kind.
[/quote]
I expect they won't, but still those are my thoughts on the matter if they were considering it. I'm sure admitting defeat will be difficult for NSO, but hopefully this can come to a nice conclusion with no grudges. If NSO does end up getting more help to turn this war around (although this late in the war I doubt they'll try bringing in more alliances if Legion is fair in their dealings), I would expect NSO to not ask any reps as well.

[Timeline]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1320116876' post='2836177']
People can do whatever they want and it is hardly new. I recall back as far as GW2 retro active treaties being signed. We have also seen in Planet Bobs history treaties as low as PIATs being used to enter. Then again we also have seen the last two major wars people entering without treaties at all. Of course anybody who pays semi attention to what goes on around here or has the abliity to read knows all this. Interesting that you did not. Please let me know if you need me to help you look foolish again.
[/quote]

Why in gods name would I need your help to make me look foolish, I am well known all around plant bob for been a fool I do not need help in that matter..

your really just not worth it, good luck

Edited November 1, 2011 by Timeline

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Heh, it is funny to see Legionnaires saying stuff like "bend your knee or we will break you on ours". Very amusing. Not that i think you are not entitled to a bit of preening at this time, seeing as how you did gain a lot in this war.

I don't see how anyone bringing in allies at whatever stage in a conflict is not allowed anymore? Bring in anyone and everyone you can, all of you. Have a great big bloc party, Burn down the community centre, chant "the roof, the roof.. the roof is on fire"

Then at the end, when the booze and the aphrodisiacs wear off, we can take stock and see who needs to surrender.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1320124340' post='2836295']
Heh, it is funny to see Legionnaires saying stuff like "bend your knee or we will break you on ours". Very amusing. Not that i think you are not entitled to a bit of preening at this time, seeing as how you did gain a lot in this war.

I don't see how anyone bringing in allies at whatever stage in a conflict is not allowed anymore? Bring in anyone and everyone you can, all of you. Have a great big bloc party, Burn down the community centre, chant "the roof, the roof.. the roof is on fire"

Then at the end, when the booze and the aphrodisiacs wear off, we can take stock and see who needs to surrender.
[/quote]
I agree NSO could bring in more allies, but if Legion isn't trying to get any reps from NSO, I don't see much point in NSO trying to turn this into a victory using the strength of their allies. All that would prove is NSO has more allies willing to jump into the war for them, but wouldn't say anything about NSO's individual fighting ability if they rely on others to win this for them. NSO fought well, better than anyone else in their coalition. There is no shame in them admitting a loss now that 3/5 alliances in their coalition have already surrendered.

[Timeline]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320123853' post='2836286']
Because that would be suicide. And if the Legion has proven anything this war, is that they are not as completely terrible as everyone thought they were. So let's give them some credit where it's due, on their outstanding military victories against 2 micros and an alliance that barely even fought.

At any rate, this has been a blast thus far. I'm enjoying it, and look forward to seeing it continue for some time.
[/quote]


Legion has/is beating down all five alliances and yes its true all five are micro alliances but together had the same numbers as Legion (Yes we all know how you will spin that claiming X, Y and Z did not fight and how they can not be counted and blah blah blah heard it all before), also this is not a military victory for legion not even by a long shot, even if NSO signs peace and admit they lost this still will not be a military victory for legion as legion had nothing to prove and this war wont change how people like FoK views Legion, this war has simply proven that sometimes there's times to shut up and sometime's to slap the cheeky kid (NSO) who punch above his weight class.

At the end of this war two things will be clear.

1) NSO admits to losing and everyone goes home
2) NSO admits to losing by begging allies to save them, causing this war to grow over night.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1320124823' post='2836304']
Legion has/is beating down all five alliances and yes its true all five are micro alliances but together had the same numbers as Legion (Yes we all know how you will spin that claiming X, Y and Z did not fight and how they can not be counted and blah blah blah heard it all before), also this is not a military victory for legion not even by a long shot, even if NSO signs peace and admit they lost this still will not be a military victory for legion as legion had nothing to prove and this war wont change how people like FoK views Legion, this war has simply proven that sometimes there's times to shut up and sometime's to slap the cheeky kid (NSO) who punch above his weight class.

At the end of this war two things will be clear.

1) NSO admits to losing and everyone goes home
2) NSO admits to losing by begging allies to save them, causing this war to grow over night.
[/quote]So? We lose to an alliance a few times our own size, and I eat my own words.

Both things that have happened several times before in the past. You're getting much too caught up in your vicarious living through the Legion. That must be terrible, by the way, I certainly wouldn't want to do that.

By the way, the only thing you said I caught were the numbered points, the preceding statement was too much of a mess for me to digest. Mind clarifying?

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='mq3eleven' timestamp='1320122672' post='2836267']
It really isn't. An alliance coming out of left field and rolling both alliances would be entertaining.
[/quote]

agreed

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1320124823' post='2836304']
snip
[/quote]

All I get from your posts is this: [img]http://www.mobilephonereviews.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/a-crying-baby.jpg[/img]

You should just give up the OWF altogether. You're worse than some people claim I am.

[King Wally]

[quote name='mq3eleven' timestamp='1320122672' post='2836267']
It really isn't. An alliance coming out of left field and rolling both alliances would be entertaining.
[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong that would sure get this thread going but at its base level this is a pretty interesting story. Long teased fat kid goes into nerd rage and bashes the classmate that spend all semester taking the piss out of him and running him into the ground. We now have the fat kid standing over the antagonist demanding he cry uncle and all along both sets of friends are milling around debating if they should turn it into a schoolyard brawl or just watch the two settle the score one on one (yeah i know Tetris is in there but they aren't the ones pushing the thread along).

Good popcorn fodder if you ask me

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1320124698' post='2836300']
I agree NSO could bring in more allies, but if Legion isn't trying to get any reps from NSO, I don't see much point in NSO trying to turn this into a victory using the strength of their allies. All that would prove is NSO has more allies willing to jump into the war for them, but wouldn't say anything about NSO's individual fighting ability if they rely on others to win this for them. NSO fought well, better than anyone else in their coalition. There is no shame in them admitting a loss now that 3/5 alliances in their coalition have already surrendered.
[/quote]
That would be akin to you not doing tech deals while some alliance or the other was ZI-ing you. You for one should not be telling others to refrain from using all the tools and means at their disposal.

i do not see anything wrong with an alliance wishing to use any means necessary [within the bounds of the laws of the realm] to try and ensure victory or stave off defeat. Or to cause as much damage as it can before it finally can not do any more. Or would you rather people stop drop and roll all the time at the first little setback they face?

Just to be clear, i am not making a value judgement here on who is wrong or right, or who is beaten or victorious at this point, all i am saying is, to make snide comments like "admit defeat if you bring in allies at this point" like so many here have been making, is nothing but people trying too hard. Sure it may inconvenience you if the war goes on longer, or you may wish to see the NSO be defeated, but hey, step in the ring and take a shot if that is what you want bad enough. If not, sit back, watch as the flames grow larger, bring marshmallows and beer, keep your gun cocked, and chill out. Winter can always wait.

[Lurunin]

[quote name='MisterShadow' timestamp='1320091004' post='2835915']
They have a MDoAP with RoK but their wiki doesn't have it for some reason. But RoKs does have NSO
[/quote]

ah ok i was going by Sith's wiki, thought it was only a MDP and didnt cross check

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1320091017' post='2835916']
You do realize NSO holds an oAoDp with the entire cyberverse right?

More generally, Every alliance holds an oAoDp with every other alliance in the entire cyberverse.
[/quote]

NSO has the Moldavi Doctrine but not every alliance adheres to the same line of thinking as can be shown in plenty of wars

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1320091054' post='2835917']
You know, the whole optional aggression portion of most MD[b]oA[/b]P's.
[/quote]

again...NSO...outdated wiki

[quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1320091121' post='2835918']
I'm pretty sure their wiki is outdated and that they have an MDoAP with RoK (even though ROK doesn't have it listed on their treaty list on their forums...lazy !@#$%^&* )

EDIT: Screw you guys for being fast
[/quote]

thanks for clarification

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1320096351' post='2835950']
A simple upgrade to a treaty in private is easy enough to do or heck in that last big war people were jumping in all over without treaties. This is the new Planet Bob.
[/quote]


[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1320106293' post='2836053']
LMFAO........ So lets get this right, people can now sign a treaty and join in a war that started a month ago ?, this is a crazy new world we live in, wont be long before people sign treaties to have a vaild reason to attack another alliance for a war that happened 4 years ago.

Hail TPF for setting the standard.
[/quote]

actually i believe LUE signed a treaty with Fark during the Great War II