brass

The Hegemony Alliances: * Collected Taxes and Paid Bills * Bought Military * Sent and Received Aid * United military power against enemies The Karma Alliances do everything listed above as well. Therefore: KARMA IS THE SAME THING!!!!

Is this a trap?

Impossible. Everybody still rode horses back then. OGP:

"nice"? It is as Ironic as FAN Not being fully engaged! :lol:

Sweet! A Gun Porn Thread!

4 out of 5 members prefer TWiP! I enjoyed the style and effort, but VoX just does it better.

They are using the "Use their own morals against them" tactic. Liberals have used this quite successfully against Conservatives. The losing side is projecting what they would do if they won as "bad", in their eyes, "not bad" is white peace for everybody. They don't think of "Reasonable Terms", only "Terms" or "No Terms", turning everything into black and white. If enough people call Karma bad and evil, sooner or later, some of Karma will believe it, especially when Real Terms are presented. The Real Terms will end up being more lenient than originally thought. They reinforce this by stating "Karma" will simply replace "Them" in being "bloc bullies" in an attempt to make people afraid of Karma. NONE of it is in the best interest of SSSW18, Karma, or any non-Hegemony alliances/supporters. If you believe the outcries of "Karma is Bad", you are falling for the trap.

Peace with Vox/FAN is Ludicrous?

FAN is working on opening relations so there isn't confusion this time.

I'd agree, except Arcades057. He's the most "war hungry" member, usually switching to the predicted winning side before any large conflict, stating he will fight to ZI. As far as FAN: Every one of us has been at or near ZI at least twice. We all fought the war. NPO wanting to do the curbstomp thing a third time is a bit ridiculous. If NPO uses FAN's actions after the second backstabbing as a justification to not fight at all, that is simply pathetic.

I'm confused, are you declaring war, or posting screenshots for the citizens of bob to decide who was "right"? History that I've seen posted: Peace is declared with a group on 2/3rd approval (Assumption of mogar's stance), allies are tossed into the peace without their knowledge. Mogar doesn't like it and quits. Allies do not like this and distance themselves. Statements retracted to get Mogar back. manbearpig agrees with mogar. Batallion declares dictatorship. Mogar and manbearpig come back as the "Diumvate". Batallion gets booted from gov for actions. New 3rd Trium is announced. Battalion seeks revenge by posting .. whatever the first post was... Let me know if the gist of this is correct. I think I missed a couple "cycles" in there somewhere.

I do not believe that alliances will no longer try to gain strength. I DO believe that alliances will shy away from gaining Power by eliminating others that have the nerve to question them.

I hope not, I believe we've been punished enough!

I haven't really seen a denial other than "If you work harder, you are rewarded". That's still an NPO issue that shouldn't concern people that aren't in the NPO, I guess. As far as the OP wanting "Touchy-Feely" leaders.. <Nelson>Ha Ha!</Nelson> Grow some thicker skin. My loyalty would definitely go down if I was told I'd be killed if I surrendered, nothing said at all would be better than that. I don't think giving the enemy a handful of propaganda is the best way to go out, either. My personal point of view is if members are going to bail in rough weather, I'd rather have them leave as soon as possible, of their own volition, rather than think I can count on them in the coming weeks, even in wartime. For example, if a nation was written into a large attack plan two weeks from now surrenders, it could be disastrous. This goes for both sides of the conflict.

Last Updated: 4/28/2009 1:32:50 PM Alliance Name Total Nations Active Nations Percent Active Strength Avg. Strength Score FOK 260 131 50% 7,807,386 30,028 28.91 Last Updated: 4/28/2009 1:32:50 PM Alliance Name Total Nations Active Nations Percent Active Strength Avg. Strength Score The Democratic Order 581 418 72% 6,744,298 11,608 28.92 Is it just me, or is the spreadsheet on the first page missing the last few days, and all of Karma?

I doubt Karma will give any of the Hegemony alliances a "peace offer" nowhere close to what the Hegemony has Happily given: LUE, GATO, GOONS, \m/, VE, CIS, FAN, and Many Others. I believe they need to be harsh, but not force people from the game. I have no say in it, but I do not see anything in this for "Karma" as a group trying to make a power grab. It would seem that the Hegemony alliances simply have no clue what they've done, and will try to spin it to anybody that will listen.

Ditto. Would people at least have the option of being waterboarded instead of joining GGA?

Thanks for the time/work you've put into this! It is informative and easy to read.

Fark supplies the blow, and the hookers are imported from TOP. I can live with that.

If unsure about somebody, type /ns info <nick> to make sure it is registered. The real Reyne[OG] should register the alias of Reyne[0G] to prevent the issue. If Reyne[0G] is registered by the imposter, the IRCops will correct the issue.

To take that example further, both players in chess start with the same pieces and rules. Playing chess is a very popular pastime. How many people get together to play Solitaire?

My definition of "multi-polar world" would essentially be a world where curbstomps are not possible. Battles would be fought with 2:1 odds in a worse case scenario. Every war since GW II (Initiative vs. League) has essentially been a curbstomp. This was followed by a very long period of no major wars, but certainly not peace, either. The sheer size of the top 400 nations, and the spread between the large and small is a testament to the lack of balance. The 100M "fine" for being to small to nuke only boosted the rise of those who were already large. One could state that NPO and allies reigned for 2 years before the revolt. I must admit, that alone is an Admirable accomplishment in itself. At the same time, quotes like "Attack GGA and NPO will show you why we do not need WRCs" shows how "comfortable at the top" they were: Having no fear of reprisal for any action they chose. This war has been a very long time coming. I would hope the engame of this results in small/strong treaties, rather than large chains of interwoven treaties that could easily form another version of the Hegemony. Worse case, a form of the "North / South" Web of 2006 should emerge, but I'd prefer 3 or even 4 poles to that, matching equal political values over uniting the most powerful in a group.

They are pretty much the same, the difference is the huge lack of alliance mates and allies hailing the post, effectively drowning out any opposing views. This thread is what many other NPO threads of the past would look like if all posts from NPO, its allies, and sycophants were removed.

I can understand SCM's post, it's one of the more coherent ones I've read of late. 8/10 for the rant. One problem with the rant is assuming the war is already won. To be unconditionally victorious will take at least 2 months, where strategy is far more important that tactics. In the last year, there has not been a war lasting longer than the "Tactics" stage (2 weeks tops). There isn't a Solid way of saying who will win until about the middle of the 3rd week, unless generally horrible players are on one side, which isn't the case here. Terms? I'll speak from personal experience here: Those offered to NPO were "do-able". I don't know, 90% of FAN lived with the very minimum troops for 2 months and 27 days. We recovered well in that time, only to be attacked again for too many soldiers, some improvements, and somebody with tanks (8 of latter infringements were "ghosts", and dropped the FAN AA when the war started). So no, I do not think the original terms were so harsh that they could not be followed. The current state of war with several alliances vs. FAN and "peace terms" of "Die." are a bit harsh, which is why the war hasn't ended. I personally would not give those terms ("Die.") to NPO, even though FAN is still living through them. As far as Karma's reason for war, NPO realized it had angered a large group, and wouldn't have the 3:1 advantage it has relied on for over 2 years. The terms were stated as non-negotiable, and should have been listed, and a yes/no answer, with no stalling in between and picking about things that didn't matter, since if one was rejected, all would be. FAN has been in similar discussions with NPO a few times (as an ally, and as an enemy). Archon was extremely generous and patient with NPO, compared to the way NPO "Negotiates". In addition, Karma at least tried to offer a way out for NPO, rather than simply attacking, which was the standard practice of the 1V crowd. They were large enough to revise history as needed later, which, among other factors, is what allowed them to continue their practices for such a long time. Spying? When you have a large number of alliances trying to annihilate your alliance, espionage is the only practical weapon. If FAN gets peace, and is free to grow again unhindered and unmolested, we would no longer be forced to hide who we are, and can be a happy family again. When reading the "History Of CN", keep in mind that the winners write the history. The events may be generally correct, but all information that may taint the image of the authors is omitted. This applies to History of Anything, from a single alliance forming, to real life. By the same token, Propaganda Works. If people see/hear the same thing often enough, they will start to doubt themselves and believe the propaganda. This explains the "hate" you see on the forums here, mostly, it isn't personal hate. In every war I've fought, I've generally had a good exchange in PM with the other side. Surprisingly, they are humans too, and most of them are decent.

FCC Are good peoples! Excellent decision too!