Schad

Welcome to the fray, guys.

Out of curiosity, what circumstance are you expecting that would require pulling off a FAN?

[quote name='Kill Joy' timestamp='1323282321' post='2867443'] BN blitzing with the best of them, Im sure you and Asg will have fun enough for the rest of us in PF sidelined [/quote] If no one counters, you could always merge into us for a week or two. Majority of you might not be able to actually hit anyone, but still...Kage would get nuked. Repeatedly.

[quote name='bakamitai' timestamp='1323237369' post='2866999'] Don't forget about Vlad! [/quote] Yeah, we're basically just the mop-up crew here.

I think I might just enjoy this.

[quote name='GulagArchipelago' timestamp='1323229657' post='2866676'] Didn't WAPA declare on STA...? Did I miss their DoW on Polar? [/quote] Nope, you're right; WAPA hasn't declared on Polar. This is...different. Edit: [quote]@gulag- Polar declared on WAPA in the Aztec DoW thread. [/quote] Missed that, and the lack of Polar-WAPA wars didn't suggest it.

Save some war for us, dammit.

On behalf of the last (I think) remaining alliance with a vaguely ninja-related theme, I approve of this here ninjin'. Ninjii them good and strong, Olympus.

[quote name='KagetheSecond' timestamp='1323070985' post='2863486'] But why did OMFG, Argent, BN and GRE move to pink?? [/quote] Ordinary Momma's Boys Frightened by Gnats, Argentlewomen, Basketball Ninnies, and Shamelins. Obviously.

If NpO held off on asking for RIA's assistance until yesterday, it's hard to fault RIA for entering when they did. Cannot say that I'm a fan of the strategy as it has unfolded to date, but such is life.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1322987739' post='2862032'] I'm commenting on the lies and misinformation people are spreading that ARES' DMoW or MoW surrendered. [/quote] Those 'lies and misinformation' are coming from the bio of the nation involved and ARES' Wiki, respectively. I understand that those sources are incorrect, but that's hardly on the people who believed ARES-centric sources of information when looking for information about ARES.

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1322981329' post='2861913'] I'm going to take a wild guess and hope that he is not Deputy Minister of War for ARES and that the Bio is really outdated. [/quote] If their wiki is to believed, you're correct...because he's listed there as their full Minister of War.

That's, uh...quite a blitz you've got going on there.

Grudge Match/Grudge War/whatever works for me. Alternatively, What the Fark.

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1322774160' post='2858458'] [i]Random Insanity[/i] Alliance? [/quote] Did they merge with someone to form the Association of Political Suicide Enthusiasts, or is it just a re-branding?

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1322766077' post='2858353'] I cant answer the real reasons behind this. and I sincerely dont care. In fact, I think TOP and Polar should have fought to solve their differences even earlier. The truth is that people want to take this opportunity to fulfill their own political agenda. I think frankly speaking, nobody is naive enough to think that the calling for RIA to join the war is really based on moral outrage. Are you? [/quote] I'm sure many people are. Me? Prior to the signing of this treaty, it seemed fairly likely that the war would stay localized; that part of it isn't really the problem, much though I'd enjoy a war. It's the maddening fact that I have no earthly clue as to why these two parties have done this; I've been waiting for an "aha!" moment, when the grand strategy is revealed and everything made sense, but that apparently isn't coming. It's not moral outrage...it's the fact that -- if what people on your side of things have said is true -- RIA has done pretty grievous harm to their otherwise decent reputation simply to sit on the sidelines, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1322764762' post='2858318'] to read someone in TPF posting a long text on how immoral and coward RIA is for not jumping in the war, and at the same time "oh but our treaty is non chaining" makes me vomit. [/quote] According to both STA and TPF, they have had an understanding from day one that TPF would not be expected to burn for Polar. Here, RIA and NpO signed a treaty seemingly in response to a threat against the latter, both parties had a grand couple of days waxing about the lack of testicular fortitude shown by a third party (that was never declaring on that date anyway) while making statements about their commitment to facing threats together...and less than a week later, proceeded to e-lawyer the hell out of the document. You don't see a difference there? Even if Polar has asked RIA to stay out of it, this whole situation makes absolutely no sense. Why rush through the treaty in response to a potential event, burning a bridge elsewhere in the process, if they weren't going to use it when that event unfolded? Why match the treaty with a ~*CaLlOuT*~ if that was even a possibility? Why call in other allies, but not RIA? The only [i]logical[/i] explanation is that RIA and NpO fully intended for the treaty to be invoked, but another party or parties have put on the brakes, at least temporarily. However, you guys are starting to convince me that it is indeed simply one of the most illogical series of decisions I've seen made in this world. Which is unfortunate, because I don't really hold RIA in poor esteem.

[quote name='Krashnaia' timestamp='1322736606' post='2858091'] The irony here is that the people who could rightifuly call out RIA, their allies, NpO, have no problem with RIA's course of action. And the people yelling like a rejected teenager, are the guys who support the attack against NpO. On a normal place, a lynching mob would not complain about the bystanders not stepping in to help the lynched. But Planet Bob is not a normal place. [/quote] It's hardly surprising that people are somewhat less than impressed when a week brings a seamless transition from this: [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1321999778' post='2849268'] How does it not make sense? We have the same people trying to kill us both, so if they start going after either one of us, we will stand together. [/quote] to this: [quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1322720081' post='2857884'] No.. the general strategy used during wars is let's think and look at our options maybe theres a better way to help our ally then to just honor a treaty because its there, even though they really don't need the extra back-up at the moment on the alliances attacking them. [/quote] ...and from "sup TOP, come at me!" bravado to "they don't really need our assistance too badly, and this isn't really our war". I'm not sure how anyone can be shocked that people haven't exactly responded with nods of understanding to that sudden change in tack.

RIA is the easy target here, but I do wonder how much of the delay owes to them, and how much owes to the coalition behind them. They aren't a new alliance, and there's little doubt that they are aware that signing a MD-level treaty and then opting not to invoke it in the same week is the sort of thing that leaves an indelible mark on one's reputation; I cannot imagine that they signed it without being prepared to act when TOP followed through. On the "we have a NAP with IRON and don't match up range-wise with TOP" front...if that's the key stumbling block, is there anyone who'd make for a more optimal opponent? If so, perhaps something can be arranged.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322520397' post='2855119'] IIRC hasn't FOK also done this? [/quote] FOK announced that they would do so during WWE, but it didn't come to that. Whether they have at another point, I'm not sure.

[quote name='King Croixy' timestamp='1322463446' post='2854593'] Considering I'm one of the people who sent reps, then cancelled the foreign aid offer before I attacked, I believe this. [/quote] [quote]to get one thing clear we never paid the reps. Merely just offered them. [/quote] So you or your government decided that the situation merited reparations, offered them, and then promptly canceled? This seems poorly reasoned.

Shouldn't be a surprise; after winter came early, it's only natural for there to be a refractory period. Neither Polar nor RIA are spring chickens...can't expect them to be ready to go again soon after.

[quote name='NeoGandalf' timestamp='1322438357' post='2854066'] I think the problem has become not so much the war itself, but rather that PS would do such a thing as give LE the flag (thus Clash's points about alliance politics). [/quote] This shouldn't have resulted in LE being handed the flag. If, that is, after we announced exactly what we were doing, and then pointed out that the slots were there to spend 10+ days nuking every member of LE and PS into oblivion, people had actually taken us up on the offer.

Exactly; there's a big difference between a reason for war and the right to wage war. In theory, the justness of the war determines whether others support it, and to some extent that does happen around here...however, often as not the treaty framework that we've created ends up superseding that. It's a tradeoff that may be necessary; if the primary determinant in who goes where is whether a declared war is definitively just, the rational course for any actor is to avoid taking any risks that could cause one to end up with the short straw...both ensuring that you don't leave another party fully justified in rolling you (read: doing absolutely nothing), and avoiding making a declaration yourself on anything less than ironclad grounds. That's great in a real world international system, where the goal is to have as little war as possible; it's not nearly as great in this game, where eternal world peace would be a death blow.

[quote name='Vukland' timestamp='1322374942' post='2853474'] [/quote] If it hasn't already been established that I'm not very bright: I'm not very bright. Had two opponents, both running out of nukes...forgot that yours were the ones that were HNMS'd.