AAAAAAAAAAGGGG

Looks like my signature, alright.

Subconflicts of main conflicts in the wiki showed up relatively recently (DH-NPO) and I feel that was mainly for political purposes for people who wanted to claim that it was a "separate war" to help further their cause when the fact of the matter is the "subconflict" wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the primary conflict. I guess if you want to call it a "front" that's fine. But I fail to see why it's so important to have such a small article get it's own single page when it could be easily all put on the same main war page.

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1337630755' post='2970338'] You talk big. Why aren't you rolling tanks out right now yourself? I am not scared and never will be. The address hasn't changed, come knock when your ready. [/quote] You talked big during the DH-NPO war stating that TPF had better growth programs than Umbrella. Who has more than double the NS of TPF now? Nonetheless, congrats on your (rather controversial!) tenure, Nordreich.

Its great to see Polar expand their foreign affairs past SF and XX!

Yosh should do great. <3 Argent

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335379108' post='2959017'] Tayloj: seriously, come up with a better retort [/quote] He can't. He's brain dead with an IQ of 20

Any alliance that merged with another (or two) to create a new alliance isn't really one that disbands (PC, iFOK, Athens, GR, and =LOST= for example). I'd only really count ones that either had a disbandment notice (LUE, or Genmay) or faded away into obscurity (old GOONS). An alliance being absorbed? That's a bit debatable, I guess.

Vlad probably wouldn't have gotten peace if a global war hadn't broke out towards the end of his run in which most non-neutral alliances aligned against GOD and SF in general, and he was able to hop on to that surrender train. I don't think it's a good comparison to the GOONS / Kaskus war. That, and the whole "having 11 billion on hand to wage war" isn't exactly something current Kaskus nations can do.

While I have no issue with reforming alliances, I always wonder what the motive is to restore one that's been gone for 5 years, and the majority of the members have left this world.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334031084' post='2950605'] Never. [/quote] Nope! Scratchy got Itchy in one episode. It was the episode Burning Down the Mouse.

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1333595426' post='2948514'] QFT. There are no victims here. Only the consequences of raiding the wrong party. GOONS will "win" this conflict due to number superiority, but the members of Mongols/Kaskus will have secured a solid "don't $%&@ with us without expecting a vicious kick in the face" reputation. [/quote] Additionally, they'll secure a reputation of being unpredictable and tactless (unless you think they already had that to begin with, which is fine by me). Both of these qualities are not desirable in allies.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1333474419' post='2947890'] 1. Admin decides if the rules of Planet Bob have been violated and those who violate them are subject to punishment. Not everyone ultimately gets punished for a variety of reasons (e.g. lack of sufficient evidence), but those who do like Derwood should know better.[/quote] Your entire premise of him "doing it wrong" is based on the fact that you think he's in the wrong for attacking Hime Themis for fun, not the rule-breaking. My entire point was that there is no wrong way to play this game. You play as you want. To tell someone they're playing the game wrong is just you being pompous. [quote] 2. Within the player community cultural norms have developed over time, thus there are concepts of "good", "evil", right and wrong, what is considered sufficient punishment based on the level of transgression, what constitutes an appropriate or inappropriate theme for a nation or an alliance, etc. Indeed, alliances like GOONS depend on being perceived as being "evil" as part of their persona, GPA depends on people generally having disdain for the attacking of neutrals, and so forth. Those who violate perceived cultural norms are subject to having those violations pointed out and as we have seen time and time again, are tried in the court of public opinion. There are also those like Schattenmann that fancy themselves to be "professional" commentators on world affairs. If there is nothing wrong with playing "evil" as you insist, then there is nothing wrong with people pointing that evil out to the world, making you look foolish for being hypocritical, or even organizing alliances against you and removing your pieces from the game board on the basis that eliminating evil is good. You can't insist that people allow you to exist and then attempt to restrict their words/actions simply because you disapprove.[/quote] It's fine to point out evils or hypocrisy in an IC sense (which everyone, including myself have done), but telling people they're playing "wrong" in an OOC sense means that you're inferring that your playing style is superior over theirs. The reality is what I enjoy will be different than you, Yuri, Hime Themis, or any player in this game. People are perfectly fine playing the game as "being evil" and will expect to be called out on it. Being that this is an OOC forum, your comments come off as condescending like "I am the better player, you can only have fun if you play my way!" which is a tad ridiculous. [quote] tl;dr - If you insist on donning the black hat, people will root against you. Karma is a !@#$%*. [/quote] Which is fine... in an IC sense!

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1333430683' post='2947699'] But by promoting the rogue attack on a neutral, are you not forcing your views on a nation who has no interest in war? What makes you the bastion of CN to condone such an action as just? [/quote] There's a difference between promoting and tolerating. Like I said, everyone is open to play the game how they want. If someone wants to go rogue when they quit, they have every right to do so. It doesn't make it inherently right, or wrong. If that's how they get enjoyment out of their last days in this game, they can engage. It's like playing Starcraft back in the day and joining a 7 humans vs 1 computer (aka the "comp stomp") where all the human players ally up and expect an easy victory against the measly computer, but one player backstabs at the end of the game and destroys the rest of the human players just to grief them? It's kinda like that. I'm quite sure Hime Themis understands the risks of being the #1 nation. That will naturally make him a target for rogues, and I'm sure he's accepted that with the way he builds his nation. [quote] ChairmanHal can speak for himself, but it didn't read to me that he cares in the slightest about the rogue attack one way or the other. All it seems he is saying is that the move was clearly done to make a show, but it was frankly unimpressive. BOB has been there, done that in terms of attacking leading nations. If you want to make a show, do something impressive. Everyone cheering on the rogue attack just looks jealous of the stats. [/quote] Since the beginning of this game in 2006, there hasn't been much change to CN in terms of mechanics. When you leave either you fade way (like several thousand players already have), or go out with a bang. So everything that you can do, has been done. Everything will be a "been there, done that" in that aspect too because what new things are there to do?

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1333427271' post='2947673'] Better yet, be professional and don't cheer on people who are doing it wrong. [/quote] The whole point of this game is that there are many different ways to play it - neutrality, isolationist, bloc building, tech raiding, tech dealing, rogue attacks, what have you. They're all within the means of the game (i.e. not rule breaking). Different people take pleasure in different activities. People being neutral enjoy it (for reasons I understand, but disagree with), and Yuri obviously got fun out of the rogue attacks. So I ask - who are you to say what is the wrong way to play? What makes you, ChairmanHal, the bastion of CN to decide what is the right and wrong in this game?

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1332980046' post='2944609'] I believe we already have: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109975&view=findpost&p=2944149 Hopefully, we'll see a bit more [/quote] Sadly, that was reused from a previous war The ante would have to be upped in this war for more to appear, though.

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1332959920' post='2944408'] They're midwar ghosts, not NEW. I have no love for Kaskus or those who would ghost it to hurt my dear allies in GOONS and my friends in Umbrella. I'm not going to pretend to be neutral because some members wanted to hop AAs to get some fighting in. [/quote] Well, it remains to be seen if they jump back to NEW when the war is over. My guess is that most, if not all, will hop right back to NEW with no consequences or accountability for what they did.

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1332959329' post='2944401'] Well when a direct ally of GOONS cheers for Kaskus (thus violating your treaty, btw) and then calls me out for supposed wrongdoings, I get a little upset. [/quote] I didn't really interpret his comment as cheering for Kaskus (edit: it sounded like sarcasm to me). It's more the people we're hitting are NEW members ghosting Kaskus. So in that aspect - we are hitting NEW. And Europa (at least, you and Bernkastel) are cheering for that, which is confusing to say the least.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332934238' post='2944288'] I don't think anyone is upset with it, but it does show MK's attitude towards NEW somewhat and how you guys would deal with this if Flak got his way. [/quote] I'm pretty sure Flak isn't alone in his thinking, so I'm not too worried!

I don't get why people are so upset with Flak's post. My assumption when reading that was that he'd like NEW to be destroyed for reasons completely unrelated (for which I could only [i]assume[/i] there are many) to this Kaskus / GOONS conflict at hand.

[quote name='Bernkastel' timestamp='1332910339' post='2944134'] Have a good time crushing these guys, Umbrella. I'm slightly jealous. [/quote] You'd be slightly jealous of being able to destroy a member in an alliance you're MADP'd to? Just because he ghosted in support? Well, then...

You should recruit blogduc.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1330157790' post='2928026'] what is your new purpose of existing if not to defend polar [/quote] Defend that other bad alliance they're tied to, TPF.

Specific individuals kept telling GOONS how awful they were and shouldn't exist when GOONS did their NOIR application years back (when Salithus was leader!). It was actually pretty dumb that it came to that over a color sphere treaty, but that's certain alliances for you.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1328564255' post='2915574'] Yeah but seriously you don't know the true extent of how bad of a leader I was. I feel like this competition will be a farce without input. [/quote] Don't worry, Umbrella knows how bad of a leader you were. There will be plenty of input from all sides.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1328562296' post='2915556'] If only I could campaign for myself. I think i'm still goblin'd over there. [/quote] For the record, anyone campaigning for themselves on the boards will be banned for it, similar to the ruling of last year's WPE contest rules. Cheerleading yourself is just annoying and bad posting. [quote name='Altheus' timestamp='1328531447' post='2915429'] Just what CN needs, another unpopularity contest to chase people away. Hiding behind statements like "everyone gets to vote" and "it's just a bit of fun" to try and disassociate itself from what it is, schoolyard bullying. Wake up. [/quote] If you can find several players who were 'chased away' for the WAE and WPE contests, please tell me, otherwise this argument has no merit without any evidence backing it. If leaders are too scared to take insults that their leadership may be poor, then they really shouldn't be in leadership positions, because having a little thick skin is a [i]necessary[/i] skill to have as a government leader.