Felix von Agnu

[quote name='VeritasK' timestamp='1288329332' post='2496111'] Ahh. Then that stipulation is where I will choose to take offense. It shows that you are not looking for reparations in the physical sense of "We Take From You" but instead in the emotional sense where you humiliate him grievously by forcing him to pay out tech into 2011 and equivalently taking him out of the game for the same amount of time. While if allies could support him without the threat of war to show their displeasure with GOONS the frightening possibility that people would step up to cover 1,500 worth of Tech in a week or two would stand as a testament of support for Methrage.... But I guess having Methrage personally send the Tech is for the "best" for GOONS so..... Yea. [/quote] Repairations are equal part rebuilding and punishment. If he chose to do the crime, he can do the tech selling.

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1288281928' post='2495250'] Tbh I think TFD really got the short end of the stick here. [/quote] This is pretty much how I feel. I can't say I'd want to treaty GLoF anytime.

[quote name='Tohru' timestamp='1288227779' post='2494662'] Don't really get how they would know any more. [/quote] If you want to tell your side of the story, same offer applies to you. (I don't really want to read this thread again and try to piece it together, so I'd really appreciate one comprehensive PM or Query.) Edit: Each side is going to have a different take. As I say, somewhere in the middle is where the truth is.

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1288226728' post='2494629'] I answered this question [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93728&st=180&p=2493407&#entry2493407]earlier on[/url]. [i]First[/i] they planned a coup, [i]then[/i] they were caught, and only [i]then[/i] did they try (and fail) at legitimate impeachment. [/quote] Well, people have made it seem like the coup was actually an impeachment attempt (or discussing of one). Its really hard to keep both sides stories straight here. [quote name='Tohru' timestamp='1288226807' post='2494631'] True colors of what? We didn't think we had a good leader, we tried to impeach. We left when it failed, because we're not going to just sit there in an alliance with a leader we don't like and can't get rid of. [/quote] It appears like you just decided to pack up and go home when you didn't get your way. [quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1288226840' post='2494633'] I fully agree with you Felix, it was well within their right to set an impeachment process in motion. It is the way they went about it that I object to, and how it all ended. Those are details not revealed here (yet? ), but I can safely say that there was a deliberate attempt to hurt the alliance while they were still a part of it. And no matter what you think of it should be named 'coup' or not, I think it can be agreed upon that such a thing should not be tolerated and that it is understandable that people who stayed in SOS feel an injustice has been committed here. [/quote] Well, I can't say I know the way they went about it, so I guess I can't really comment on it any further. Thank you for your response, however. Edit: I am kinda curious about the details, if you want send me a PM or catch me on IRC. I can promise anything said I will keep secret

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1288225472' post='2494611'] For the record, the impeachment process was set in motion on the 13th, but apparently the planning and grouping took place days earlier. Maybe the word 'coup' wasn't mentioned (at that stage), but when it walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck, wouldn't you? As I mentioned in my previous post in this topic, those who are now in NsO showed their true colours the moment they left SOS after the impeachment vote failed. [/quote] I pretty much just have a question on this part. How is a legitimate (as in the way the charter specifies) removal of power a coup? I've always been under the assumption that a legitimate means of removal was not a coup. Along the same lines, how is conversing about it a coup? I see you throwing that word around, but if they were talking about doing it by the book then it's not a coup. I do agree with your last part though, they showed their true colors when they left.

[quote name='Nobody Expects' timestamp='1288214898' post='2494455'] MK turned the other cheek and tossed all their allies onto the fire to keep themselves safe after the UJW, thats not withstanding pressure, that's being weak as hell and caving into it because you don't have the balls to stand up for what is right. MK are not an example of what to be, they are an example of what not to be. [/quote] Well, I wasn't around for UjW, so I was basing my opinion around the period around NoCB where NPO was pretty obviously gunning for MK.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288214482' post='2494446'] You recently announced the cancellation of your GATO ODP, correct? I was merely saying that if he doesn't like ODP cancellations being announced, he may as well !@#$%* in them all. [/quote] It was an MDP.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288210616' post='2494405'] Well go bug VE then. [/quote] Wait....what?

I really wish I had the money for one of those. I swear I'll get around to getting an AR-15 one of these years.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1288198570' post='2494315'] You can name over 200 alliances who were beat down by a coalition for more than two weeks in nuclear war? Good for you Haf, I surely couldn't do the same. To imply that MK never faced great hardship is naive. To outright say it is ignorant. [/quote] In the interest of fairness, he is partially right. I don't think hardship can be defined as just war though. MK certainly had a lot of pressure with NPO eyeing them up for destruction, a lot more pressure than other alliances have faced. They may not have had the trial by fire that a lot of alliances have, but they have survived the trial by pressure and have done rather well for themselves.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1288053353' post='2493200'] [color="#0000FF"]Did you really sign a treaty because a member in each of your respective alliances liked each other? How stupid. Using that logic, should the GOONS sign a treaty with NSO because of Nippy's undying admiration for me?[/color] [/quote] Make a friend in the other Pandora's Box alliances and you too could join, and wear those sloth sigs unironically! :v In all honestly, if it weren't a joke treaty the clause would be monumentally stupid.

This is Sirius business. Edit: Congrats to IAA!

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1288064111' post='2493306'] Vote with your feet and all that. [/quote] I think staying and trying to push the change he wants to see would be just as effective.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1287984203' post='2492586'] Who is this "Chaos Armed" and how is he qualified to be your Admiral [/quote] Sounds like a shifty fellow to me. I don't think he could be trusted to lead a pile of leaves with a rake. :v

I wonder why alliances put provisions in their charter for removing power from certain individuals. It seems whenever someone invokes it a splinter cell breaks off, or the person that is being removed calls it a coup and starts purging the alliances. Or both. I'd wish the parties luck, but calling for an impeachment,and then leaving when it fails just seems childish to me. If I'm wrong with my interpretation of this situation I'll gladly change my view. Until then NsO just seems like some petty splinter.

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1287967785' post='2492360'] There comes a time in the life of every alliance when it must rebuild its embassy row and take a new path in diplomacy. The enterprise welcomes Diplomacy beneath the big cramp. The New Guy bolts past the agent. The New Guy speculates near Diplomacy. The New Guy dries Diplomacy into the traced shape. How does The New Guy consent in the wartime? How does Diplomacy skip? A bell provokes the matching bread within the barrel. The odd blob punishes Diplomacy. The intolerance mirrors The New Guy. Interesting choice in deleting the accounts of the diplomats, but if there are storage concerns, I guess it's necessary. [/quote] It took me way too long to realize that it's Halloween season. Anyways, interesting move. I have to say I don't see the point behind deleting accounts, but hey it's your forums, go nuts.

[quote name='Venser' timestamp='1287614019' post='2489029'] I guess that's the part that gets me. Why would you "not be nice" to people who are unfamiliar with the way things work as opposed to being friendly and educating them? [/quote] Hit me up sometime (PM or IRC), I can tell ya stuff to get y'all started here.

Good luck Septer! Nice to see you back in action!

[quote name='Schad' timestamp='1287094808' post='2484723'] So they get a protectorate with DT, and a treaty with an alliance currently involved with in a war. Taking a wild guess that at least one of those won't make it through the day. [/quote] [quote name='General Ozujsko' timestamp='1287094895' post='2484725'] Thanks for letting us know, kingknon. [/quote] I think we can all guess what treaty is going to die.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1287073535' post='2484491'] I think in general, attempting to USE a peripheral ally in a (albeit stupidly) misguided attempt to try to force a bloc of alliances down a particular path, is a VERY good CB. The problem is with the rest of the world, not with me. The problem with this world is that EVERYONE is scared to so much as sneeze due to political fallout, and NOBODY every acts to safeguard their soverignty 1st. Everyone cries and cries 'Wahhhhh my soveriegnty." But NOBODY will act to protect that soveriegnty unless a calculator tells them they will win. So, YES, i think my CB would have been solid. And NO, the problem isnt with me, it is with everyone else. [/quote] Sometimes political fallout happens for a reason, like a poor CB. If ODN is sovereign, they can tell UPN off if they don't want to be in any conflict they create. Hell, ODN acted against UPN's sovereignty as well. Are you saying you would agree with such a CB? Also, the reason people don't act unless they think/know they will win is blindingly simple. You attack and lose, you are in a far worse spot than before, and you have fewer means to protect your sovereignty.

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1287008349' post='2483896'] I would never argue that its all that artistic, but why would propaganda with its quality deserve so much criticism? [/quote] Allow me to share my understanding in the traditional GOONS way; MS Paint. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Swordmaster291/graphlol.jpg[/IMG]

[quote name='Franz Ferdinand' timestamp='1286994012' post='2483718'] We meet again, oOoMidooOo, but from where? Anyway, I honestly can't see this alliance going anywhere, to be honest. [/quote] Hopefully it goes straight down. It's not going up though. Seriously, that charter made me want to claw out my own eyes, not to mention the misspelled word in the 'tittle'. O/ tittles!

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1286983831' post='2483624'] You will be glad to know RV, that I tried to push for us to actually USE the Stratego logs as a CB on a few of the alliances present. My reasoning was, there was a group of alliances who coddled UPN and wanted to spin their incident into a war, as if they were doing it to help UPN stand up for itself. Then, when UPN was gone from the room, they immediately broke down into !@#$ talk about UPN. To me, that spelled a clear intent at manipulation of a fring CnG ally, and an effort to ensure that CnG fell in line with them. I believe it to be a valid CB, and will , till the day the world ends, believe we should have rolled those alliances who immediately began trolling UPN when they left the channel. [/quote] I think you lost me somewhere. You think that people wanting to use an alliance because of bloc ties is a CB?

I'm a bit torn about this to be honest. I wouldn't like an ally making a deal behind my back, and undermining whatever it was I was trying to do (no matter how suicidal), but then again I wouldn't be trying to manipulate said ally into defending me. I think this cancellation works well for both sides. Then again, I'm surprised UPN canceled this instead of just saying they considered it to be an ODP. EDIT: [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1286807036' post='2481496'] Other people who don't use puppet alliances don't sign treaties with alliances that aren't staffed or functioning. [/quote] Alliances never lose people, or experience reduced functioning ever? I'm sure many alliances out there disagree with this.

Finally! A 10.10.10 announcement, and an awesome one at that. Congrats AOD Brigade, I know you have some awesome people there.