Felix von Agnu

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1294469016' post='2568362'] [color="#0000FF"]VE has never had the balls to just come out and openly PZI people. Instead they prefer to offer completely absurd and overly harsh terms [i]knowing[/i] that the individual in question will not accept. That way, when they get called on the practice, they can claim to have given the individual a "chance at peace" when in reality they knew the terms would not be accepted. But that doesn't matter, as VE's justification is usually enough to satisfy most bystanders. Not me, however. I see right through you VE. You are quite transparent. It is extremely clear what is going on here. The truth is visible to all who wish to see it, because VE is quite transparent, and anyone who wishes to can see right through them.[/color] [/quote] Oh my god you got us! Tech deals are such awful terms! We should have him pay the tech in reps without giving him compensation. That would be acceptable, right?

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1294467874' post='2568325'] Well! That's very sweet of you to be thinking about Damsky's rebuilding. See, Damsky? They have your best interests at heart. [/quote] Less his best interests, more a deal that everyone can walk away from better than where they started off the negotiations from.

Holy !@#$. Really?! You are whining about having to do tech deals, TECH DEALS, for reps. You actually gain money by doing them. This isn't PZI, this is attention whoring. Also, hello to all the VE haters who won't read anything.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294467204' post='2568299'] He was at war when you accepted him, this is indisputable. [/quote] Well, I guess I learned a lesson about assumptions. Anyways, while he was at war, it was assisting VE against you; after you attacked our protectorate.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294465140' post='2568253'] He has hit us while wearing the CSN AA and then fled to VE. [/quote] The fact he was let in shows that he wasn't at war for a period of time. Don't blame him for your own alliance's failure to deal out it's justice.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294463698' post='2568213'] Since when does VE decide what is and isn't an alliance? That has been the main argument of your side forever. A bit hypocritical no? [/quote] Maybe it is the beer talking, but how the $%&@ is this about what is and is not an alliance? Protip: it's not. Also, Penkala may be a rogue by your standards, but he is a VE member. By you hitting him without our consent, you are a rogue yourself or its an alliance declaration. Either way, I only wish I could help smear you across the ground.

I would like to give this a hearty 'meh' and a shrug.

Typo, Invicta is currently on the Red sphere. The Red Sphere, as you may know, has a loooong history of diversity and understanding. We could never understand.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1294445278' post='2567850'] Well, I suppose NSO's response would depend on what type of precedent you choose to set here. [/quote] That is a pretty weak answer. What would your action be if the situation arose right now, with no precedent?

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294443664' post='2567812'] You are either being deliberatly obtuse, or are simply that ignorant. VE is claiming the right to answer attacks against our members. Yellow can keep a weapons grade stupid senator if they want, I couldn't care. But the minute he does something stupid to a VE member he has a problem with VE. [/quote] Lets get our senator to sanction someone in NSO, that was have a negative history and experiences with. Then we'll see what he says.

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1294443149' post='2567804'] No, it wouldn't be more appropriate. As the King serves for life and is not elected. The Dukes, however, are elected. Furthermore, we're a Zelda Themed alliance and I'm 99.9% sure that Hyrule is a Kingdom. We're a constitutional monarchy really, or a dictamocracy, take your pick. [/quote] I'll tell you what. There is a movie in the Land of Tricks, called Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I'll loan you a copy, so you can watch it and get back to me. The joke pretty much went over your head as far as I can tell.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1294439750' post='2567742'] To disregard past history and interactions Penkala has had with the yellow team would be naive. It is not irrelevant. A willy-nilly sanction is one thing. One based on past experiences and history is quite a different beast. So, as you suggest Bob, it is quite simple. VE is claiming a right to determine how senators on yellow may handle perceived transgressions against their team or more specifically, that outside alliances may determine how other teams conduct their affairs. A dangerous precedent. A dangerous one indeed. [/quote] For future negeotiations regarding NSO and rogues, I hope the other party takes your history with such things and just declares war. It would spare a lot of headaches for themselves. You know, based on history and experience you'll just aid the rogue anyways. The sanction was not willy nilly. It was the result of a yellow senator have skin so paper thin a leaf on the breeze could cut it open. There was no threat of action from Penkala, just boasting. If boasting is worthy of a sanction, well I know a lot of nations that could be sanctioned.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1294432629' post='2567597'] Because an individual "repents", receives a military pardon, and decides to join an alliance does not necessarily absolve him or her of all wrongs. Further, no one is required to offer full absolution. Just because Penkala is in VE, does not mean he has to be showered with rainbows and muffins everywhere he goes. [/quote] Should the alliance who does the pardoning really be able to decide to retract it at any time they wish? I would think that once you release an offender from their punishment that both parties could go their separate ways until another situation arises. That aside, it isn't like VE is showing with Penkala with muffins. We value our muffins greatly. Instead we are granting him the basic protection a member of any alliance should enjoy. What good is an alliance if nations can be attacked (whether by war or sanctions), and not have any sort of protection? It's not like we asked VA to forgive Penkala for everything, just to not attack his nation without any real cause. [quote] However, if the senators alliance agrees he is acting outside their wishes, they can simply not protect him. If this is the case, problem solved, eh? [/quote] Yup. It should be the standard rogue handling, reps or the offending nation gets kicked out. [quote] Contrary to popular belief, there is no "rule" or "code of conduct" a senator must follow. Nor is there a rule which states that a senator must always act at the whims of requests. He is popularly elected by people on his team, some within his alliance, others not. As far as senatorial powers go, he is only responsible to his electors. [/quote] While true, there is an unwritten code of conduct of sorts. It has been seen before when maroon senators didn't sanction rogues upon request. I remember some sort of outcry there. Maybe I have the events wrong though, it has been awhile and I didn't pay particularly close attention. As far as the senatorial powers go, the electors are also responsible for the actions of the senator. [quote] If we want to be silly, we can continue to slam our fists in the table and yell "foul". Otherwise, we can all appeal VA's reason and the senator in question and hope for the best. It sounds like this is already in the works, which is probably for the best of all concerned. [/quote] It is a good thing JWConner is not their voice of reason. I am curious to see what the outcome will be however. EDIT: Or this: [quote name='janax' timestamp='1294433099' post='2567612'] Alternatively, blow them up for starting an aggressive war against VE. Always an option, just sayin' [/quote]

I think kingdom's should base their government on a spirit lady handing out swords from a pond, not voting. Maybe the Democracy of Hyrule is more appropriate?

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294427219' post='2567502'] lol, running away. Seriously, just get over yourself already. If i wanted to run away, i wouldnt have ran away to an MDoAP partner of VA's who'd have gone to war to back them up if they were attacked. Please....I beg of you....think before you type. [/quote] Great Advice! It is a shame you don't follow it.

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294425288' post='2567462'] Normally I don't tell myself anything before I go to sleep at night. That's a little creepy. Usually I just fall asleep watching How I Met Your Mother reruns or ESPNews. But hey, if you talk to yourself when you go to sleep, I'm not going to judge. [/quote] I tell myself bedtime stories. I don't see anything wrong with that.

How the hell is this such a big issue? This pretty much looks like a normal rogue issue, and was handled in the normal way. (I may have missed something, I admit I skipped a few pages.)

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294419442' post='2567370'] Me leaving VA had absolutely nothing to do with Penkala or this incident. I'm the founder of the alliance. I'm not afraid of a little war. Leaving VA was a decision based on many things, and this was far from any of them. [/quote] Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night, chief.

Well, the intent was good I guess....too bad the actual message kinda fails.

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1294400193' post='2567182'] JBone leads tpf again? When did this happen? [/quote] I was wondering this exact same thing.

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1294414575' post='2567309'] Where was this sentiment 2 years ago my how things have changed. [/quote] It was there. Just not in the places where it made any sort of difference.

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294413344' post='2567298'] Edit: JWConner probably ragequit VA because he knows that they're going to have to give in to me on this one. [/quote] Maybe we are actually going to roll them, and he wants to save his infra. I guess its also possible he realized that VA is pretty much inept and beyond salvage.

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294409890' post='2567261'] lol. You VE guys really got some issues. How bout you read my latest post (http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=96687&view=findpost&p=2567234) and then come back to me? K? [/quote] All I saw was backpedaling so fast it should have created a sonic boom. After all the arguing you've done that being Penkala means you deserve bad stuff happening to you, you magically say, "I'm joking LOLZ!" and expect everyone to ignore the drivel you spouted before? You also picked a convenient time to change alliances too....

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294388179' post='2567096'] Well, VE shouldn't care. As I've said, it's just Penkala. [/quote] Next time I want to hit some loud-mouthed moron who has something coming to him, I'll look you up. See ya in the future pal.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294378096' post='2566859'] Past history does not entitle you to go after someone automatically, if it did we'd see a lot more "I don't like you" DoW's on the OWF. Hint, I'd be in favor of hitting half the people in this thread just based on the utter trash they've been posting. [/quote] Let's do it.