Ivan Moldavi

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1290502506' post='2521111'] Moralists who have no idea what moralism is are my favorites. [/quote] I was thinking the same thing actually. As one of the amoralists here, considering that I have never claimed to be acting in any way other than blatant self interest for the aim of pushing my personal agendas, I can state definitively that while it may be correct to state that the direct actions undertaken by MK in regards to the seeking of financial restitution were not specifically moralist or intended to cause moral recriminations, the external actions via threats and otherwise meowing because your backroom dealings were made public were aimed at pushing for a moral conclusion. Considering the failure of that endeavor the further meowing in regards to diplomats being expelled from an alliance, which is the sovereign right of any alliance, in an attempt to gather some form of public sympathy for your plight reeks of moralist platitudes. "They wro[i]u[/i]nged us so we must go to the public boards and cry about it to the world" seems at the very least to be what you were decrying NSO about just a few days previously. To claim moral or righteous indignation and then state that you want to ignore the moralist position is a faulty process. Now, as one that has used the [i]perception[/i] of righteous indignation in attempts to prompt moralists into action in the past I can readily see the value of such approaches so long as the message remains constant. You either embrace the position that you were wro[i]u[/i]nged and run with it or you don't start the race to begin with. MK seems to have gotten a few feet from the finish line and given up. I always preferred to create my own demons and enemies within this realm because they were easiest to manipulate and direct in regards to their subsequent activities. MK has some that are also good at this sort of indirect justification but I believe that the "moralist" subconcious that so many of you possess prevents you from acting on it appropriately or fully. tl;dr Embrace the Dark Side.

I don't get the signatures. Aren't you guys the moralists these days? I mean I keep seeing you !@#$%*ing and moaning about people canceling trade circles or kicking out your diplomats and going on and on about how "it isn't right" that these things are happening to you. Are all the quotes, some of which are quite good, sarcasm?

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showtopic=13805 I always liked that Moderation fellow.

You know, this world could use a good Atlantic Alliance. (And more people that know the reference. ) Onward Atlantic! [img]http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9651/flaginq.png[/img]

Well, eventually you would have had to have at least one post that was either unoffensive or lacking in sufficient meowing. Congratulations.

[quote name='Professor Chaos' timestamp='1290181053' post='2517410'] Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't a number of people actually do that? I think this argument is comical. "How dare you cancel on us in peacetime when there's no threat to our security!? Everyone knows that you're not supposed to cancel on your allies until war is imminent and we're about to get curbstomped by a much larger enemy force!" [/quote] Indeed. And I believe the MK response was similar to what I have stated and what many here have stated from the NPO? It was your prerogative, just as it was NPO's prerogative to expel diplomats that they did not wish to have on their boards.

[quote name='Arthur Blair' timestamp='1290047456' post='2516390'] This is a strawman. Are you trying to claim that we did dictate what another alliance did? The same goes for Ivan a few posts back. Your attempt at spinning this into the Kingdom having done something DIRE beyond a Baron posting a minor announcement thread is futile. And possibly just a little bit silly. [/quote] I know I missed a couple of days and this is a little late but you guys are going on and on about whether or not the NPO can remove diplomats but you guys just cancelled all your treaties. Couldn't all those alliances !@#$%* and moan that you had no right to do so? Of course not, [i]that[/i] would be silly.

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1290041227' post='2516271'] pay $12m and 250 tech. NOW. [/quote] I am fairly certain they would be waiting a very very long time for Pierconium to come up with that huge sum of cash.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1290040192' post='2516261'] You may have to pay for such a crime. [/quote] Well, at least they aren't the NPO, right?

It was my understanding than any alliance could (and does) kick diplomats that are unruly or rude on their boards. Is MK now declaring that this is against their new world order as well? I mean, I thought telling people that they had to compensate every member of a trade circle when a random nation cancelled was a bit of a stretch but this is a little ridiculous don't you think? Oh no...did I speak ill of MK? Oh my. Whatever shall I do? Thoughtcrime is death.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1289964165' post='2515611'] The reason I have outsourced the search for my agenda is to ease the demand on the koala-generated power and so that someone else can use the nation's computer. Some of the locals are dusting off their boomerangs which is usually a sign they are getting agitated. [/quote] Seems like you would have a shiv or two laying around to handle the natives...

[quote name='bros2' timestamp='1289961880' post='2515566'] you should be stripped of your medals and your pacifican flag. we all know that the first thing a pacifican learns in NPO Trolling School™ is to call ex-LUE members LUE sucm [/quote] Amen. Obligatory elaboration: Yes, I would hope that is what they are taught.

Maybe you should put the koalas to the lash and have them crank out a new one for you. I know you probably had to wait in line for three hours just to get on the village computer and type the OP so show no mercy.

The dingo stole your agenda!

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1289958180' post='2515464'] [font="Georgia"]Luckily, I'm not. But I get your point SW. [/font] [/quote] Why do you reply in Georgia? [font="Garamond"]I prefer Garamond.[/font] And yes, this is a serious question that is just as on-topic as most of the last 30+ pages. And just as relevant.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1289912907' post='2514537'] MK steps up to stir some fun up on planet Bob and you guys still complain? I for one welcome an announcement like this and hope for more in the near future. This place has gotten stale. [/quote] I would welcome it as well if it were not so "nice". Mushroom Kingdom seems to want to be the villain but they always get right to the edge and then they back down, like their mom is standing over their shoulder or something saying "What Would Jesus Do?" The world needs a good villain. Preferably one with guns. WWID?

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284'] People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition. Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up. [/quote] Perhaps it isn't that people have zero ambition, but that the ambition isn't conducive to political exchange or societal tumult. If those in power have the ambition of remaining in power to the extent that they will never, ever allow anything to happen that might cause an unfavorable end to that power (no risks/chances) - as Sardonic seems to suggest in regards to GOONS at least - then the end result is the same. Yes, there are always backroom discussions about who is hated, who has to be isolated, etc. etc. But ultimately so long as those in control only have the ambition to remain in control without ever taking any risks whatsoever in their actions and those opposing them remain as isolated pockets of dissent because they can not get their collective heads out of their asses to look beyond petty feuds then the "ambition of the complacent" will win the day.

[quote name='mrcalkin' timestamp='1289846083' post='2513679'] It seems to be a somewhat common theme amongst your alliance and a couple of others to lament the fact that people aren't doing things the old way anymore, and I see it as being a bit hypocritical considering every time someone from the NPO's of this world get nostalgic they decide to ignore how things actually happened. It's not like its limited to just yourself though, seeing the past through rose-tinted glasses is something most here (and myself) are guilty of. [/quote] I own no such glasses. I don't claim to have ever been a saint and never will. But I do know for a fact that I manufactured more enemies and empowered more opposition by design than would have existed otherwise to oppose me. I don't consider that nostalgia at all. It is simply a comment on how I used to do things and how it is different than the way things are done now. I never even said it was better, just different. My personal opinion is that it was so but that doesn't make it fact by any stretch of the imagination. I am certain that those in power will be just as happy when the world has diminished to the point where they are the only active communities in the Cyberverse because they have cool SPAM games on their offsites and the rest of the world is comprised of non-aligns or non-political alliances that never make it to the OWF. I personally have no desire to see that world. I have seen it happen "elsewhere" already and it is a dismal and boring place.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1289799792' post='2513404'] This new generation of leaders just can't seem to stir proper drama and fun. [/quote] I tend to agree. Even when I was at the top of my game I made sure to use my rhetoric and actions to goad the enemy into action periodically. Just being at the top of the hill with zero potential for opposition is incredibly boring to me. I guess that is different today. Today those at the top seem to think it is just grand to sit back, do nothing to enhance the overall quality of the discourse and collect their stats. To each his own I guess.

Here is a link to the actual discussion of the creation of the flag: [url="http://newpacificorder.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=region&action=display&thread=198"]My link[/url] That is a dead board from "elsewhere" circa 2003. Mars Sara is the Betsy Ross of Pacifica. Mentioned in fabled passing but not technically or historically known beyond that event. Mars Sara was rumored to be a spy from a rival organization at the time, having arrived shortly after Francos Spain came to power and disappearing when advancement was limited. Sir Paul should probably get more credit than he is given for the iconography of Pacifica.

Starfox101 is correct. No one here has ambition anymore. Those in control are so because they have mired themselves in so many treaties that they can't wipe their own asses without worrying about what someone else's allies may or may not think about it. Those that are not in control are so divided amongst themselves, worrying about petty !@#$%^&* grudges from 2-3 years ago that they will never get their act together enough to force change from below. Lose-lose in my opinion.

[quote name='greatmagnus' timestamp='1289439258' post='2509841'] Extortion. Now THERES a fun word. 15m/250tech is chump change and everyone here knows it. [b]1 nation could easily send that out and recover from it within a few weeks[/b]. (Counting tech. The money would take a day.) This is not "unprecedented extortion" in any way, shape, or form. It is a minuscule amount (As admitted by RV himself) and people need to get over it. Now it probably could have been handled better but this is not a bigger alliance making a smaller alliance give it everything it has, its a alliance who had some large nations have a cycle messed up because a member of a smaller alliance decided to scoop the money and run. So we tried to get some reps for lost revenue (Which are admitted to be small) and here we are after RV decided that even though the reps were "chump change" that he should raise a massive stink about paying them. [/quote] Not every nation.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1289338461' post='2508501'] The initial terms offered to both NPO and TOP were considerably higher than those ultimately agreed to. [/quote] The Great Patriotic War as well.

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289311772' post='2507973'] Ironically you probably would have come off looking better if you had actually tried to secure a better outcome for your alliance rather than stringing Pip and Yev along to juice things up for the peanut gallery. Sorry but the second you stopped talking with them in good faith and started trying to make the logs juicier you basically lost any plausible deniability you might have had. [/quote] Sorry, but there were never any good faith talks between RV and MK. The attempt at good faith from NSO came earlier when members of government attempted to negotiate and were told no. When RV entered the posted talks it was already established that MK would accept no negotiation.

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289302788' post='2507892'] You shouldn't pay because MKers have already said [size="1"](lied)[/size] about that they have no intention of rolling the NSO. Here, let's use MKer logic: They asked for an extortiating amount. They say it's silly to refuse the funds if NSO agreed to pay it. Now... MK says they will not and have no intention of rolling NSO. Using their own argument, if NSO is not to be rolled then it would be silly for NSO to go ahead and pay this extortiating amount. [/quote] You are right, it would be silly. I hate it when people do silly things.